Topic: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

At Lemons speeds... how likely are we to "ruin" the handling of our crapcan by lopping a couple feet of wheelbase out?

Do we really have to worry about a shortened fwd sedanette becoming "twitchy" in the corners?

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

What year CRX do you have?

Benson Young, Team Nemesis #88, debuting at MSR 2011
Raced Hard, Raced Ugly, got the nickels, moving on...

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

I'd be more concerned about structural rigidity than handling effects.

Seriously... just be sure your wheels all point the same direction when you're done, handling effects should be minimal.  If it ends up feeling twitchy, give it some toe-in in the back, remove the rear swaybar if it has one (or stiffen the front one if it doesn't).  Handling problems can be fixed.

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

with that kinda shortening up for an option, are you planning to drop 2 feet of steel off an old station wagon? I'm curious as chopping a body-on-frame car versus a unibody car has drastically different effects.

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Loren wrote:

I'd be more concerned about structural rigidity than handling effects.

Seriously... just be sure your wheels all point the same direction when you're done, handling effects should be minimal.  If it ends up feeling twitchy, give it some toe-in in the back, remove the rear swaybar if it has one (or stiffen the front one if it doesn't).  Handling problems can be fixed.

This coming from a guy that loves to blow holes in other team's FABULOUS Lemons ideas.... I think it's genius!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Matt, if I offended your delicate ego by something I said about one of your Fabulous Ideas, I apologize.  I thought this was a discussion forum where people were encouraged to share their opinions.  If I see a potential problem with an idea, be it yours or someone else's, I just might mention it.  You don't have to like it.  You don't have to agree with it.  But, do understand that I'm just trying to help.

Back on topic:  I think shortening a car for Lemons racing is a great idea.  Reduces the weight of the car, looks cool, will be fun to do and will likely be appreciated by the judges.  What's not to like?

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Loren wrote:

Matt, if I offended your delicate ego by something I said about one of your Fabulous Ideas, I apologize.  I thought this was a discussion forum where people were encouraged to share their opinions.  If I see a potential problem with an idea, be it yours or someone else's, I just might mention it.  You don't have to like it.  You don't have to agree with it.  But, do understand that I'm just trying to help.

haha awesome smile I know the drill in the forums, and if I wasn't allowed to give you shit for it... what fun would it be???

I do seriously think the idea of shrinking a wheelbase by 24" is awesome, especially if its on a unibody!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Please tell us you are takin the 24" from the middle and not from the rear end!

Remember, it's never too early to start embellishing the past.

"so there I was, 90mph, sideways on the brink of death ..."

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Cool, Matt... I can take some shit, you just seemed serious!  Maybe I'm just gullible?

Did we find out what car is getting it's middle chopped out yet???

Lemons South 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Spring 2009 - Fail, Lemons Detroit(ish) 2008 - Fail, Lemons South Fall 2009 - Fail, Lamest Day 2009 - Fail, Miami 2010 (Chump) - 2nd!, Sebring 2010 (Chump) - Fail, Cuba 2010 - Crew Chief, Roebling 2011 (Chump) - 8th!, Sebring 2011(Chump) - 19th!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

i dunno, there's a couple body-on-frame cars that could use 2feet of the ass chopped out, then another 2feet between the b and c-pillars. turn an 84 caprice wagon into a hatch if you get the drift... big_smile

(maybe another foot in the nose area)

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Spud wrote:

Please tell us you are takin the 24" from the middle and not from the rear end!

Saw someone do that with a 505. Since the Peugeot's gas tank is between the shock towers the rear end isn't really required and the result came out looking like a big Lancia Delta. Given that the backend of our Peugeot had a couple of 4" tears and indications of welding it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that it looked like that at one point. IMHO Gremlinizing a car like that is a fine idea as long as there is enough structure left to take an impact and that the gas tank is replaced with a fuel cell.

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Sounds like a good idea to me!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

This gives me an idea. Maybe we can take 24" out of the wheelbase of our MR2's. And then we can hire a band of trained squirrels to drive them. If we can find a band of trained squirrels that can also do dual-car 4AGE engine swaps in less than 6 hours, I see no reason why not to do it.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

No specific four door fwd unibody in mind... just bench racing last evening and somebody suggested shortening a minivan which turned into speculation of chopping a sedan into a coupe.

Of the seven guys, two have road racing (SCCA) experience and none have Lemons experience.

We'd prefer not to make a slow reliable car into a short, slow, unreliable car that handles poorly... but the argument is that Lemons races are restricted enough by traffic and general crapcaniness that it would be difficult to truly screw up the handling.

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

i've considered this with the crown vic i run in.

nothin is needed from b-c pillar an maybe an extra 12" behind the rear wheels.

but we dont have the resources or a place to do said chopping of wheel-base.

the car would end up looking like a 2 door version of a '90 dodge spirit on steroids a lil

plus i think it would really mess with some heads to have a crown vic coupe

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

What about shortening a Volvo wagon by removing the rear doors to make it like a Chevy Nomad?  What's cooler than a 2 door station wagon?

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

17 (edited by MurileeMartin 2009-10-27 06:47 AM)

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Why hasn't anyone pulled the body off a full-frame car or pickup and built the World's Biggest And Most Horrible Formula One Car? A P71 Crown Vic would be ideal for such a project.

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

MurileeMartin wrote:

Why hasn't anyone pulled the body off a full-frame car or pickup and built the World's Biggest And Most Horrible Formula One Car? A P71 Crown Vic would be ideal for such a project.

That is under consideration as well... paper mache body strength tests are underway as we type...

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

MurileeMartin wrote:

Why hasn't anyone pulled the body off a full-frame car or pickup and built the World's Biggest And Most Horrible Formula One Car? A P71 Crown Vic would be ideal for such a project.

I tried to get Jay to OK a VW based tube buggy I found on Craigslist.  I had visions of a sc 3.8 buick drivetrain in back.  His reply had a number of creative uses of the word "No".  I think deathtrap came up also.

Property Devaluation Racing

Drivers wanted for TX races

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Mulry wrote:

This gives me an idea. Maybe we can take 24" out of the wheelbase of our MR2's. And then we can hire a band of trained squirrels to drive them. If we can find a band of trained squirrels that can also do dual-car 4AGE engine swaps in less than 6 hours, I see no reason why not to do it.

Driving from Houston to FW and back, overnight, to get a donor car, doing a complete engine swap, and getting back on the track in time to take the checkered. That, Was. Awe. Some.

Seriously, it was nice meeting you guys and congrarts on the award ...

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

MurileeMartin wrote:

Why hasn't anyone pulled the body off a full-frame car or pickup and built the World's Biggest And Most Horrible Formula One Car? A P71 Crown Vic would be ideal for such a project.

...you've been listening in on our paddock conversation, haven't you?

on that note, anyone willing to do REALLY CHEAP/free fibreglass fabrication?

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

Serj wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

Why hasn't anyone pulled the body off a full-frame car or pickup and built the World's Biggest And Most Horrible Formula One Car? A P71 Crown Vic would be ideal for such a project.

...you've been listening in on our paddock conversation, haven't you?

on that note, anyone willing to do REALLY CHEAP/free fibreglass fabrication?

Fiberglass? What's wrong with plywood?

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

on the note of the p-seventy-f1 idea....

this where a sponsorship from the maker of those lexan bodies for r/c cars would come quite in handy

plus since it is an f1 knock off you'd definately have to have the seat centered but...



could be an issues there

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

hrlyTCH wrote:

on the note of the p-seventy-f1 idea....

plus since it is an f1 knock off you'd definately have to have the seat centered but...

could be an issues there

What issues?  It would be very Lemony to center the seat...and not the steering wheel/pedals!

Re: Seriously... What Could Go Wrong? (Shortening Wheelbase 24")

nah, you could keep the seat on the side. like a open-cockpit Can Am car smile