1 (edited by Jer 2009-05-18 02:26 PM)

Topic: exhaust rules changes

I wanted to pre-screen our exhausts before these cars see the track again. 

Schumacher Taxi CoROLLa has a cherry bomb under the middle of the car, but the exhaust pipe pointing diagonally out under the passenger door.  It reaches all the way to the edge of the door.  It is professionally hung and solid.

Schumacher Taxi Craptation has a can with an exit pipe pointing down, right in the middle of the car.  It's not turned in any direction except down.  It is porfessionally hung but doesn't exit out the back or sides.  The gas tank is about three feet behind where the pipe turns down

Is either one illegal under the rules?  Thanks for your help in advance, just trying to avoid issues later.

And what is defined in the rules as the "collector" in an exhaust system?  Is that the can or is that simply the point where the header pipes come together?

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: exhaust rules changes

Good question. I was thinking the same thing but on my Golf. Wondering if a turned down exhaust is legal. From the rule, you just cant have the exhaust pointing at the rank, right?

Team Victors of War (those idiots in the wife-beaters and white pants)

Re: exhaust rules changes

WINWAR wrote:

Good question. I was thinking the same thing but on my Golf. Wondering if a turned down exhaust is legal. From the rule, you just cant have the exhaust pointing at the rank, right?

Another post by LemonsHQ has indicated that another goal of the rule is to not asphyxiate the driver.

We were looking at a turn-down as well, but I'm guessing that the "no driver asphyxiation" portion of the rule would disallow it.  In a long red-flag period, gases could seep through holes in the floor and get into the driver compartment.

However, this is just my own opinion, and I eagerly await a ruling.

Car to Pit telemetry (OBD2, GPS, and analog inputs) with little more than a phone, router, and laptop.  It's not MacGuyver, it's WifiLapper (forum | facebook)

Re: exhaust rules changes

To answer Jer's question--the Taxi Corolla with the side-exit is cool, but the turn-down on the Craptation probably isn't.

Here's the thing about dumping the exhaust in front of the tank--regardless of how far away the pipe is, there's still a good chance that it'll create a pocket of hot air in front of the tank.

It doesn't take much to boil gasoline--in fact, the first time we saw this at Lemons, the gas boiled and created a spill out the filler. How the car didn't catch on fire from either the boiling gas or the spill is a minor miracle.

Racing creates way higher exhaust temps than street use. I have a BMW 2002 that has a pipe that runs right by the tank--a factory location--and the car hasn't exploded in 30+ years of service. Switching gears to the Lemons, and I've seen gas boil in 15 minutes of racing, with a pipe that further from the tank that it is in my BMW.

Imagine holding your hand three feet behind a pipe--even a turn down--and it's pretty easy to picture things getting uncomfortable after extended periods of high-rpm operation. What's hot enough to make your skin uncomfortable is too hot to be anywhere near gasoline.

Driver asphyxiation is another concern--but if the pipe exits aft of the driver's head, it's probably OK.

Bottom line--if you're already going to all the trouble of making a turn-down, why not spend an extra 15 minutes running the pipe out to the side? Believe me, if you had seen the giant frickin' fireball at CMP that led to this rule, you'd consider it time well spent.

Re: exhaust rules changes

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/BurningKudzuKommandos-804px.jpg

Re: exhaust rules changes

Hmm, I guess that means our current exhaust needs to be changed.

http://www.ltdlx.org/albums/workday420/IMG_2114.jpg

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: exhaust rules changes

Love the cherry bombs.  We are running 1967 vintage cherry bombs I got with a 65 Fury cop car I bought a couple of years ago.  Thing was awesome, it was a 67 vintage hot rod that was parked in 79.  I sold it a couple of months ago and since the car originally had a 3.23 open pumpkin in it and the old guy I bought it from said it had a 3.91 sure grip I decided to change the gears.  I pulled them out to find it had 4.88 gears!  A 440 powered 4.88 geared C-Body, I think he built it before I-5 was done because it couldn't have been much of a freeway car.

Team Oly Express
Current car - 1964.5 Plymouth Barracuda, Former car - Size Does Matter 1967 Plymouth Fury
07 IOE Winner Thunderhill, 12 IOE Winner Sears Pointless
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Team- … 4609354407

Re: exhaust rules changes

I have the entire Corvair Exhaust System installed back to factory standards. I had to find a couple of decent exhaust manifolds, as they were pretty rusty, and I couldn't clamp any pipes to them. I had a muffler shop make up a set of pipes from the manufolds, into a "Y" pipe (as per the Corvair Factory Shop Manual I have), and into a stock looking muffler. The muffler that was on the car was still looked brand new, with a silver galvanized coating! It's now nice and quiet, though being sort of a factory job, I'm sure it's chocking any power I might have had by changing the plugs, wires, and ignition coil!

Re: exhaust rules changes

Thanks, Nick, that is also what we were thinking.  We will extend the exhaust pipe on the Citation.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: exhaust rules changes

I guess we will have to do the same. Out the side it is I guess.

How about the noise level. We have a 1.8L 4 banger. I was thinking a cherry bomb with no cat and (now) side exit. Will that be quiet enough? Do they test it from any particular side of the car?

Team Victors of War (those idiots in the wife-beaters and white pants)

Re: exhaust rules changes

Don't forget about vortices sucking exhaust fumes into the car from the rear or the side...especially in hatchbacks without the rear glass.

Josh Poage
Poage Ma Thoin Racing - 1981 Fiat Brava #09 - 2009 Yee-haw It's Texas
Prison Break Racing - 1986 325e #27 - 2010 Gator-o-Rama
Poage Ma Thoin Racing - 1981 Fiat Brava #09 - 2011 Heaps in the Heart of Texas

12

Re: exhaust rules changes

kalpol wrote:

Don't forget about vortices sucking exhaust fumes into the car from the rear or the side...especially in hatchbacks without the rear glass.

So Kalpol-you're saying rear or side exiting exhausts could be an issue----where exactly do YOU recommend the exhaust exiting?  An 18 wheeler pipe shooting straight up?  BWAHAHAHA

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

13

Re: exhaust rules changes

CO is no joke.

A Norcal racer suffered from CO inhalation less than a month ago at THill. He finished the race due to clouded judgement, but had to be pulled out of his car in the paddock. Here's a thread..

To finish first, first you must finish. -Rick Mears
Pandamonium Racing

Re: exhaust rules changes

So....where or what is a good exhaust setup then for a hatch? Not running glass as we arent allowed.
I remember driving my buddies Corrado with the hatch open (had two Honda Z50's stuff in there) and smelling the exhaust the entire time. Maybe the side is a better option.

Team Victors of War (those idiots in the wife-beaters and white pants)

Re: exhaust rules changes

We have our exhaust exiting just behind the right side door.  We also down turned it.
We are using a Hush Power muffler and a 12" cherry bomb.  Nobody said anything (@ T'hill) about excessive noise with this setup.  The down turn really helps in directing sound away from any sound meter right or left side of the track.  We have used down turns on our circle track cars where they really snivel about loud cars.  This is purely a Lemons rule as I believe RFR dosen't have any sound regulations.  And as Jay says, "If you have to ask..it's too loud".  I guess 13 hours of unmuffled exhaust is just too much for the Jaymob ears.
Someone mentioned extended red flag fume problems....I guess I would just have to shut the motor off...duh.

sawinatthewheel...sometimes too much, sometimes not enough...just like life

Re: exhaust rules changes

And, no, you can't rig the exhaust to blow out of the heater vents at the Arse Freeze-a-Palooza.

Re: exhaust rules changes

MurileeMartin wrote:

And, no, you can't rig the exhaust to blow out of the heater vents at the Arse Freeze-a-Palooza.

Unless of course you have a Corvair in which case that's the way the car was designed (or at least it sure seems that way when the exhaust gaskets fail).

Re: exhaust rules changes

Pujo! wrote:

Unless of course you have a Corvair in which case that's the way the car was designed (or at least it sure seems that way when the exhaust gaskets fail).

Or a Beetle.

19 (edited by Troy 2009-05-21 11:59 AM)

Re: exhaust rules changes

We have spent some time on our exhaust before any of these rules applied.  Old Z cars like our 240Z tend to have issues getting exhaust fumes into the car. 

Our exhaust ran out the back for the first race.  Initially, we were getting fumes in the car.  Some expanding foam and metal tape later and we sealed up the back enough to get the fumes down.

When my friend raced a 240Z in SCCA, he ran the exhaust out the passenger side in front of the rear tire.  That was going to be very difficult to do to the LeMon car.

So for the February race, I rerouted the exhaust out the left side behind the left rear tire.  We cut a hole in the lower quarter panel and ran the exhaust through it.  This gets the exhaust in the wind down the side of the car which is carried away or diluted more easily.

Running out the back on a hatch back, there is a low pressure system in the back of the car rolling the exhaust into the car.  This ain't good.  So I suggest running out the side if you can.  We also eliminated a 90 degree bend too.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: exhaust rules changes

Yep. I hear ya. Most VW's have their fuel accumulator and pump on the right side, right where you would route the exhaust. I guess I have to go out the left. Should be easy enough I guess.

Anyone have any idea how much muffler I need for a 1.8L 4 banger? Hopefully going to be removing the cat. Would a glass pack do it or do I need more? There isnt too much room between the downpipe and where it would exit out the side.

Team Victors of War (those idiots in the wife-beaters and white pants)

21

Re: exhaust rules changes

The Corolla has a flex pipe, a Cherry Bomb, and a straight tube out the side from there, exiting in front of the tire.  Should be perfect.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

22 (edited by Ottobon 2009-05-27 07:17 PM)

Re: exhaust rules changes

UDMan wrote:

I have the entire Corvair Exhaust System installed back to factory standards. I had to find a couple of decent exhaust manifolds, as they were pretty rusty, and I couldn't clamp any pipes to them. I had a muffler shop make up a set of pipes from the manufolds, into a "Y" pipe (as per the Corvair Factory Shop Manual I have), and into a stock looking muffler. The muffler that was on the car was still looked brand new, with a silver galvanized coating! It's now nice and quiet, though being sort of a factory job, I'm sure it's chocking any power I might have had by changing the plugs, wires, and ignition coil!

WHAT!! Wish you the best of luck, but "nice and quiet" is a complete oxymoron when talking about anything American.  I thought i knew you guys sad*** (cry)


However if their is any truth in that the Corvairs "Turbo" muffler was the origin of all turbo mufflers then i suppose you can take comfort in that fact, but still.  Quiet?!?

Re: exhaust rules changes

WINWAR wrote:

Yep. I hear ya. Most VW's have their fuel accumulator and pump on the right side, right where you would route the exhaust. I guess I have to go out the left. Should be easy enough I guess.

Anyone have any idea how much muffler I need for a 1.8L 4 banger? Hopefully going to be removing the cat. Would a glass pack do it or do I need more? There isnt too much room between the downpipe and where it would exit out the side.

Any Cherry Bomb that fits your exhaust pipes will be sufficient, especially if you put even a slight turn-down at the end of the pipe. We are running a 1.6L 4-cyl and it's plenty loud without the Cherry Bomb but not so loud with it. Well, my kids still think it's loud (and stinky), but they've never been around an unmuffled race car. Cheers.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: exhaust rules changes

Mulry wrote:
WINWAR wrote:

Yep. I hear ya. Most VW's have their fuel accumulator and pump on the right side, right where you would route the exhaust. I guess I have to go out the left. Should be easy enough I guess.

Anyone have any idea how much muffler I need for a 1.8L 4 banger? Hopefully going to be removing the cat. Would a glass pack do it or do I need more? There isnt too much room between the downpipe and where it would exit out the side.

Any Cherry Bomb that fits your exhaust pipes will be sufficient, especially if you put even a slight turn-down at the end of the pipe. We are running a 1.6L 4-cyl and it's plenty loud without the Cherry Bomb but not so loud with it. Well, my kids still think it's loud (and stinky), but they've never been around an unmuffled race car. Cheers.

Check Ebay for a 'Flowtech' muffler (glasspack design) which is made by Holley.  We snagged one for only $15.00.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

25

Re: exhaust rules changes

we just got the CoROLLa running.  The Cheey bomb with the pipe headed out the side is SO LOUD I was in shock.  I'll be adding or replacing something.  It's totally unacceptable.

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)