The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → We're meeting this weekend to discuss next years racing budget..
Stop feeding the troll everyone.
But it's become so much more entertaining since I started reading him in the voice of Cartman of South Park.
gielamonster wrote:Stop feeding the troll everyone.
No kidding. From what I've seen in several threads, he seems to love arguing over established rules, talking down to people who question him, and overall making a mountain out of the mole hill that is crap can racing.
But I'm not hating. If he wants to spend $20K on a twin turbo E85 V12 Jag, let him. I'd say that's impressive as hell, but I want to be at BS inspection to watch the hi-jinks unfold.
Cue lengthy response with weird indentations.
Just an FYI, we already went through this same exact sequence on the CC forum several months ago. I have no problem with omguar, but just wanted to let you know that this is his MO and this thread will go on and on and on...
T-Money645 wrote:My first time team built and raced our car for under $3000 total. That includes rented and borrowed safety gear, all fuel, and lodging for most of the team. This game can be "cheap" if you really try. Granted, our car did blow up right away, but there were a lot cars that did that regardless of budget.
I think the point this guy's making is that he wants to do it as painlessly as possible. He's an older person, with more than likely a larger amount of money to work with.
If he and his friends can afford it, I say go for it.
Just remermber that it's a claiming race and that 5000 Brembo package could look nice on Jay's small block powered project., not to mention the wheel/ tire package.
Well I'm as cheap as the next person maybe cheaper..
I think everybody also missed the part where I'll find all the deals I can.. There is a stock car racers swap meet in Feb. near here..
good source for a lot of stuff, then craigslist etc.. Used set of racing claipers sells for about $100 a corner usually with rotors and hats.. Jay wants to pay us $500 for them, well that simply means I need to buy him a set too!
ask him to send the money! 
The motorhome rental? Not my idea. They want it..
The gas I'm buying? I'm doing that because gas at the race track is always more expensive than the discount gas stations. save 30-40 cents a gallon? Check the web sites for cheap gas locally and won't have to haul it all that far! Otherwise I can save big time using ethanol..
Actually The Brakes on the Jag were state of the art 34 years ago.. Today it would be like racing at Daytona with drum brakes.. Likely to melt down mid race. racing stuff is a lot cheaper than trying to live with stuff that won't do the job
With regard rims. Watch Craigslist, check the local tire stores used rims sell cheap.. Corvette rims happen to fit the Jag so that's what we'll use..Used Corvette take offs..
Nah! there is no chance at all of winning the event.. not with that big thirsty old jag.. so we're simply doing it for fun..
Might enter Nolio contrendre, except then they won't giving me penalty laps.. won't be able to set the record for most penalty laps in a single race..
I'll bring a nice neat clean car which I'm sure will warrant a lot of BS laps not because it's cheating but simply because it's nice and neat. Then I'll dare the judges to double them and once they do, double dare them.. Finally I'll bribe them to give me even more..
Who Cares?
I can't win.. I'm only there to have fun so I may as well try to do something noteworthy! :0=)
LTDScott wrote:gielamonster wrote:Stop feeding the troll everyone.
No kidding. From what I've seen in several threads, he seems to love arguing over established rules, talking down to people who question him, and overall making a mountain out of the mole hill that is crap can racing.
But I'm not hating. If he wants to spend $20K on a twin turbo E85 V12 Jag, let him. I'd say that's impressive as hell, but I want to be at BS inspection to watch the hi-jinks unfold.
Cue lengthy response with weird indentations.
Just an FYI, we already went through this same exact sequence on the CC forum several months ago. I have no problem with omguar, but just wanted to let you know that this is his MO and this thread will go on and on and on...
You seem to think BS laps would matter.
The car can't win.. Not as thirsty as it will be.. so who cares how many I get? I'm only doing this for the fun..
If I wanted to win it wouldn't be with a 34 year old thirsty heavy unreliable car!
I'd get something that would slide in under the radar and quietly go ahead and win..
By the way.
your math is wrong.. the car was free (and 2 spares) $20,000 is what other members propose to spend Me? I'm as cheap as the next person maybe cheaper.. I darn sure wouldn't rent a motorhome.. but if it's there I'll sleep in it..
My first time team built and raced our car for under $3000 total. That includes rented and borrowed safety gear, all fuel, and lodging for most of the team. This game can be "cheap" if you really try. Granted, our car did blow up right away, but there were a lot cars that did that regardless of budget.
Sorry your car blew up right away.. I know what a bummer that can be.. however think of the money that saved you..
You failed to mention food, the cost of getting to and from the track, or gas for your race car (if it had finished the whole event) you didn't list your entry fees or drivers fees nor list your Lemons licenses.. etc.
Do you think you could have won if you hadn't blown up right away? I know I can't! Jags too thirsty.. doesn't stand a chance even if it was the fastst most reliable car out there..
I used to fool myself about what racing costs. If this was only my deal I would never make a list like this.. However with 3 other guys involved I can't just hit them blind can I? Nor can I make assumptions based on deals that might or might not happen..
Hopefully things will be a lot less.. So you race with a differant attitude.. you're only there for the fun!
Several people seem to be so upset because they imagine the car will be fast enough that penalty laps will matter.. 
40 years ago when I started racing, entry fee was $15.00. Gas to and from the track didn't cost $20.00 each way. I slept in a sleeping bag and ate hot dogs and beans cooked over a fire.. I spent less than $100 a weekend..
I borrowed all the safety gear including suit, helmet, seat belts, and fire extinguisher..
IT was fun 40 years ago
Things get differant as you age..
I can't afford a motor home but if they want to rent one that's where I'll sleep..
I own my safety gear but they need to buy it.. In fact one guy plans on buying top of the line stuff. (he figures he's worth the best)
A couple of people have already shown me where better deals are and things I've missed..
However nobody is showing me where thousands of dollars can be saved.. a few hundred yes, maybe..
I would use cheaper used tires but they don't want to.. I think I could get a couple of sets of used tires with decent rubber for around $50.00 each.. can't budget that way though..
MY point is that if the numbers came out to be $20,000 and instead of $20,000 it's closer to 10 Good for us! I sure wouldn't complain..
By the way.
your math is wrong.. the car was free (and 2 spares) $20,000 is what other members propose to spend Me? I'm as cheap as the next person maybe cheaper.. I darn sure wouldn't rent a motorhome.. but if it's there I'll sleep in it..
You need a better class of teammate. We built a car almost from scratch, upgraded, brakes, engine, transmission, steering...etc etc etc. We camped in an RV and partied like rockstars. We did 3 events, Lemons, BABE rally and GRM challenge and all totalled I doubt we spent even close to 1/2 your budget.
Dont blame the Jag either, our car had even less parts support by far, hell starting with a jag would be easy. I assure you we could start with an XJ whatever and come in under 5k and be competitive not just coming along for the show.
OMGuar wrote:By the way.
your math is wrong.. the car was free (and 2 spares) $20,000 is what other members propose to spend Me? I'm as cheap as the next person maybe cheaper.. I darn sure wouldn't rent a motorhome.. but if it's there I'll sleep in it..You need a better class of teammate. We built a car almost from scratch, upgraded, brakes, engine, transmission, steering...etc etc etc. We camped in an RV and partied like rockstars. We did 3 events, Lemons, BABE rally and GRM challenge and all totalled I doubt we spent even close to 1/2 your budget.
Dont blame the Jag either, our car had even less parts support by far, hell starting with a jag would be easy. I assure you we could start with an XJ whatever and come in under 5k and be competitive not just coming along for the show.
OK I'll ask you, where would you save money?
, Fair enough. are you saying that you could somehow make an XJ-S competitive with a $5000 budget?
Please tell me how!
I honestly want to know..
Same deal though.. 4 guys, One guy really big.. so a large seat is required.. 1000 miles round trip. 24 hour weekend.
Jaguar XJ-S V12 (even runs well) Assume it looks nice and runs well. I'll even do the theme stuff.
Everything needs to be realistic and not a maybe or a lucky find..
If you use a used something you have to list the price of it new.
I'll be happy to provide you with any specs or measurements you'll need..
I'll be extremely greatful if you do show me where I'm wrong..
Plus buy you a really nice dinner following the race!
OMGuar wrote:Lemonious Monk wrote:I quoted Auto Zone prices but it's your cash, spend it as you see fit.
Have you priced racing pads for Jaguars using the stock caliper?
They make them in England and by the time you get them here, pay shipping,& import duty it's cheaper to use good stuff up front.....or you could call up carbotech, raybestos, or porterfield, and get a set of race compound pads mated to your backplates for $200 a set, give or take.
That's a good idea,
Do you think they sell seals etc.. that will also withstand the heat generated by a heavy fast car with 34 year old brakes?
That's a serious question.. because if they will, that's the route I'll take.
I just expect that a heavy car will quickly get the rotors glowing red hot! 1500 degrees or so.
Replacing Jaguar brakes is an extremely slow process, Jaguar requires the hubs to be removed to pull off broken/warped rotors. They don't slide on and off like modern cars..
Two words - Weight Reduction. You keep talking about how heavy the car is, yet you want to run huge brakes, big wheels, wide tires, etc. Remove every ounce of weight you can and then you can get away with the stock brakes (with race fluid and race pads), normal tires, and cheap wheels.
$3985 8 mounted/balanced new tires325x30x19
Oooh, 19's cool. Awesome. +1, no +10!!!
food @ $25/head (My girlfriend has organized a chow-line and does the Costco and loss-leader shopping at supermarkets. At $25/ea she makes enough to cover her expenses and get paid enough to buy Jay's expensive Tee's a book or two to read at the track, etc. She's now got 22head to cook for!)
Oooh, We are pitting next to you next race. We'll bring more corn.!!
JThw8 wrote:OMGuar wrote:By the way.
your math is wrong.. the car was free (and 2 spares) $20,000 is what other members propose to spend Me? I'm as cheap as the next person maybe cheaper.. I darn sure wouldn't rent a motorhome.. but if it's there I'll sleep in it..You need a better class of teammate. We built a car almost from scratch, upgraded, brakes, engine, transmission, steering...etc etc etc. We camped in an RV and partied like rockstars. We did 3 events, Lemons, BABE rally and GRM challenge and all totalled I doubt we spent even close to 1/2 your budget.
Dont blame the Jag either, our car had even less parts support by far, hell starting with a jag would be easy. I assure you we could start with an XJ whatever and come in under 5k and be competitive not just coming along for the show.
OK I'll ask you, where would you save money?
, Fair enough. are you saying that you could somehow make an XJ-S competitive with a $5000 budget?
Please tell me how!
I honestly want to know..
Same deal though.. 4 guys, One guy really big.. so a large seat is required.. 1000 miles round trip. 24 hour weekend.
Jaguar XJ-S V12 (even runs well) Assume it looks nice and runs well. I'll even do the theme stuff.
Everything needs to be realistic and not a maybe or a lucky find..
If you use a used something you have to list the price of it new.
I'll be happy to provide you with any specs or measurements you'll need..
I'll be extremely greatful if you do show me where I'm wrong..
Plus buy you a really nice dinner following the race!
Well I'd need time to sit down and map out a strategy since we are just theoretically racing right now. But if you haven't looked at our build and story on the Wartburg I suggest you pop over to that section of the site for a minute. Could I make and XJS competitive for less than 5k, I made and east german, noone ever heard of it, no parts available car competitve for less than 2k. We took a car that had ZERO parts support in the US, that noone had ever really modified properly for racing in the past and built it out of spare parts and hard labor. Even going before the GRM judging which is much harder on budgets and doesnt leave all the room for safety equipment that Lemons does we came in well under $1500 for the entire build. I have no doubt I could make an XJS at least a mid pack, make the finish, car for under 5k, well under 5k. I helped a team prep an XJS for BABE this year that completed the 3000 mile round trip (sorry guys I still contend BABE is a bigger test of car and intestinal fortitude) for under the $500 mark. XJS has available parts cars, wartburg does not, XJS has available parts at the autozone, Wartburg does not. Unlike some others here I dont think of you or treat you as a troll, but I do think you've been involved in high dollar racing so long you (and/or your teammates) have lost sight of budget racing. For your entire budget for an RV rental I could buy a shitty but functional RV and pay for its gas. There are finds out there if you hunt, heck for the next car we just bought a brand new, 22 gallon ATL fuel cell for $300, yep that's a steal, but those are out there if you take your time and hunt for them. If you want to spend 20k to go race with the crapcans then god bless you, all I am saying is I know you dont HAVE to.
Im on a self imposed 1 year sabbatical from motorsports, but come this time next year if you think Im still full of crap then throw down the gauntlet and I KNOW my team will pick it up and be happy to run an XJS against yours for under 5k total costs and easily hang with your 20k effort.
$ 409 Fire bottle
LOL.
Crapcans have a bad habit of actually reaching into your pocket and removing cash when you aren't looking.
it was the car? guess i owe Kurt an apology. 
jag vs jag challenge? does that make it.... a cat fight?
(sorry guys I still contend BABE is a bigger test of car and intestinal fortitude)
Intestinal, yes. But I've got to think 900 miles of WOT-brake-WOT-brake-WOT-break [sic] is more taxing on the mechanical bits. For instance, I bet the Craptation would have made the BABE trek with no issues. As it was we ate two wheel bearings, four sets of front brake pads, and a caliper. The difference is that at BABE you don't have a crew of six guys, all your tools, and a pit stall to fix the thing in.
you 2 kittens need to invite the Pendejo Jag XJS along for a 3-way battle of the biggest pussy.
heck I might be tempted to put one together too. there's one near me for $600 clams.
JThw8 wrote:(sorry guys I still contend BABE is a bigger test of car and intestinal fortitude)
The difference is that at BABE you don't have a crew of six guys, all your tools, and a pit stall to fix the thing in.
And that's a huuuuge difference. Also its not like the cars are loafing along the highway (although that alone is taxing on some heaps) there are some great backroad treks and the tail of the dragon to run which put a hurt on a car.
I think one of my teammates summed it up best when Jay asked how we could be so calm in the middle of a head gasket change. He told him, we've got a place to sleep (RV) all of our tools, a reliable parts chaser, a trailer and we dont have to get anywhere by the end of the night.
Imagine going through some of the trials and tribulations you do with your Lemons car, now remove the support vehicles, the full tool compliment, easy access to parts and put it all on the side of the road with a destination you have to reach by the end of the day.
Not taking anything away from Lemons, it is great fun But you'll never catch us stressing in the paddock, its just too luxurious
you 2 kittens need to invite the Pendejo Jag XJS along for a 3-way battle of the biggest pussy.
heck I might be tempted to put one together too. there's one near me for $600 clams.
Ooooh, all Jag Lemons shootout....now we're talkin!
Two words - Weight Reduction. You keep talking about how heavy the car is, yet you want to run huge brakes, big wheels, wide tires, etc. Remove every ounce of weight you can and then you can get away with the stock brakes (with race fluid and race pads), normal tires, and cheap wheels.
It's not the weight anyway that makes it uncompetitive. It's the 8-11 MPG driving normally, compared to most of the competitors who get 30-40 MPG under the same considitions. That means I'll stop 3 times to their one.. Can't make up that differance on the race track.. even if I could it would be too dangerous to be allowed..
As for weight removal That's a given.. it doesn't cost anything to remove weight. (plus once removed will never break down or cause problems), however there is a law of deminishing returns.. My buddies XJ-S V12 Track car weighs over 3000#'s and it's about as gutted as possible.
The engine alone ( even though it's all aluminum) weighs 720 pounds.. add the transmission and etc.. and that's more than a thousand pounds on the nose.. the rear end is very heavy because it's an IRS unit. Same basic unit used in 427 Cobras so it's stout!,
it's a full subframe right out of the XJ12 sedan Same with the front suspension Right out of Jagaurs heaviest sedans Same with the floor pan.. it's from the XJ-12 sedan only with a shortened pan it's also interchangeable with the XJ12 sedan so it has to be heavy.
Then the roll cage with side impact bars
MY goal will be 2500#'s but likely will wind up above that by hundreds of pounds..
I'd thought of making carbon fiber fenders, doors, hood, and trunklid because I can do it myself and it's pretty cheap if you do a wet layup with expired carbon fibre. (May not be suitable to fix your airplane but works nice on race car parts).. On my XK-E V12 the stock bonnet weighs nearly 200 pounds the one I made weighed 33 pounds.. (and it's stronger) I could save an additional 20% if I vacum bagged it.
You'd be surprised at how heavy those parts are on an XJ-S
It just doesn't seem proper.. even if legal.
As for heavy brakes? toss the stock parts on a scale and then toss racing parts on the same scale! They are lighter! (aluminum versis Cast Iron calipers). Same diameter rotors but racing rotors have holes drilled and grooves cut into them.. again lighter.
If you can get anywhere NEAR 2500 lbs you should have no need for the tires and brakes you spec'd. Our 260Z weighs over 2500 in race trim and we run with stock 10.8" non-vented front rotors, stock rear drums, and 195/60R14 tires. Our brakes work great with no fade for an entire race and we get multiple races from our RT615 tires and Porterfield brake linings.
I know you will make a really cool car and it should be fast, but I really think you are wasting money and overthinking everything. This is crapcan racing, not F1.
Or, you could just go ahead and build the car, then bring it to the track and amaze us all. Really, you don't need anyone's permission to do that. I'm just sayin'...
Im on a self imposed 1 year sabbatical from motorsports, but come this time next year if you think Im still full of crap then throw down the gauntlet and I KNOW my team will pick it up and be happy to run an XJS against yours for under 5k total costs and easily hang with your 20k effort.
I'm ready as soon as your sabbatical ends. I'm sure we could do it.
OMGuar wrote:JThw8 wrote:You need a better class of teammate. We built a car almost from scratch, upgraded, brakes, engine, transmission, steering...etc etc etc. We camped in an RV and partied like rockstars. We did 3 events, Lemons, BABE rally and GRM challenge and all totalled I doubt we spent even close to 1/2 your budget.
Dont blame the Jag either, our car had even less parts support by far, hell starting with a jag would be easy. I assure you we could start with an XJ whatever and come in under 5k and be competitive not just coming along for the show.
OK I'll ask you, where would you save money?
, Fair enough. are you saying that you could somehow make an XJ-S competitive with a $5000 budget?
Please tell me how!
I honestly want to know..
Same deal though.. 4 guys, One guy really big.. so a large seat is required.. 1000 miles round trip. 24 hour weekend.
Jaguar XJ-S V12 (even runs well) Assume it looks nice and runs well. I'll even do the theme stuff.
Everything needs to be realistic and not a maybe or a lucky find..
If you use a used something you have to list the price of it new.
I'll be happy to provide you with any specs or measurements you'll need..
I'll be extremely greatful if you do show me where I'm wrong..
Plus buy you a really nice dinner following the race!Well I'd need time to sit down and map out a strategy since we are just theoretically racing right now. But if you haven't looked at our build and story on the Wartburg I suggest you pop over to that section of the site for a minute. Could I make and XJS competitive for less than 5k, I made and east german, noone ever heard of it, no parts available car competitve for less than 2k. We took a car that had ZERO parts support in the US, that noone had ever really modified properly for racing in the past and built it out of spare parts and hard labor. Even going before the GRM judging which is much harder on budgets and doesnt leave all the room for safety equipment that Lemons does we came in well under $1500 for the entire build. I have no doubt I could make an XJS at least a mid pack, make the finish, car for under 5k, well under 5k. I helped a team prep an XJS for BABE this year that completed the 3000 mile round trip (sorry guys I still contend BABE is a bigger test of car and intestinal fortitude) for under the $500 mark. XJS has available parts cars, wartburg does not, XJS has available parts at the autozone, Wartburg does not. Unlike some others here I dont think of you or treat you as a troll, but I do think you've been involved in high dollar racing so long you (and/or your teammates) have lost sight of budget racing. For your entire budget for an RV rental I could buy a shitty but functional RV and pay for its gas. There are finds out there if you hunt, heck for the next car we just bought a brand new, 22 gallon ATL fuel cell for $300, yep that's a steal, but those are out there if you take your time and hunt for them. If you want to spend 20k to go race with the crapcans then god bless you, all I am saying is I know you dont HAVE to.
Im on a self imposed 1 year sabbatical from motorsports, but come this time next year if you think Im still full of crap then throw down the gauntlet and I KNOW my team will pick it up and be happy to run an XJS against yours for under 5k total costs and easily hang with your 20k effort.
I'm not going to tell you you can't. Because in my youth I did what most considered impossible..
I will tell you your biggest handicap.. Fuel Mileage..
The thirsty Jag will need to stop for fuel 3 times to 1 You could make a whale of a fast car and it would be wasted getting gas in the pits..
Some of the brightest engineers in the world tried to improve the mileage .. They eventually came up with the Mays head (Called HE engine by Jaguar)
However that engine used in racing conditions will blow head gaskets.. All of the factory efforts went back to the earlier flat head engine.
Yes there is plenty of parts support available for Jaguars. But what can you do within the $500 allowance? Show up with the stuff that will make a improvement (handling stuff instead of the soft boulavard ride it features) and you'll get dinged for penalty laps.
Power increases come really easy, you can get up to 312 HP stock. A little minor tuning stuff (adjustments only no parts) will yield another 50HP. An additional 150 easy horsepower can be had for $235.00 with ghetto charging. IF you are carefull 300 horsepower is possible for the same cost.. total? 600 horsepower.. There are plenty of transmission options. (most of which I have in the shop) 4-5 speeds even 6 speed.
I even have a double throw down balls out racing 5 speed. Dog rings instead of syncros No clutch shifting so it's insanely fast, PLus it's like a quick change rear end.. pull off the back plate.. slide out the old gears and slide in the correct new ones. maybe 10 minutes including refilling time. That will allow you to come out of any corner in exactly the right gear. The important thing is, it's not an over drive. the T5 &T56 are both overdrive transmissions. WE don't run on a track big enough for overdrive.
The weight can be reduced to under 3000Pounds by using my carbon fiber parts.. (even more with a (legal) trick I prefer to reserve)
But so what? 3 to1 pit stops! How fast would you have to go in a 24 hour race to make up an extra 24 pit stops? =)
When our XJ6 was on the track and cool enough to put the pedal down, it was pretty competitive. Your two big issues are brakes and reliability. At 4000lbs we could out-brake most of the cars on the track, we were mid-pack on cornering, and we were able to outrun a lot of cars in the straights. Our problem was that we dorked our engine when we plugged the PCV to get through tech and didn't fix it for the track. I think our total budget ended up being under $3200.
$600 in brake parts - rebuild your rear calipers for sure
$10 worth of doubled-up hose clamps
$10 worth of hardware to make a lift-off hood
$280 front-end rebuild kit (it's safely when your balljoints allow 1/4" of play in the front wheels)
$300 rollcage if you're building it yourself
$500 misc safety gear
That's just my take, YMMV.
If you can get anywhere NEAR 2500 lbs you should have no need for the tires and brakes you spec'd. Our 260Z weighs over 2500 in race trim and we run with stock 10.8" non-vented front rotors, stock rear drums, and 195/60R14 tires. Our brakes work great with no fade for an entire race and we get multiple races from our RT615 tires and Porterfield brake linings.
I know you will make a really cool car and it should be fast, but I really think you are wasting money and overthinking everything. This is crapcan racing, not F1.
NO matter what we do, we can't get past that thirsty V12. We'll stop for gas 3 to 1 So NO matter how fast, that time can't be made up.. So we won't win, can't! even with zero BS laps and the fastest car ever to run in a crapcan race.. So we're going to run for fun!
Yes we do have 30-40 years on most racers so I can understand it when they want a Motorhome. It's hard sleeping on the ground in a sleeping bag at 62. Personally I could sleep in the back of an SUV or something but what the heck, they're paying for it..
To get that heavy beast down to 2500pounds I'd have to make carbon fiber parts. I can do it for a couple of hundred dollars (used expired carbon fibre that won't pass FAA spec but it's fine on a wet hand layup.) wanna save an additional 20%? Vacum bag it.. Since it's expired I wouldn't trust it in an autoclave to save another 25% (as if I had access to one anymore)
Not sure that's within the spirit of Lemons racing.. I'm certain that would add even more to the total BS laps..
By the way your Datsun likely had the advantage of a manual transmission. Automatics put an additional load on brakes.
However there is a lot of cheap stock car stuff around here used.. I can likely get a whole Wilwood brake setup here for about $100 a corner. (That's what I sold a set for last year) At that price it doesn't make sense to use stock stuff.
I already has a set of 51x10 rims that are lighter than stock.. Tires for those rims are about $100 each brand new from tire rack.. However one of the drivers has these 19 inch rims and wants to buy new tires for them.. What would you do?
I can't put it in the budget because it's not a sure thing.. Besides we're talking a few hundred dollars..
IN fact I'll buy whatever I can at swap meets and craigslist. So exactly how much should I budget for savings? a few hundred, maybe a little more? Not the 10 or $15,000 some seem to want to claim.
Someone showed me a new kill switch that saves $35.00 new. However someone else pointed out I failed to include a pit fire distinguisher and dump cans.. So I saved $35 and need to increase the budget? (Haven't even gone looking yet)
Bottom line? all racing is expensive, I can budget less and risk coming up short or I can budget over and have extra in the budget.. , maybe even enough for another race?
The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → We're meeting this weekend to discuss next years racing budget..