Re: Z equals Zero

Please dont diminish our achievement of beating the Festiva, even if just barely, ita all we have to cling to. Actually, nobody was more surprised than us that our crappy Z was running at the end. Dont know if we'll be back for MSR in Feb. but we'll be at Eagles Canyon in June.
That track is gonna be a real hoot in a Lemons car, brakes and balls will win at that track,
massive elevation changes, and runoff that is not so kind as MSR. We really had a good time at our first Lemons, and all the organizers, judges, and competitors were some of the best I've met on this planet.

MurileeMartin wrote:

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/1 … -500px.jpg

Congratulations, Z racers! Team Flying Wrench's 300ZX managed- just barely- to beat out a Ford Festiva! Can we look forward to a relentless Z-versus-Festiva rivalry in future races?

______________________________
Team Flying Wrench Nissan 300 ZX
ASE Certified Master Tech, 25 years
I hate cars and the people who drive them

Re: Z equals Zero

Eagles Canyon... could there be air time?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

78 (edited by YesIFit 2009-10-30 11:23 AM)

Re: Z equals Zero

phil the wrench wrote:

We'll be at Eagles Canyon in June.
That track is gonna be a real hoot in a Lemons car, brakes and balls will win at that track,
massive elevation changes, and runoff that is not so kind as MSR.

Amen. You'd better have your brakes sorted out before you come out to ECR ... 'Specially with the race being in June..

We'll (hopefully) be out there too...

Summer's Eve Racing - '09 Yee-Haw; '10 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie, Yee-Haw; '11 Gator-O-Rama, NorDal Hooptie (Winner, Class A!)
TARP Racing - '11 Yee-Haw, Heaps; '12 Gator-O-Rama (Winner, Class C ... Looking for a Class B Win to Complete the Trifecta!), Heaps; '13 NorDal Hooptie, Gator-O-Rama

Re: Z equals Zero

There will be a run on Home Depot for deryer duct brake coolers...

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Z equals Zero

Water spray cooled brake rotors is the way to go.......

Re: Z equals Zero

phil the wrench wrote:

You'd better have your brakes sorted out before you come out to ECR.

uh-oh.

Josh Poage
Poage Ma Thoin Racing - 1981 Fiat Brava #09 - 2009 Yee-haw It's Texas
Prison Break Racing - 1986 325e #27 - 2010 Gator-o-Rama
Poage Ma Thoin Racing - 1981 Fiat Brava #09 - 2011 Heaps in the Heart of Texas

Re: Z equals Zero

kalpol wrote:
phil the wrench wrote:

You'd better have your brakes sorted out before you come out to ECR.

uh-oh.

Srsly.  You're screwed if your brake pads are smaller than coozies.  And you're not n00bs anymore, so no excuses.  Remember, brakes = safety system.  Spend away!

I'm the doctor who is a wife. Which makes the grease hard to explain to my patients... www.tetanusneon.com.

Re: Z equals Zero

kalpol wrote:
phil the wrench wrote:

You'd better have your brakes sorted out before you come out to ECR.

uh-oh.

Here's your brake fix.  Bring money.

http://midwest124.com/Whoa_Brakes.htm

Team Co-Craptain, Los Cerdos Voladores
Plymouth Neon
Yeah, we're horrible...but we're LEAST Horrible

Re: Z equals Zero

widgetsltd wrote:
kalpol wrote:
phil the wrench wrote:

You'd better have your brakes sorted out before you come out to ECR.

uh-oh.

Here's your brake fix.  Bring money.

http://midwest124.com/Whoa_Brakes.htm

MO BETTA!!!
http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/5BBYD3JR.jpg

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Z equals Zero

While guys may get sticker shock from seeing prices like the Whoa kits, you need to look at what you get and your overall cost.

On my old 240Z, the brakes are questionably adequate to begin with. 

My friends car has close to stock brakes and they really should have done a rear adjustment and bled the brakes after Saturday.  They were losing pedal on Sunday most likely do to the wheel cylinders getting out of adjustment.  The guys running the 260Z at MSR also had brake issues which were probably from the rear brakes.

I upgraded my car to 4 wheel discs with vented front rotors.  It did cost more than a complete stock replacement but only by like $150.  I have participated in 4 races and my brakes have been consistent through each race and all the races combined.  My brakes can easily handle a full 24 hour race.  They are limited by the tires and are a bit aggressive.

My friend's car would most likely need to be adjusted mid-race or several times if he runs a true 24 hour race.  Old Zs don't have the best brakes to start with.

A drawback to my system is my front caliper.  I run 280ZX calipers which pretty much limits me to Porterfield pads at around $100-125 a set.  I think Willwoods use a more generic pad and they are less expensive, like $60 a set. 

So sometimes a larger hardware cost will lead to a lower overall operating cost. 

An even simpler example of this is running say Premium Pads from your local parts house versus a Race/track pad from someone like Hawk or Porterfield. 

Your premium pad may only cost $50 a set while a Race/track pad may be say $80+.  The race pad will probably last several times longer than a Premium pad. So say your $50 Premium pad is good for 1 race where the Race pad is good for 2 races.  The Race pad is $40 a race where the cheaper Premium pad is $50 a race.  So in the end a Race pad may be cheaper and safer overall.

The other problem is if you realize the Premium pad just isn't good enough and then you have to upgrade to the Race pad.  Now you are out $50 + $80 = $130 instead of just $80 in the first place.  The extra $30 saved you $50.

If I would have spent a little more time and went with a 4 piston Toyota caliper up front, I would have better pad availability which would have been less expensive.  I still may go to 4 pistons in the future.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

Hey Troy,

In the two races that we ran the '79 280ZX @ MSR Houston, we were using stock everything.  In fact, the rotors (while perhaps not originals) were the ones on the car when we got it (just turned them).  we replaced all the lines with braided ones, and we used the AutoZone pads (I think about $26 for the fronts).  We left the rears as they were, and did not add any brake cooling at all.

the car braked very well,,..... I think the best thing we did was go with a top shelf fluid, and bled the brakes before every session.

I swear by Motul RBF600,..... but I would spend the extra for the RBF660 if it were in a real race car.  If you want to find this stuff locally; you likely would have to go to a motorcycle shop.

Re: Z equals Zero

yamato wrote:

Hey Troy,

In the two races that we ran the '79 280ZX @ MSR Houston, we were using stock everything.  In fact, the rotors (while perhaps not originals) were the ones on the car when we got it (just turned them).  we replaced all the lines with braided ones, and we used the AutoZone pads (I think about $26 for the fronts).  We left the rears as they were, and did not add any brake cooling at all.

the car braked very well,,..... I think the best thing we did was go with a top shelf fluid, and bled the brakes before every session.

I swear by Motul RBF600,..... but I would spend the extra for the RBF660 if it were in a real race car.  If you want to find this stuff locally; you likely would have to go to a motorcycle shop.

If you have good intial bite and good wear on the pads you currently have... there is really no need to upgrade but FLUID is the key...

I think some one said they melted the pucks out of the calipers. THAT could be an issue.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Z equals Zero

How about Zx2's? Free pass?


KT

TH 2009- 40th ~ SP 2010- 13th Class Bad win!! TH 2010- 17th ~TH 2010- 16th  SP 2011- 20th ~ RF 2011- 13th Least Horrible Yank Tank ~ TH 2011- 79th
SP 2011- 105th ~ SP 2012- 119th ~ SP 2013- 139th ~ BW 2013- 17th
Follow Filthy on Facebook: Flailing Lizard Motorsports

Re: Z equals Zero

Only if I get to inspect your belts before the race....

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Z equals Zero

All ZX Nissans have 4 wheel discs with vented front rotors.  Early S30 Zs have rear drum brakes and solid front rotors. 

The rear drums are okay but kinda high maintenance.  The parts for the 240Z are kinda pricey.  The 280Z has different wheel cylinders and I think they are less expensive.

The 280ZX has better brakes that are an upgrade for the early Z.  However, I have had these guys come to me looking for parts too: blown lines and calipers.  They quit making the 280ZX in 1983 so an original line is 26 years old.  It's just a matter of time before it fails.

Driving style is also a factor in brake wear and lifespan. 

Running the full course at MSR without chicanes probably reduces the need for brakes on a lot of cars.  I don't think I had to brake as much.

Grippier tires can take the turns faster so you don't have to slow down as much and they also make the brakes work better.

There really are a lot of factors that need to work together to make a car work well.  Adequate brakes that work well with the tires make a car easier to drive and more balanced.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

http://www.ronman.org/pics/Lemons/yeehawtx/09/1/PA240271_std.JPG

Sorry, I couldn't resist big_smile

92 (edited by jimeditorial 2009-11-03 08:20 AM)

Re: Z equals Zero

Don't understand this....how in hell can Z's as sports cars have such a poor record? Add a rev limiter and  stop driving like Senna! If the Honeybee guys can do it in their 210's...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Z equals Zero

The S30 Z cars are all between 32 and 41 years old and were originally sold as cheap sports cars.  Cheap sports cars are either driven into the ground from day one or they are taken care of and babied.  If they were always taken care of, they aren't $500 cars.  That leaves rusty, neglected and used-up Z cars that can be bought for $500.  My 260 was a complete POS that had been abandoned and left to die over 15 years ago.  Prior to the owner giving up on the car, every mechanical system had either been messed with or had simply worn out.  I have never seen a car with so many problems.  It was all we could do to get it running and moving under its own power in 10 weeks leading up to the Lamest Day.  It was clear that we needed more development time when the diff broke a few hours into the race. 

Now that we have run it for 400+ miles on the track, we know what to fix and we will be back with a better car.  Will it break again?  Hell yes, but eventually we will have a reliable contender.

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584

Re: Z equals Zero

I picked up another 1973 240Z over the weekend.  At first we thought the tags went out in 04, upon further consideration, they probably ran out in 94.  So it's got a good 15 years of crust on it.

I must be a glutton and should invest in a side of MR2 with an SHO for desert.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

Troy wrote:

I picked up another 1973 240Z over the weekend.  At first we thought the tags went out in 04, upon further consideration, they probably ran out in 94.  So it's got a good 15 years of crust on it.

I must be a glutton and should invest in a side of MR2 with an SHO for desert.

Here's a SHO motor to add to your fun:
http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/1440870191.html

now lets see you put THAT in a Z... I think the universe would implode.

Re: Z equals Zero

Serj wrote:
Troy wrote:

I picked up another 1973 240Z over the weekend.  At first we thought the tags went out in 04, upon further consideration, they probably ran out in 94.  So it's got a good 15 years of crust on it.

I must be a glutton and should invest in a side of MR2 with an SHO for desert.

Here's a SHO motor to add to your fun:
http://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/1440870191.html

now lets see you put THAT in a Z... I think the universe would implode.

Nooooo! Don't cross the streams!

ONSET/Tetanus Racing, est. 2008.
Guest drives: NSF, Rocket Surgery, Property Devaluation, Terminally Confused, Team Sputnik, The Syndicate, Pit Crew Revenge, Spank, Hella Shitty, Sir Jackie Stewart's Coin Purse, Nine Finger Drifters, Salty Thunder, Panting Polar Bear, Vistabeam, Hangar 13, and Escape Velocity.
74 races so far.

Re: Z equals Zero

I've been thinking 5.0.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Z equals Zero

Troy wrote:

I picked up another 1973 240Z over the weekend.  At first we thought the tags went out in 04, upon further consideration, they probably ran out in 94.  So it's got a good 15 years of crust on it.

I must be a glutton and should invest in a side of MR2 with an SHO for desert.

With a Sawzall I bet you could make a SHO motor fit in an MR2. What could go wrong?

Re: Z equals Zero

Jeff G 78 wrote:

The S30 Z cars are all between 32 and 41 years old and were originally sold as cheap sports cars.  Cheap sports cars are either driven into the ground from day one or they are taken care of and babied.  If they were always taken care of, they aren't $500 cars.

Right, so the S30s have an excuse for dissolving like sugar cubes in hot water on a Lemons track. How about the Z31s?

Re: Z equals Zero

Z31s are the red headed step children of the Z world.  Check out any Z forum and see how much love they get.  I owned a Z31 for about six months and vowed to never own another.  I hated working on that car with a passion.

Z31s are newer though which explains why Black Sheep Racing (they know that Z31s get no love from Z folks) managed to keep theirs together long enough to bring home a 4th place.  The poor S30s haven't gotten anywhere near the podium.

Just because S30s "dissolve like sugar cubes in hot water" doesn't make them any less sweet!  tongue

BRE Datsun (Broke Racing Effluence) formerly Dawn of the Zed Racing
'74 260Z
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/editpicture.php … 2559430584