Topic: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

Judging by what I have seen of Lemons style so far, this may be a dumb question, but...

Lets say I had one of Bill Auberlen's old BMW PTG race suits.  Its a Stand 21 multilayer in good shape, but I cant find the actual SFI rating. It has an FIA standard embroidered on the neck, but I haven't been able to decipher it.   Will it pass tech for the race?  Logically, I think it is a heck of allot better quality than a bottom end range 2 layer of a lesser brand.  Not to mention the fact that it actually fits me comfortably.

I do have a full set of nomex underwear that is just a couple years old to team with it, so I not too worried about the level of protection. I just don't want to show up and be SOL for a suit.

I also have a single layer "crew" suit from the same PTG team era.  It would be significantly cooler to wear with the long underwear, but I haven't found any rating or FIA labeling on it.  It definitely has a layer of nomex on the inside. 

And lastly, I don't know if our belt/seat configuration will support it yet, but does anyone use a HANS at these events rather than a simple neck roll? 

Thanks in advance.

2 (edited by Mulry 2009-08-09 04:10 PM)

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

In regard to the fire suit, it has typically been the case that the suit will need to bear identification that it passes one of the applicable standards. The tech guys can't do a qualitative analysis on each suit that passes before them, so to keep it simple, it needs to be decipherable either as passing the FIA standard or the SFI one. I suspect that if you show up with that suit and your nomex, you will be SOL unless it is clear by the label sewn to the suit that the suit meets the published standard. This part of tech seems to be as much about satisfying the insurance policy requirements as it does comfort or safety of the drivers.

HANS devices are certainly acceptable at Lemons. Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

It is hard to miss the FIA rating.  Its right on the neck of the suit in big black and gold.  "Norme 1986/ 1986 Standard".  I guess my question should be, is that rating going to be recognized as equivalent or better. 

It is my understanding the FIA rating would be superior to all but the higher SFI ratings, but it doesn't do me any good unless it will pass Lemons Tech.

I checked some other rules online, and it appears to pass NASA and BMWCCA. 

I also found an SCCA thread with the exact same question here.
http://www.apexspeed.com/forums/showthread.php?p=196906

NASA requires the following:

"15.17.1 Driving Suits
A driver is required to wear a suit that covers his or her entire body except for hands,
feet, and head. Driving suits shall be one piece carrying an SFI 3.2A/1 rating or higher
(3.2A/5, 3.2A/10, 3.2A/15, or 3.2A/20) or FIA 8856-2000, FIA NORME 1986/1986. FIA
8856-1986.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

I think you should call Jay to see what he says.

Don't know if Stand would do this, but I had a Simpson suit that didn't have any SFI tags. Called Simpson, they said to send it in and if it was OK they would put tags on it. I sent it in and it passed, cost $40.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

I sent an email to Nick and Jay with a picture of the tag.

I am fairly certain the suit cost over $2000 new, and I really like the way it fits me compared to some other cheaper ones I have tried. It just seems kind of silly to have to replace it with a $200 one.

Now that I think about it, the new retail cost of my suit, helmet, and HANS would buy six or seven Lemons cars. :-)

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

sergio wrote:

Don't know if Stand would do this, but I had a Simpson suit that didn't have any SFI tags. Called Simpson, they said to send it in and if it was OK they would put tags on it. I sent it in and it passed, cost $40.

I need to do the same.  My Simpson suit has no SFI tag on the outside, but the inner tag says it meets the requirements of NASCAR, CART, SFI, FIA, etc, etc.  It is a lightly used CART suit and is obviously a quality SFI compliant suit, it just doesn't have the tag for some reason.

Do you have a phone number at Simpson that you called ?

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

310-539-2266  I think that's the number I called. I told them what I needed and they transfered me to the right department. I sent them the suit, they called about a week later to get a credit card number and I got the suit back with tags on.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

FIA suits have been added and removed from the rules.  I don't know if they are currently in the rules.

The problems was with verifying compliance/equivalence to SFI.

Jay commented in this before, maybe on Yahoo.

For a definite answer email Jay and/or Nick.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

The current rules allow for FIA-certified suits, but only if they meet the FIA 8856-2000 certification. My understanding is that the FIA 8856-2000 certification replaced the 1986 certification, so you'd definitely want to check with Jay and Nick on this. Good luck and please report back your results so that somebody else in the future with this same question can find the answer by searching the forum. Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

sergio wrote:

310-539-2266  I think that's the number I called. I told them what I needed and they transfered me to the right department. I sent them the suit, they called about a week later to get a credit card number and I got the suit back with tags on.

I did the same, although they only charged me $25.  I had the suit back within 4 days of sending it in (granted they are in Cali and I am in Oregon)

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

Close but no cigar.  Jay said it wasn't new enough for their insurance. FIA 2000 will pass, but not the Norme 1986.  I guess pseudo Bill Auberlen won't make it this time. 

Still seems a shame to have to buy a lower quality suit to pass tech, but oh well.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

Mulry wrote:

The current rules allow for FIA-certified suits, but only if they meet the FIA 8856-2000 certification. My understanding is that the FIA 8856-2000 certification replaced the 1986 certification, so you'd definitely want to check with Jay and Nick on this. Good luck and please report back your results so that somebody else in the future with this same question can find the answer by searching the forum. Cheers.

Yes, the FIA 8856-2000 cert is the one we need. And Chris, to answer your HANS device question, we are seeing more and more of them at races. For some reason the Texas races see a lot of HANSs--a good third of the drivers seem to have them. Money no object, I'd recommend one.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVyRQgvOQQ

Here's a good reason to use a HANS.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

It would be great if someone made a cheaper version....maybe aluminum or plastic instead of CF

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

jimeditorial wrote:

It would be great if someone made a cheaper version....maybe aluminum or plastic instead of CF

There is a "Sport" model which doesn't look like it's carbon fiber. It's a little cheaper, but still expensive:

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/store/trac … hans-sport

Near-Orbital Space Monkeys
#528 BMW 528e 121hp Black "Saturn 5" Rocket car with orange foam flames. Sold.
#71 Yellow Fox Mustang. For sale.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

sergio wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVyRQgvOQQ

Here's a good reason to use a HANS.

WOW. I can't imagine going through that with the back problems he's enduring and then being able to walk away from the car.

I know that they say that helmets and belts and seats are all trashed after just one wreck, I wonder if that's true for HANS devices too. Anybody know?

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

Mulry wrote:
sergio wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVyRQgvOQQ

Here's a good reason to use a HANS.

WOW. I can't imagine going through that with the back problems he's enduring and then being able to walk away from the car.

I know that they say that helmets and belts and seats are all trashed after just one wreck, I wonder if that's true for HANS devices too. Anybody know?

With any composite it depends on the severity of the impact. With high budget teams they just throw it away and buy another but you can send the Hans Device or any composite helmet off you be inspected via NDI (non-destructive inspection). They generally use ultrasound, x-ray and sometimes dye inspections to find minute cracks and damages in the piece. The engineer will then make a call if the piece is safe or scrap.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Yet another fire suit and safety gear question.

All I want to know is why Jeff Gordon does the robot 20 seconds in.

1978 AMC Pacer - The Blue Flag Special
BFE GP '12 - IOE
BFE GP '13 - Co-Organizer's Choice w/ Speed Holes Wrenching