Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

HAZE33 wrote:

Has anyone seen this blog before?

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/0 … t-ranking/

snip


I think i've read that before, or tried to. It's a bit poorly laid out. But remember that he's talking about normal use in road cars. Racing is different. Racing Lemons is even more different.

A few points. Yes a thinner oil flows more at the same pressure. You'll find that in all fluids, one of those pesky physics things. But thinner does not always equal better. Let's look at the new Jag F-type V8. That V8 is not new, it's been around for a while in other cars like the XKR. However, when they released the F-Type they changed the oil spec to a thinner one (I forget exactly what it was before and after, I'll look again later). They changed because thinner oil actually increases mileage because the oil pump robs less power. Suddenly you started seeing cars with very early engine failures, mostly due to rod knock. A good friend of mine had one of the first in the country to go.

Viscosity means more when you know the health of your engine. A more worn out engine, who's bearings might be approaching the low end of the acceptable thickness will appreciate a thicker oil. Thicker oil will help accommodate that wear space.

Heat is a concern, but you shouldn't be thinking about the oil doing cooling. Mostly you just want to make sure the oil isn't overheating and breaking down. The only people that really truly use oil for cooling are rotary guys. If you're having overheating issues sort out your main engine cooling system first and you'll see the oil temps come down with it.

There is no one right answer for all cars. Some have better pumps, better designed flow passages, more or fewer components to oil, better or worse designs that increase or decrease the tendency to wear. You need to evaluate your engine and adjust to match. Look at the health of your oil pump, is it stock or oversized, is it worn out and not sealing well anymore? Is your cooling system working well? Do you know what your oil temps are? Do you have an oil cooler? Are you getting a lot of metal in your oil from parts wearing?


But absolute first should be fixing your starvation issue. Again, no oil can fix that. That is purely a hardware issue and must be addressed.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

TheEngineer wrote:

The only people that really truly use oil for cooling are rotary guys.

How so?

The massive oil cooler is required because of the massive bearings and increased oil pressure...the oil only goes to the bearings and the inside of the rotor, which is the same as the underside of a piston in a normal engine.  A rotary engine is still full of water jackets.

-Nathan - Team Captain, Priority Fail Racing
1997 Golf GTI VR6 Mid Engine

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

the shaolin wrote:
TheEngineer wrote:

The only people that really truly use oil for cooling are rotary guys.

How so?

The massive oil cooler is required because of the massive bearings and increased oil pressure...the oil only goes to the bearings and the inside of the rotor, which is the same as the underside of a piston in a normal engine.  A rotary engine is still full of water jackets.

The oil in a rotary pulls out a large chunk of the heat. Rotaries produce massively more heat than piston engines (at a similar scale). The oil that is sprayed on the inside of the rotor is actually cooling it. Yes this happens in piston engines, but the piston isn't constantly facing a combustion cycle like the rotor is. A piston engine with a well sorted cooling system can get away without an oil cooler. A rotary cannot.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Fair enough, I'll agree with that.  Thanks for clarifying.

-Nathan - Team Captain, Priority Fail Racing
1997 Golf GTI VR6 Mid Engine

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Awesome thread, spent an hour or more last night reading from the beginning...we already have one car, but you have inspired me to go a bit more lemoney with a second car...

#33 Ford Festiva - Team Emoticons

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Chapter 22 - Screwed

I had such high hopes for this race. We'd come so close to winning class C so many times that I had convinced myself this was the race. Everything was going to go perfectly. Oh how wrong I was.

We showed up to Loudon  early friday morning with a car that ran, and just needed a few minor finishing tasks. First we swapped another front axle suspecting that the one we put in at Thompson was leaking from the inner joint. Then we went after the brakes, which were even worse than their terrible selves. Over the course of the day we replaced the line to the rear brakes, moved the bias valve suspecting it was trapping air by being above the master cylinder, and bled probably 3 large bottles of fluid through the system. No dice. With the booster plugged in the pedal goes straight to the floor. Without the booster the pedal feels like a normal boosted brake. We pulled the booster line.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/W4KFFLlLv9Gv6p0DsGCjBCm9rLGRnu4TTqWDSEQo620XGSclYwmBq4mF8mUQR6iK3TBeH-U-uVBDrPSBVvbqIvFem8S4FdnTDel7WONiccc3PaQ63IVu0L5XEW04xdMpmOeZ1oOyYxTr-Q9OKkHTIsXbcDYBUlwP4NXEV-nxOd5jccq4BKObN2msH_8JF6xvBfuTBwuKPLOp8rUqw6qjRLQs1mZCbyPFAMWHbFw79DpMdLayfDnFTDDRybBzd0YlOsTPTuO45WQ-iosUQGSKM29wHdckI64ZKYzBSQLkw1WVpK_fgOgXL4Tnj2X4RgzukSSou_f5hqqwfx37BbrbGFCWnl1cq_p9BWx_e-LW_xWWu133Hin0CkTNlFcpUXSHOxNSl2TNpxfMuIboE9Dro8CRK9khhOBN5S8HYjgPdTUSIHKXR0o66WYsEmfs_Ls1RmGgV1VPEXg9z7uVcqKzUzoMWiBMxr6VOJuEKRtkKP5u6V4lxQkkSdl2yC6LDujbfQ6dBMKpgeyAksMdn-zv0szLXWVWB0N0jfD1AVUDspV5=w425-h755-no

Saturday we put in our first driver. For the first time ever, I was not opening the race. If this was to be the last race of the daytona I wanted to be the last driver. So Ben got in first. Everything seemed fine, we were running second in class, we had fast lap times, and our fuel strategy had us taking fewer stops than most teams. Everything seemed normal until the radio call.

"Uh, i'm coasting in, i have nothing."
"What do you mean nothing?"
"Car shut off, won't restart"

Shit.

Popping the hood revealed a sight I hadn't seen since our first race. Oil soaking everything. Our oil cooler line failed. It was a -10AN pushlock hose, something we'd used before with great success. But for whatever reason it blew off and emptied our pan all over the inside of the engine bay. So I crawled under and dropped the oil pan. I was greeted with the sight of bearing chips. Perfect, let's start pulling the engine.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sEjGzG8kAYpT9W5ZwX33DMp_Jk53KjIqUSJTg8PTpkVnC2jxFH5DY94g1e3EEImd7Az8Q9nglsfkcvG-oC1sFsy5lUNsoXmmyn6p37eLUlwBS9BQPEcFODiYM37ia8US4_V7xSA4oZNHa3FboZ-KAYmf9Bnz8Pc7pDN5dRzdNiQWJFnYDjI5aLoYnT7VKvsWTS8uwbvC793q3FoEbq44ZKyxEJUy7ISJhZJ61QL28wqhPJ9v8AGcbZJ19Oq1Cko5WkGBqjW7xg9fiKEuEa_bwrHF11sLiz5BCl7KmnNhIhqRsypd-ubtIcnf1zinKQiE9T6WGYu5Ro2xdqkjH5HsfbMVVgG9lZH3HV0cHNNToJQB8BHCPYhRjYVnzSmVs9AK2Nzr9js1bto9_jFuOQDeFdz4o6kN-S9dIE7GfqV35W35YnuqDKnGeTFvj9IvoE0VVv0kvCeZW8-_Kkc8JeGfnax0H1OTXSeG0utlWV7vw325uRbI3NCkbR9o7A39eTLvt0Loav8xmnv765FQg41ZTw17VYhV0HO9oSymnd97sBHL=w425-h755-no

While I waited for my room mate to show up with my engine stand we started pulling caps off with the engine hanging from a crane. The first two rods and all the mains looked perfect. I had hope. Maybe we just started to eat one or two and we could be running within a couple hours. I did have extra bearings after all. We finally got the engine mounted on a stand, flipped it over, and got our first look at the two pistons sitting at the top of their stroke. My heart sank.

One of the rods looked normal, still covered in oil. The other was not. It was dry, burnt, and obviously misshapen. Any hope of salvaging the engine vanished. We got the nuts off, but couldn't get the cap off the crank. I finally accepted the crank was dead anyway and broke out the huge hammer. Some smashing with a 1/4" socket extension drove the bolts through the cap and set it free. Cap was completely misshapen, rod was bent. The remains of the bearing were friction welded to the rod. The crank journal had bearing parts welded to it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l0m9zoMpx8vVqPDXK77vbPmYpUv_DqoQKooY4fgzYVwqV9bYWDtCIYmuaOPR91N3czMCu1f8r2b1Apuy8u4oXVSlnbjRy_qIFJrBxALYHkArXWHKWrLyu131BA19besoanReA52bcFnunmamh2eVQZnZCDyNLKtqvnD5sGgNwkZ5hD6p6IUn9HQEUcaWITRWTUe2RIAsxD82X4HCi3wzt8Q_dazuJXagqzz_pGVRYTJsrBkom6cTY8uSr1Gk34V2VIy7wRrr_nwwLHG37OM_llu_0O8JYNvoLqxAgMkE6ouSsdU6d-kdj7ZMHN7AWey4YMJ9PCaUl073xcFF1Ox7YVUk5MWkVrC02KYDlc7TQjxfrVDKBNJpjm5dYoVTT487wtQcz8ffFGMwxcUPEvcLCDn8c9NAqZMxe9K0i90Vn6-MeOgSKFkM2Qce8Y5ynz2iZSl8WfG4QpJz42bD7RUofZJOyg4DFpK6BLYIUwne0Inepx7RBDv59qcPxlTzBk7n6HwbBYFmcuBZT9Igsw-xRv-0KYfTduJ_YOAKrG09_JIM=w1343-h755-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qdxfND7HycSUcb6mztynUvPH5wO2wah668SVD7Oo5jRWwuc7tFld_m9nS5ik0Pi-YxfFfJIZ_PI329u00UpN2ZMp5DMRHOo38UPB_A_R8ee7czh0atONgHR7TLgY_KbzDOdu7oseD_UlL-qlM2CgCc0Qbi4nOz-viC29V45FQdNvQyJbEQcQVcAPxgAq0pdRYVpMUvesAPPIRNKqTrCWyw9KJMgvfa6U_5pFx_WlXRLa_LITn0mN1f-CfdBmsz034JRW85jFd27t0s_nXarPXvjTbiMhmYOg9HXlaGvlKWjJ9PzB2YJrutr3Tx3rjlBDxMcdT4gZeHWwnqbN7T65vWXv_DH-nZBqQZNj5BmVmNjWkjijGja5Z8JkUbeJm5YnHF6ve4hNY43iZc00VwvdON-BGpTm2ac1kR9TZNJTVeX5b-0WwbFS_83tS2Tij5PY4kBNEe7F4aH84dyhmwA3sMYi3-ACRazAalplGFvacw6Ocoqvr0Lah-3RlR_eVK_rxHh26u9az0KGgUooImL1V7t25TzrgjvpNVLa02CBQbqI=w1343-h755-no

Trying to get the piston out revealed another issue. You can't take the pistons out the bottom of the block, and the crank end of the rod was deformed enough that it couldn't pass through the cylinder. So out comes the angle grinder. Finally freeing the piston revealed the rest of the damage. The cylinder is scored with metal bits embedded in it. Either pieces of bearing, or pieces of turbo fin. The piston is scored to crap and the rings are seriously abused. So, ruined parts count: block, crank, conrod, and 4 pistons (the other three wrecked their wrist pins.) The turbo had also eaten itself. The compressor wheel nut had fallen off (into the air filter thank god), and the compressor wheel itself had been eating itself on the housing.

Thankfully I live 40 miles from Loudon, so I set off home to scour my garage for parts. 2 hours later I was back with a block, crank, a bucket of pistons (I think there were north of 10 in there), and a few other random parts. While a swarm of enthusiastic friends and family descended on the two blocks I set about trying to work out how I was going to make the new crank go into the block. Without going into a ton of detail, in 1989 chrysler made what they called a common block. Same block would be used for all 4 cylinder engines be them NA, turbo, 2.2, 2.5, whatever. These used a crank with a longer snout and a different front plate. The front plate changed where the oil pan covered, and required a different oil pan as well. I had an earlier crank made for a non-common block. So the list of things to overcome if I wanted to build an engine:

1. Find bearings for the new crank
2. Figure out how to attach the early front plate to the common block engine and seal it.
3. Find a set of pistons that would work with the block
4. Find a way to seal the old style oil pan to the common block
5. Clean the top of the block enough that maybe our MLS gasket would seal to it.
6. Adapt all the oil and water lines for a garret turbo to fit a spare Mitsubishi turbo I had (thanks judge Rich!)

We got derailed at problem 1. Back in the Loudon garages I took a set of calipers to the new crank. Rod journals were .02" undersized. That's fine, I have some used ones I can throw in. Main journals are .02" undersized. Fuck. I don't have those. But wait, I should have the bearings that were on that crank when I took it out. They're just back in Nashua. So off we went again for a 2 hour trip looking for parts. Back in my garage I ripped apart every box and shelf searching, only to slowly recall my whirlwind cleaning session in the garage a month ago where I most certainly threw away every used bearing I found. Fuck. We're done.

We drove back to the track, bought some beer, and accepted defeat. No one carries bearings for this car locally. A few beers in, as i'm happily enjoying doing nothing and finally talking to friends for the first time all day, the influencers arrive. One of the Sorry for Party guys convinced me that if we ran heavy oil and lucas the engine should last at least a few minutes. So why the hell was I not building an engine. Sigh, fine. Let's build an engine and ruin more parts.

The crank went in easy enough. 0.01" over bearings on a 0.02" ground crank. The crank spun really easy, should be a fast reving engine. Old pistons out of the block, new set from my bucket in. Correct bearings on the rods and everything buttoned up. Moved my high volume oil pump to the new block. Then the front plate. We drilled and tapped two new holes in the front of the engine, applied a lot of RTV, and bolted it on. Oil pan goes on with extra RTV on the end that doesn't have bolt holes. Flip it over, clean the top of the block and drop on the gasket, head studs, and finally head. Meanwhile the Mitsubishi turbo had been prepped to accept almost all the garret lines. We finally called it a night around 1am.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bWTaRDqymQnHYoOmMWLy7ePWeOzfIpqrAM-3ra_lqUr1c0KUweNH8uP6bkbNWIkrziApdERgfgLfsJFtnZPSe7UZucvicTFPGPFcHcLzDe4gLubmN74lRcGiDsbV4CQU8G0pl9ZlMeVIF11QOAHK66VkBAILHCg1e9SmgYtQegLk6p2Lkq4-9ZlmxrTMAJfNBEarqEzgsIl7lbGYpKQo6FqKD1iOhr3LRHtVYgfpzHSgFbcj4lVD4VLT0a-1or4fsLVEXtrwDIlMNxb31K6RV0SSkc3UmRs5WXQCSG3i39hI-pN0AkGvljVADYIhUbAW5pA9iG4xn8kkm33M9zeU9dawsgMFMfQVrd9NLusaucjYH2h6fPHCd-zLBDAJs00Y2EuTHGg8X2Y79563c3Z1bOO7VejsMhzx1yDO-iJ8atlwI465biwGfdxg-KVlIMlqr-asTgze4sofNLDEqlyLAK9aTpwbzRcfIccRzW1Q9uj0chpDjoDZLNp02_kVyhAiPLTPIfNH3gMisP-O-n7RICSGnEIKMxRdLcZNFWAdQZHM=w1343-h755-no

The next morning while everyone else is firing up their still running cars we were back at it. Accessory brackets on. Clutch on. Turbo mounted and final mods to the water lines to make everything clear the wastegate arm. Last step is to set the timing belt. So I line up the crank and accessory shaft gears. Then throw a breaker bar on the cam, apply force, and.... nothing. It won't move. The one god damn part we didn't check is also ruined. Can't fix the head either. There aren't bearings on the cam, it just sits in the machined bosses of the head. I have more heads, but they're at home and i'm out of energy to get one. We'd only get like 30 minutes on track anyway once it's buttoned up.

So here we are, a total replay of our first ever race. Empty oil pan and a broken engine. A weekend that was supposed to be our one perfect race has gone worse than any other. So we started cleaning up. Engine went in the car for easier transport. By the awards ceremony we had everything packed and done. Judge Rich was kind enough to give our car a send off with the runner up to I got Screwed. But the team who they planned on giving the award to went home early, and you must be present to win, so Futility Motorsport got screwed.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ithPNHYWuPuJ-Bd0OzTOQMWHu02k5FlSRAg9t22LDY-4B-cFwVJY1caF41D9msx9dJmAt6bf4pxVWTyMjGsNrL0phyL751ZH9ToZEQYr9Q5smABcqGcZ6ZvuTjYYdsxoBCBPHsUs86--JRvT85BuXYRFlT65BWOil8HDGWteFXPH91Kx3lm8_a-PxS63bwZ86d7CBtrbSWow5XJanqlJOi8l0Gd7bfcDAG0wabOnXTJsPh3IY64f-t0OGd2K3xcZfei4AcruqBAtF_by34AEH4F709YI0tHg-trCY7gCXjEggZaaBoI9Gu38xvlwYNJR6VHewGLHUkRnI9XJsCC2YGW767-lB1olm832eYo6Qv1jXFGhx46Z4a8Kjj_X2Ai54B8HVtFmaIQPZc8puCGze--3xVy5odWj-KfR6qInffeyIfJ0hNycT1QO9n3NsE5dqAHqQKeQBMeQQHu6McgCLSHiUb2zIascW9qHuZIBagAzV2v43P3R09XShEnkwk0EoqIxNB3OL5oR6pbqq0PGJhMiGQvCLu0weoEQb2OXramh=w1343-h755-no

Going out the same way we came in, it's kind of poetic. We took this hopeless basketcase car, wrangled it into something that actually worked fairly well, and then got kicked in the ass when it had just had too much. 12 races, 4800+ race miles, 5 awards, and untold hours of labor. The daytona lived a good life. It's time to retire it though. Later this week I'll go into why in more detail.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/9NOypfZWwFFWG5USapgwrsmBFKCm3MQF0qiruqZEu_yPxqs2KhT3JGfImAtBLW5wIqp3PQlW8TlbzA4DS8LyWTNtSaWZ7ckKcoMPq8y6mjoXfiQHILTFHxosBr77MIzV3CDIhQUUOOc9HbWgjilucJZBtRb5rwJAfnbgaLq9V1VhC19wo3PPEZqcTjbXgl4RQFyFu3mUi598mkwzMbefylUrxoU1LJbyKKURcvaI0Lp802M3cOZvAk8xVoQyXnoue4fo13bt5JZXwZrggZxLqL7PHvtFZvMgRgBOuO5t7p6NzVetJKB_I3mhnL1G3uG1bSgPJqw3ICM-2dacL74_Riq21htALfpcFsvh5DnrArUZqkScwlS95e0C4Pbp2wYGe0ObPpAyeQWL8dhlIXVLRvJKdOvPY4ZfiSqfpPBZ5Sncgj_46h1iLIrw8bo6sZF1rO575HbIRI8oiHnsfBXbUZINNhT0wP9UPdUM2KVzLjEroLHRjXI6APoIVArx8qG60c1EDgKC3tXMJSLAZtLDm7eaIzlZa19P1fxEGu8XPolq=w1343-h755-no

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Feeling your pain but please burn that thing in a blaze of glory.  Let it be known that the Daytona has been a TRUE LEMON

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

pictures not working sad

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu(C>B>C>B) , 1996 Nissan Maxima OnlyFans (B) , Sold 1996 Ford Probe GT(B),

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

well that's annoying. I've had good luck with google hosted pictures lately.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

210 (edited by fleming95 2015-10-29 03:11 PM)

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Sorry to hear about the turbo fragging the engine.  As I read through your description (especially the 'the one part we didn't check was the busted one', I thought I heard a voice from the past...

TheEngineer wrote:

Chapter 22 - Screwed

<snip>

Going out the same way we came in, it's kind of poetic.

We took the hopeless basketcase car,

K-car - check!

TheEngineer wrote:

wrangled it into something that actually worked fairly well,

. . . wins IoE. . . . check!

TheEngineer wrote:

and then got kicked in the ass when it had just had too much.

. . . .from what I heard, leading class C at Buttonwillow, then kablooey!

TheEngineer wrote:

12 races, 4800+ race miles, 5 awards, and untold hours of labor and pints of blood.

Yep, sounds like Chrysler's finest!


That said, good luck with your next project - I bet the K could use some lovin', since she hasn't been on track in a loooong time, eh?

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

fleming95 wrote:

Sorry to hear about the turbo fragging the engine.  As I read through your description (especially the 'the one part we didn't check was the busted one', I thought I heard a voice from the past...

Turbo didn't take out the engine. Think it was the other way around. The turbo was worn, but still had life in it. I think when the oil line came off and starved the turbo of oil it went to hell just like everything else.


I'm not taking on the k-car. That's a car with a legacy all it's own.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

RIP, Daytona.

(Although, if you stuffed a Type 4 engine in the trunk...legendary status awaits, dude.)

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Just a side note, not all of the engine's oil was still in the engine compartment.  A good portion of it was on the front of the #505 Mustang (including the windshield) and the exit of turn three.

I hope to have the in-car footage of the Daytona's final moments by the end of the weekend.

"She's a brick house" 57th out of 121 and 5th in Class C, There Goes the Neighborhood 2013
"PA Posse" 21st out of 96 and 2nd in Class C, Capitol Offense 2013.
"PA Posse" 29th out of 133 and Class C WINNER, Halloween Hooptiefest 2013
"PA Posse" 33rd out of 151 and 2nd in Class C, The Real Hoopties 2013

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

racinrob wrote:

Just a side note, not all of the engine's oil was still in the engine compartment.  A good portion of it was on the front of the #505 Mustang (including the windshield) and the exit of turn three.

I hope to have the in-car footage of the Daytona's final moments by the end of the weekend.

Please share. If my driver had noticed right when it happened (he claims he remembers it losing grip), we could have saved that engine and kept running. Instead I think he tried to drive all the way up and over the hill before the engine locked up on him. Engines only last so long without oil.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

A few more gratuitous pictures of destruction.

deformed rod cap
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/v_dTqR1-Nq5m41Ds0Dfdcs2zpHHznAXTcHm8mkUNTFTts_JraJ-kIlhtOlcbO3LCa3-h1ao5szKprbAsxNBu8aPZ3-YgCU5puLNcYjsxsOprUvR2SKElHVgSaaOm3U7yBVHQMXwYWgw_joesV9d7Iw7Y2jBst2fYG74QDUyzWz5uk84Zr2R-vjFAauWGHnljrnLSS4iQFC6XyC5fdLpg-a2MKlXYv3tNrwIQ9Vqpa4U5IH3-4tgaMXo56m_n64x7qHsVl1JSOX4SbFuCGPr3p_2lzAps0tNVtLwSjE-3Ea3fIQ5KkxBPeN2sG7Wa_6fbCgQZXROHl47wdjkWU5ay6Km1QBWyFYCC6_hkezCUH8joqTHYYn3fDG_SfMWqWrc6GA1A1k_dVKf8ewafEGj9nAPeyGC_AGTC0zSle6FXHsh80NZoGgMjWyx734Z3qmDcBa97RS2UpAoGIx2F0HBh3He2wChpeK8SU9Fy9r1fFWO09az1HxqSwMGCTBMQLTjspxs-i2UeG1XpgPW-2Yf0ZbsCCOh15VYHMVcfCOoA74xM=w1343-h755-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GuDY7KdbpJ4-1I07-Be6hEPZxRXH0fNtA4x8Nt79bnFaUrIZv_2Fg2f90hwnp0OYKLutNGnLXrZ8C8f_1SJ1t6Z9rspJSkYiUwjV0WZkKCUDlt5tMPXRofdzbNM4qeU22fE8ZLiw8oJFtUFeXotiF7j0zFgRcWkvABmSaL8Ou08VBZyT81_iDYpw7TS9ctdQWbysg1on15pcWVImaiIvA57DhdasDxgRJkjN1PaLAMYoG5raGWbPATI0R4TupuvPsSalemSmtWbE5Lhxdvit3K0H5hYFgSAi1gZ5hRBsy9z1XA3Axo4RH5NCqYKgMBrWbRHq79uvEGb0RYHUEKEmv_ZLTPp26rmDPaAHBHyzlKdA4bLvcCoFXK68o51k1ySsIldOX5PCf4BWAvlgmibRPRT8xms1mfJnHrnHPTXd1b0oHg1IV_ooK_nGH9wftW7_bQySaqRumXDG_zZ0XscnQRQ4aLU_9NGgmod6f7PRK9estBSDmN01uMXn-zi03GvOSlkdHTBSc9hFIXL2YlcZCAKjAT_KJ8igPAuu7KH23zqa=w1343-h755-no

deformed rod with welded on bearing

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/LNQMeJpBDq10rKz0hJ4bEZvfkUlKv4mLyDNl18nepPCxrP3AmsSP2pabfNqTp_jaA4QyiqDl0OZi-x7PEUZZe1Cg6Y1dc9nmZ6WZZeqn9w8VmmzsXO3ZxhgRKxn6nEkG0PQvHrBXEMySWVjbecsvPH7cR3-weror9S6cHYgYAqWVhj8habCgtK0ipQ_M9Wro1kPYXzy4C5QLUoDxxxR43Nhjf7Jr7m2fcsttCUsJ4Efr2nB78VvJezVlOrjuZts_VERQpcPMnWJA8P_j35E0Z__6L077OrqMHJKXAnBtFvUYGEfJmbq5PzNS86muOY5X8kpeKm2lsJpXRqWClm8G6IyDWbyfJHKzInfQcTk_-NR1Ja74sUjKDUUfB1-tX-6Dk6V8fTnrh4FyTd98_oTRE2qCtQjJpF-mmQrQsHtEQL2h29TibLX-4xQqQTcBBk4iZslJlSe00xT84xuiyyd6gYAEmw3DJ1hs-JvlDeb_GPTunGMLNDubrbYYbLKN2pFJ8mWwQJbqf6pzMZM4bcCBZ0yFKcUNO_r6P8xNKZohdRQu=w1343-h755-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7fejGV2YpEX6pvC8TxV1GxhW3_It0bMH8PHTtx4ROgjLCW5pWS1k4zqgPQnPWkw0yEY-A7_rOQCxLDZWfZCDoSPvuF-qG2x_F1GnIV6k0MWfJFuTWtrLFx4NUhXTEzKG1E8UNc_VBG3Eg0HzhuLB4w6VfDuAmeQ2n_SHl2_BKl5x_vjv0TQk0yVeDFFxzfygo-7JJ6HaYDulb4g5MYHVjU-OJFgMdD6ZTKn7PVh20yCyfC6EBN6qfStENUNJdKCOxESadbjf0vojrOrUDi98SFf3IOhCNkELWZgU5iIqBsKBZ6mkaaWLWxKFyyr2fux9lXSa9J_02Km5bVtIyWKDyMWgy5J0cERslZSrpsHNGChDmtEr9B9aFaqXhjHIRv6kDnZ3DzyVIdUCjfSYvvBUixqhiD3QeYf9cxx3JZ97rp4LGaw8JxBuLziJL-xSbIq6uTGZknfKz63J-_Gu-KBWTWGlzgBgOu2I3CQPPC5-fwAL8bGmI9emDTllJ69tHH6fe1_6Ysn7Ue5686l5ELdh3YGkGfXaJR4u2kbbJ9ohtLFQ=w1343-h755-no

a lovely piston
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/hR34jOhIZKIwKLY2BN6kqGY01AEfZF52xYi8vv33jtodY8VsmhQ8n9dxR4JIbyjMwgoAmXy7o7ox-zNFo5xM7C13dLebfCExHXXnK26SFYPaM7-4R522EJtUc5Z4raFAr4jTFEH1WfyoTJvmbkw6tWqZEXd6GSQ-c_qKfSQP4CBuqBiBivw6jL64hnNIVgr3WNEz6m6sYfwL2w34JeF-cCigOG3PSyWkXMZnJQ399KKYXbE0I4EM1lXDgBk4yQEnn64nt8kd8mGyREC-RlDA-dtKigcAvtvBmYHFQrb-dWSCm_2dp2VzHpW2PYbiODb6iPNX_tx9ru-320b1o-HzX3XbIyhTy5PAx75c-fQZ334B0lr0dxISZR-eDH6kiDs3yKJksXnWJoyelIX5PUZ3xjZ5IdU9cQC2KLRFmh5oIDEuQ1QdKeOoBNSL5JTqaaKUrgDhy9s_DIDqgptnFEE9M3FPBRdzJu3MiQe-osnfWK6xhj8OGXWWx_Mlfn7bYq9rlIz0LId2R0KgxSwgP6ogLQCAYU3g9yBkTpMxp32BcyYk=w1343-h755-no

it didn't show well, but the wrist pin is all kinds of heat effect colored. This section is that nice deep blue that steel gets from being heated.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qYKgFddQN5nWl6H_I5RBxTX11LYy_7EyIGS2T1j7LH6H3hOWWYM0aYCbt-2okWe7raG1mMiTLJ_1-Hua8tf5LiC6aDn6WZX3Gr-jV5J9Ad7neWHb1Q_ArtmaCD8KoxSh5-G-EFXZVrqVpUYYTMDRgCIbFMAx1nn68L3QcXnaKkGY7SlSVFvBJzI_62uNZByabjREzyNl1zOViz43fSHevNBUDILXj7bBz61t04JedBrplkw8N6mz2DxSFarMk0QS3szbRSw33n3qAqze5AxArqDJv68Y5FD4Ay7CGAUn0CJ8OqPcSIT-JzETtF8HQ-FDpCB_6xoSXLRLvQtr_cPXNEWPw2eLdz18nuS9eAW3bL9XRjvQW42phKKBQotnAucrMNV_Csb7h07STf63k7Ql_i8xIQWI_ByygM2JLz2Q-jtlquu2S9O8qvJo74lUidEcsp_UNODoqU8cN4dL2vth-79uiB2PKGn6XDpEZs16eYAmyp91GXYzi_CfZWFjr8KdTMzs6cqZ-QjmTJO-BmmAexl50I7pn7P5XGvR8kNnK-uU=w1343-h755-no

Also didn't photograph well, but there's probably almost 50thousandths clearance now in the wrist pin and piston
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Cv29hRjx56IwMrLRtGrSLgFi5Rziu9E_OvP0vf7kk6NEwj17mWqfqIebcCdQOlIwCw7Wa3QTtB2DlxPIN3RUvT2YJpdz5mfChgU2XIgRMiSufRHCEvrVPvKI8oRN6BZTzFpp_vUZckiUqvK8ROZ59K-Pqrxw4YBcmU_PlJ4O19y1xir0BtyEjPlYLvo4P6o6qfB2bNVaRUagvoH2iFWEyb1gIYcVCvpDpVn7II0CkYiXEq3rSWuCuWqS7G01alvhRmZfVXd6RZhbOPUMi9ONgbAgO3cyWHPkp0QZ8tJQ41Bdo1cPoin2KpWgHUDewFAYvzClnY5hfxTkrHAktXSkQg4ye9RF9Pb-Hw1zKFU6cAUWNPjOloMrd34ZWPOY0Fpaq8W6NlZVKwPlGGQ0e7XTztmBu4H5EGaqpJTo6T4SlcFFo7v_iAQYyl3H0SALHZNyKrCbdgevX5bkfltmQy8fuhWnsPwUjrNQSmG02G7XrGJjcssbZec7PvO1FxYUfop6NzaTnLmI7E9nzTX2o-5sAtwOb4E1LwiufBRXuTuHs2xT=w425-h755-no

I still need to take pictures of the crank journal and cylinder wall.

If pictures aren't working use this link for the album.
https://goo.gl/photos/W9ee2Mn78TFponbP9

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

TheEngineer wrote:

Please share. If my driver had noticed right when it happened (he claims he remembers it losing grip), we could have saved that engine and kept running. Instead I think he tried to drive all the way up and over the hill before the engine locked up on him. Engines only last so long without oil.

TRUTH in That statement  it maybe Lemons but building a new engine every other race is by no means cheap nor is the time spent building it.

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

It's time to give up on a car when it starts tearing itself apart.

Found this one just recently. Lower firewall, the black plastic bit is the steering column cover.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/M9fX5jbMf55PPWInHKUE6ABZdiBkGXop0F1g15c_v1sNuOxjHmGZmoH4K0r-PhPXj5lW_xyG3afJhYoCrKsyAM6dvSNQ038mEnNPnhvXaAHpfVXQ1I0gdKKflyVTxq75PZJrqZ2A6UUCTQ9GCPKgfo7b8oBmOP2EJjUrkQlQJHkHQf5ZBmKelVWAb2M8u5pxtYkW6_YkA646Q0EA8f2733zI9nJWp0loXsCM7T0WyK5pioEtMQg7GR5gvIwhDzWkOZ-YBsnCQA6K4UGIs8GDIQbpGBCCAi8GdTWR9vLs1fz9BCjWLeoB7Wd8whRRsu5b_UIrh7Lnf1ZZKYUUe1Muk1vONBUntPjcedfUn96VxrSrF4dhFYyNJUZy-DFU2az2S6yPuHkRfLJ_jkYzzNSqIPbWyf8_xnXoBYtZDLIdZR-xCWQpSDwFnkKdIbV2FA-NExEXou5JU7-zIxLwkP5vR7Y_GrMUIBzL57b4PRinhWFPkXOkUtIqPKLyrpp5tFLGCFQmWFg9JekYWVlICerk_LrlJKFFZUpi-l4y3EKfBuYD=w1439-h809-no

This really started to get bad this year, was fine when i put the car to bed last winter. Seam where the wheel well meets the side of the car.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pDTx9aGVPWVQ8t9WqBlmk8GGSVUc0NNq37rnSFttUhG0XbNJjPo_aIhmFHLcTIqyEG7UOcc5VhkJIfdNoJcelR2icwyzp1n_GrZHKcnEBgXYP2CIbiLmgXO2rLxAuKcB1OB2vaQsUvHekyZ8cvs8AQcDeAgi2ZH4cfYuE4IVviQ_P8RD4SEId8nvCGt852TGBcHcioqjn7UM4eCyAePAdmu7Mt7VTx6ocnG0Cxmst-GekxCzLMmwKWQIDV5FIGwRkfFxPT_70q-MPDwtebvjklL8BYmtJyVHFm407UYzK0ZUg1ImvFe0PLBdxeMTrHweRE9Zrkjk8lZc4DmcxrJ_y4wqd4TpKR0rDhxm69ZZBK_vaUSTl0v42tgRhTW0w4s0UFu2hf9K78Zb0kf7zf2quzSm-DGW-8re3tjzr_3DytXSLdrrIwM-NFV2iNWVSN1H3CjCL_m4QBZqJFV4acKAR9LPVEJaam7e9Lnz0tWtM-EhgzQQ5ygPcLfPonXikKf6Ee4dpizfFL5wa6UI7vcy_E_VWvu4IwF1CjlICREw3TzM=w456-h809-no

And one more new one. underside of the passenger front frame rail.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_UXxd8sbSyfWmHkllbCJu5YMLUI4HmqSaYB_IXJaeXgOZbNAwkMY9UaAeTxTuVK8XBNiXBk8XZzCQFl-mxPEtr1k8_0hCKFWsRDsQiLkL_U-qwFTuIbTXcDp9TpgP4d_2PoGvc1QDsGEjUqqa2_n8vcPaSeIDDly-e7n7Prf9F5c9nIIc4F20KqD4UrH0tGw6vMjpuou1iSvWKj_ymvNDbw_X4a2Wq9rA8TBbOYjDZoTjI1tbqN1P3FEFxV7TzSuT5kB8-miBuqA65BGV0vuqtFjfkFIiAaSJmsuDK4CRgwlTl00cdOHJV4Hxq6QccwY_uT26cuAEnR0iAoDZwCEBsPB1zxbMrPEzvYazwvDqQGWjtLspFTZgAIeCdZiaIYwVNROMBpZNH1c23DfZq2yQrxg8cLNP7CsN_tscMm1Ja1f7WRThZ0HAznobl7-L-jHEGRBe3VMvcnt4m6fScWA-BntTYI2rZj7NRmuj6fqJ-oQi1i77IpGNPTVtKqaeV_qPbpdAS9jbOH0h4a1skOY-l9s_HSCvlu743OqDKnPF5rb=w1439-h809-no


Sure anything can be fixed with enough time and a welder. But I don't think I could feel safe in the shell anymore.

Started dismantling today. Seat, harness, switch panel are out. Was a sad afternoon.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zyXXBte4-zFVmX86pGtFU3Pm6w9Tjcrd7AKnpH_wi7DpGFva3fqWxjZhLb0G4Zl_cIwrDEgJ9-i2m7nCX1wMk2KsY5qt9PuDUcNC5yyhDj-sP1IQtfSF4xcGbygkBw0N1JUhl2aQrU3jZ_ngL6VxltOUbbk1bdjl_yWsbTsDyr_nnMJtd1OzbwLswN9FPc8u1Qey_6uEvoIdBwSsQzKy_r7PTpMd-F8c59jIeOfKs8hvewtuUTcCm4IWZboBYtPtavVjwGnsR3RKy8uwGpWKzkV47a5pmm15mlZjN4luzqVACWLYHEeBItdRzCNOu3lopNsV_4KYIPQEqdOBkRIsW_plpah7DTFxhq9miaM6L0gjf2zf-BlD6JPWdwS9-PoZSMy6VUCKJ1r51jZBE-wUmZuwgnBKjOPkOQ4B_XbYaAnQD8R-QcG8ln8AXJvUhw3g2gxVjajQnv3kkS1r6ERg3vMCahf68NGRUN6fJdj23t0tiRMyl-M8UbbyMbGMyw_M2HpmOI0ROJdQGaIoNMMBhJ_onImAShxdr6bTnAllB4ru=w1439-h809-no

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Fare thee well Viking.  You have served valiantly against great opposition.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

219

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Pictures aren't showing up for me...

We'll pour one out for the Daytona...but it went out with a way better life than it ever would if it had never met you.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

RIP. sad I'd be leery of that one, too.

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

The Final Chapter

The daytona is gone. It's been 3 days and I'm still not used to walking outside and not seeing it.

On saturday my dad drove the trailer up and we pulled the final pieces out of the car that I'm saving. The last step was to cut out a few bars from the cage. I wanted an X-bar to hang on the wall, and we grabbed the harness bar and diagonal bar in case we need a few extra tubes for the new car. Stupid sentimental thoughts about carrying on old pieces in the new car. Each bar, as the sawsall broke through the tube would snap and violently jump in some direction as some built up tension or torque was finally relieved. I know some of this is just from welding in the cage, tubes forced tight and welded in place. But i'm fairly sure that some of it is from the car becoming more and more tired over the years, putting more and more stress on the cage to keep it together.

Lastly I pulled the hood. I don't know why I wanted it, but I do. Now I just need to find it a home on the garage wall. I'd put it in the living room but I think my roommate might have some words to express on that one. The shell was dropped off at the local recycler, and so ends the saga of our terrible daytona.

A few pictures from it's last day.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/fHuo0nPpkn_eVEKygWWRBdmlCNut3Y4EgwKqKaNV-DZXdN322TuyOCApkPGhzCnT9B-QAzRpe0maCzS35024GEHM3V_e8JwTvkNf1CFmPhzgmSaYl1KidVwbZ75G0cnNxPpVqy7IexBGNkKcQqURfav0LvkdYwbJqM1LKmGmOIVNr1VtTKUdqxtUoXnmXpGxhH02mY6KeJpVFw9FuoZZeOUM9YRIEmb2WC4f_c-qJ3gR4Z6n26TcXmF_MUAjUPX-pNndzyAdMzglbAHs5ZplQh0rDUKjLT_WlcQLfeqxM6KnDNgwfrYuR8hnXogd37OeO8tfNKMvPxY3YJq_UM9lGpBs2Xp67c5KgZyJQnBizy9EPYZ_-9thuBISwFBRNInuX_phZ3qmpfMHK0dkmdtfS4lCbOh7VGjpb9jdHzg6iqmmhUFmtFilHfzvtsFjwSGAZsYPCjDgYQSxdcFrVTKtTAm6O9Olv-MDycL1k83bbdKKTKY0uxK20Fo8EMWTMKeyP6UJIsqiBfppHgBkdTNj-MbZtOnxirWPeFRqNE_3v4DV=w1513-h851-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Q1Y6_BuyJPCiCQ3wXlhcDdQFZYGmZs_HXNiz_I19nZPJJMoT-g9CeErKdjTa5cYYrS_YgYxKkaeRZeo3YeFJS98Nj-aUDElXxcSKGp8qTZ3_hZCGT_wcxdwj2lQkwk7qN4Xp2hJQDPtUi6YoyeqBo69mUS3ZVF_jnZ4A9CLr1L1NuAyt4U4gf0vwJTAbsR7ssnTWIDQPEbh17eFV4R0AP3hwiK_2HdqIMlGrIQVzK3lMThsXOA62pxeVgtau_v2KqEm9u8rgaJW_4dyIbyr48ihicEYtCr_MyPjxGnUcKww4wzHAAo1FS4bYaVpD02vbQ05s4-3MIr3ar-Z93axW5byXKhzyKuIcYTD67Sf9u53IWmFU_WW1hDX4sxwEdZH1t0BQO-r0IxKw4jVTX9AfstQzOgXTCLD7q0TZUghFNMAk1vHNHAGaOxJntoRE8RcP4nyt1OlW845qiSv_2gupjjpFyt6J-sKSqiL5WyjEkD8u2oCVhOMo-tndmr_DwbzAZkqDoGEtedkAgvgLw8_rrnJSWI2pgphbkEdDwshE4C7r=w1513-h851-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/rDFsy_CbHWeVVngdC677p0CrULSwt5Xp4EguaGKCHAR8Z3EG14rBrzsqNC0QMcSK2OqGsej7aL0Vat5mvaDiZFR5UjfoGMJzoqU3CCNdJZ4MfSt1FFKt4EaAO1RbiKLDMRhcV0zjX8S078SsSEqS4m8VweSxtFYF7sT8meEaJuIzu7PXJt_dzW5B_JieGihT7dZRj_w3u2bkSuIdzq3UjHJNSO4LE7xHm5GP2mCE_9v2SRQcpKFumV8xekpJKo2Q11_qjSlamYeaaZGCxKt95BfJZolEmqVwzVfy4a0616ty7OYe85I07GK30KjW2Uc63Tl0mm6epFznNxD9GMSn8cgHTA3Bm8WbETwUA2dkB7TP-ePDhAak7pwfMuNLX2PDtdPIL_gzUsI1F-hI1reF8xu4phj4hB3RiA1Q1MBQhckMja-zsnn8bPBd97GWPdf29eiqCgBWsDnXnMtjMLicty2mjk8Fy3CxMU6vjFdl16tVqpHPdB2JyGVXTIej_6QR7QiERhFmfSO9q0rzIINH-3VqSfVh6H2r9GCwbzgewMda=w1513-h851-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0d9HGD48KZlZUsoeE_3GtkZkXwORvfmqCLcgRxmAg_x8HrlsfXuXnP2dj2GeXmhXtfhKVssPVxyYzILsgKDo2b27vRPIph7ZI14ahyuk3gmEvZKRyBx91-PEErDQSfjSBo5OpVJuAOgMtbiezpa2SoKl618uJeyUbRkuOwJbFuiQo92_PFDXk9vrwYHB_pIsMcaWtRZmFkhgBCqc2ZKJKFdgab4qWwOY4PrtKdsTvsBEOCm9DMHyMrcllk98jQrmgxkse9ZEmL_cjdVKjaD56MCdafdbO9Anpq7kUsR6inQu22j4KCPXiZK9_CRgxZOWNKvyTGkE30F86R-uez78xJ4S3pHMui2QpDMCn93YD83CpgcaAU5WWfnF6dDdBl7DFc1e6_mCgSFFhZjMcYoOHOsFxgYlYjdQ-myu7EYHo4t0Bmz_agsdv8JScnpMTVLnOQuXKMx0pb7oyWQvWtW6_I6rOHaJsKriAFNXRrxIolsPZpguxkXm4FwWQaTI0UqzeEnkCNn8wdZRc5eOW86o7z8T_V8nP97ajQOLWfBzQn_I=w1513-h851-no

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

Just to recap the failure.

I had this happen once with summit brand push-loc hose and fittings.... was this the same?

Did the driver not notice the oil pressure gage sitting at zero? Do you think a gage with an alarm would've saved the day?

Mike @ Charnal House Inc.
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Re: Chronicles of a Lemons Daytona

shamwow wrote:

Just to recap the failure.

I had this happen once with summit brand push-loc hose and fittings.... was this the same?

Did the driver not notice the oil pressure gage sitting at zero? Do you think a gage with an alarm would've saved the day?


yes, was a push-loc hose that failed. And yes, driver failed to look at the gauge even when the car lost traction mid corner. I hadn't gotten around to installing a giant idiot light which absolutely would have saved the day.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice