Topic: Ford Transmission Help

Hey,

My friends and I have a 95 Ford Escort GT that is race ready except for the transmission that is busted.  We're on a tight budget, like everyone and replacements are hard to come by.  We have the 1.8L engine with the Mazda G5M transmission.  The internet says that this transmission come in a bunch of different cars like the Escort ZX2 and the Ford Escape/ Mazda Tribute.  I also see it in different generations of the Escort.  My question is will these fit into our 95. (Mostly one for a 97 Escort, which I have found).  I need a Ford expert to tell me what will fit, whats different between the years, what I can do to mod them to make it fit or if were hosed.  Thanks.

James

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

2 (edited by OnkelUdo 2015-11-02 03:52 PM)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

When I was researching this for my renter's gen I Escort it came down to...if you have the 1.8 Mazda motor, almost EVERYTHING will fit except anything bolted to the 1.9 but these guys seem to know it all...

http://www.feoa.net/threads/5-speed-tra … nge.83599/

This site shows you how to tear it down

http://mazda626.net/topic/40913-g-serie … -lsd-swap/

That said, those second gen Escorts are seeming plentiful while Gen I are not.

Where are you because PnP will likely be having their 1/2 thanksgiving day weekend sale in just a few weeks.  ZX2's in particular are plentiful around here as they seem to be wrecked...a lot by teens as a first car.

Re: Ford Transmission Help

What's broken on your transmission? Complete transmissions will not swap. The internals are very similar, but bell housing patterns are different.

Re: Ford Transmission Help

If you have any other issues or reservations about that BP engine or trans for the long term, you'd do well to just swap in the ZX2 engine and trans complete. It'll bolt in to a 2nd gen chassis. There's wiring to deal with, but I could talk you through it if you're interested. My first Lemons car was a second gen Escort with a ZX2 swap.

Re: Ford Transmission Help

I'm not sure if it will bolt up.  The mtx75 out of a Ford focus is a decent trans.  Lots of them  in the wrecking yards.   Worth looking into.

Duck it racing #97

Re: Ford Transmission Help

if you have the 1.8 Mazda motor, almost EVERYTHING will fit except anything bolted to the 1.9

We have the 1.8 so this is great news.  I'll definitely post on that forum to make sure it will work.

Where are you because PnP will likely be having their 1/2 thanksgiving day weekend sale in just a few weeks

I'm in the Hartford CT area, and the car is up in the Boston area.  We are just staring out and could use some good junkyards.  I have contacted a few but did not have much luck.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: Ford Transmission Help

pinkshinyalan wrote:

What's broken on your transmission? Complete transmissions will not swap. The internals are very similar, but bell housing patterns are different.

We are not 100% sure, it is still on the car, but the team we bought it from said they thought it was the synchros going and then they bent a shift fork.

Do you know if we could swap the bell housing?  When I was looking at it the other day I thought I saw two sections to the housing, could we swap out the portion that just connects to the engine?.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: Ford Transmission Help

pinkshinyalan wrote:

If you have any other issues or reservations about that BP engine or trans for the long term, you'd do well to just swap in the ZX2 engine and trans complete. It'll bolt in to a 2nd gen chassis. There's wiring to deal with, but I could talk you through it if you're interested. My first Lemons car was a second gen Escort with a ZX2 swap.

I am not sure, I read that the G5M tranny is weak as hell and breaks easily.  Doing an engine swap is probably the right choice but since we are just starting and we are all pretty inexperienced wrenching on car we just want to get it running and on the track before we go crazy and pull engines out.  The tranny swap looks manageable for us right now.   Maybe if we blow this engine up we'll swap in the ZX2 engine and trans.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: Ford Transmission Help

Joe wrote:

I'm not sure if it will bolt up.  The mtx75 out of a Ford focus is a decent trans.  Lots of them  in the wrecking yards.   Worth looking into.

Thanks I'll ask some Ford nerds, see what they say.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

10 (edited by racerxr 2015-11-02 07:44 PM)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

I believe the G25M-R from the 2.0L Mazda 626's will fit.  I think it's in the 2.0L Probes and MX-6's too.  We've got 13 races on a couple G25M's in the 626.  The syncros in the original tans were very weak and we eventually lost 3rd gear after 4-5 races.  The replacement has been rock solid.

Edit: fixed the transmission number.

2012 North Dallas Hooptie Judge's Choice Winners
If life gives you Lemons, install racing brakes!
https://www.facebook.com/JoBoRacing

Re: Ford Transmission Help

mully006 wrote:

I'm in the Hartford CT area, and the car is up in the Boston area.  We are just staring out and could use some good junkyards.  I have contacted a few but did not have much luck.

We are in the Hartford area and bought our 09 Lemons car with a bad trans out of the Boston area.......

Weird.......

Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: Ford Transmission Help

mully006 wrote:

if you have the 1.8 Mazda motor, almost EVERYTHING will fit except anything bolted to the 1.9

We have the 1.8 so this is great news.  I'll definitely post on that forum to make sure it will work.

Where are you because PnP will likely be having their 1/2 thanksgiving day weekend sale in just a few weeks

I'm in the Hartford CT area, and the car is up in the Boston area.  We are just staring out and could use some good junkyards.  I have contacted a few but did not have much luck.

Use Row52 to find self-service yards in your area.

There are two Pick-n-Pull brand PnP's in Rhode Island and they are ones that run holiday weekend 50% off sales almost every holiday.

Always your BEST bet is a running, driving parts car.  Drive it home and around until whatever temporary tag your jurisdiction uses expires, pull the whole subframe, tank, and all electronic bits out then take the shell to the recycling yard and get about $100-150 for it.  This all assuming you have space, tools and a trailer.  Even if this busts the budget by $100-200 it will be money WAY ahead when stuff breaks at the track and you have the spare right there.

Re: Ford Transmission Help

You're talking to one of the biggest Ford Escort nerds right here.

The MTX75 is out of the Contour and Focus. It will not bolt up to the 1.8 and it will not mount in the Escort chassis without a lot of custom work.

The G5M transmission does fine. The gears will hold up, but the shift forks don't like abuse. If your drivers can be gentle with the shifter, the forks won't bend and it'll last a long time. If you have a lot of arrive-and-drive people on your team, don't expect them to actually treat it nicely; in that situation, you'll need to change forks about every 5 races.

The differential and gear sets hold up just fine. What kills the diff is hard launches. So unless you're going to autocross or drag race the car, you won't have problems. They're durable under road race use.

I don't know if you can swap bell housings, but I'd say it's likely. However, this requires that you completely disassemble the transmission and move the case half and internals to the other bell housing. Not worth the trouble.

The internals are similar, but I wouldn't bet on being able to use ZX2 forks in an Escort GT. You could try it, but the fork diameters might be different.

Your best bet, it sounds like from the Mazda experts above, is to use a transmission out of another Mazda, like the 626. I can't personally confirm whether they work. In my mind, the transmission from a four-cylinder MX-3 is more likely to bolt in. The 626 used an F-series Mazda engine, the 323 used a 1.6-liter B-series engine that's near identical to your 1.8.

What OnkelUdo said about "anything from other Escorts will fit except anything bolted to the 1.9" means all chassis components. Sway bars, brakes, subframes, steering. Since you have an Escort GT, you already have the best components--there are no junkyard upgrades unless you luck upon aftermarket stuff. Be aware that Escorts with 13-inch wheels had smaller front brakes--those calipers won't work. Escort GT and first-gen Mazda Miata will be your only source for used rear calipers.

You can upgrade to aftermarket ZX2 springs if you use ZX2 strut hats. The Eibach and H&R springs made for the ZX2 are the best choices, and you can usually find a used set for cheap on TeamZX2.com. If you want to go super-cheaty, Koni strut inserts for a Mazda MX-3 will fit. Swapping in front lower control arms from a Mazda MX-3 will add a half-inch of track width to the car with no other modifications. You'll need to drill a hole in the MX-3 control arm to slip the sway bar link through, but otherwise it bolts up.

Re: Ford Transmission Help

pinkshinyalan wrote:

I don't know if you can swap bell housings, but I'd say it's likely. However, this requires that you completely disassemble the transmission and move the case half and internals to the other bell housing. Not worth the trouble.

The internals are similar, but I wouldn't bet on being able to use ZX2 forks in an Escort GT. You could try it, but the fork diameters might be different.

Your best bet, it sounds like from the Mazda experts above, is to use a transmission out of another Mazda, like the 626. I can't personally confirm whether they work. In my mind, the transmission from a four-cylinder MX-3 is more likely to bolt in. The 626 used an F-series Mazda engine, the 323 used a 1.6-liter B-series engine that's near identical to your 1.8.

What OnkelUdo said about "anything from other Escorts will fit except anything bolted to the 1.9" means all chassis components. Sway bars, brakes, subframes, steering. Since you have an Escort GT, you already have the best components--there are no junkyard upgrades unless you luck upon aftermarket stuff. Be aware that Escorts with 13-inch wheels had smaller front brakes--those calipers won't work. Escort GT and first-gen Mazda Miata will be your only source for used rear calipers.

You can upgrade to aftermarket ZX2 springs if you use ZX2 strut hats. The Eibach and H&R springs made for the ZX2 are the best choices, and you can usually find a used set for cheap on TeamZX2.com. If you want to go super-cheaty, Koni strut inserts for a Mazda MX-3 will fit. Swapping in front lower control arms from a Mazda MX-3 will add a half-inch of track width to the car with no other modifications. You'll need to drill a hole in the MX-3 control arm to slip the sway bar link through, but otherwise it bolts up.

This is really helpful.  We will make sure we are gentle on the starts to not wreck the new transmission.  The tips on the ZX2 upgrades will be helpful in the future.  We just want to get out and race first before we start doing additional upgrades.  I will need to check the wheel size and what brakes are on it.  I will keep looking to see if I can find a transmission out of a Mazda that will fit.  I also found this car https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/5256833681.html that we might get as a parts car.  What do you think of that car?

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

15 (edited by coolhand454 2015-11-03 01:37 PM)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

I have one question:

Are you using diff oil (75w-90 or similar) or recommend ATF?

I ask this because we ran our Escort for five years (2/12 of these years with the transmission half full - my bad) with diff oil. We had one transmission failure at the track and that was when I decided to use the recommended ATF fluid.

I was told that ATF was used in manuals transmissions because possible clutch material. I have opened our transmission and found no such thing.

We beat the shit out of this transmission when we had the gear oil in it. No fork issues.

It wouldn't hurt smile

Byte Marks Racing - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred."
1992 Nissan 240SX DM Edition (Drift Master)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

coolhand454 wrote:

I have one question:

Are you using diff oil (75w-90 or similar) or recommend ATF?


I have no idea whats in it now.  We just got the car after the Louden race, and the transmission came broken.  I am not sure what we will run when we race.  I'll have to do some research.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

17 (edited by OnkelUdo 2015-11-03 01:37 PM)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

coolhand454 wrote:

I was told that ATF was used in manuals transmissions because possible clutch material. I have opened are transmission and found no such thing.

Outside of motorcycles with wet clutches, I find that the clutch material tends to stay outside the transmission with the clutch on manual transmissions.

Might be syncro material as I know the fluid requirements start getting interesting when exotic syncro materials are used (NV4500 verses NV3500).

Re: Ford Transmission Help

My theory (translation: I am pulling this out of my ass) is the diff oil can handle higher temps than ATF fluid.

Byte Marks Racing - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred."
1992 Nissan 240SX DM Edition (Drift Master)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

mully006 wrote:

I read that the G5M tranny is weak as hell and breaks easily

Not true.

Ford Festiva from around Philadelphia uses the 1.8 BP engine with this gearbox and they have just rebuild one of these transmissions and I believe they did replace the forks just in case - and this was just preventive rebuild after about 10 races.

Since you just got a car and do not have much experience so far I suggest you just go with same exact transmission, which in your case is Escort GT or Protege LX with the same DOHC engine.

Re: Ford Transmission Help

Have you already called this guy? http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/5256833681.html

contact name:
justin
call or text:
☎ (845) 706-5921

Re: Ford Transmission Help

Since my original G25M transmission broke 3rd gear due to gimpy syncros, I have been using Valvoline Synchromesh MTF.  No problems with syncros or gear failures in the 8-9 races since switching to it for the junkyard G25M that replaced the original.

2012 North Dallas Hooptie Judge's Choice Winners
If life gives you Lemons, install racing brakes!
https://www.facebook.com/JoBoRacing

Re: Ford Transmission Help

russian wrote:

Have you already called this guy? http://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/cto/5256833681.html

contact name:
justin
call or text:
☎ (845) 706-5921

No not yet.  I need to talk with my team to see if they want to go in on it.

Moot Point Racing - 1991 Volvo 240 - #496

Re: Ford Transmission Help

I have had an issue with using heavy weight gear oil in place of the spec ATF in a manual trans.  Mainly, the cyncros stopped doing their job of matching the different speeds of the two gears to be joined.  What I read is that the thicker gear oil causes them to slip instead of grab the cone on the gear.  I replaced gear oil with the mfg spec ATF and the trans again shifted as normal.

24 (edited by Guildenstern 2015-11-04 12:21 AM)

Re: Ford Transmission Help

This was from the Big Escort Forum when I was still trying to make a mechanically sound 94 Escort shaped rust pile into a Lemons car and had to tear my G5M apart to replace the selector finger thingy the previous owner managed to snap in half trying to drive the car without a working clutch slave cylinder. Sadly I offloaded the car in June. There's probably a pull-A-part with that transmission and a pink escort shaped rust container sitting near here somewhere.

There are two different diameters of drive-axles used in the BG and EC chassis cars. There is the F-series transmission and G-series transmission found in these vehicles. All of these cars have identical wheel bearings, hubs and brake calipers and rotors/drums, and use the same brakepads and shoes. I will break down the cars in terms of which use F-series transmission and which use G-series transmissions: *Please note this does not mean these transmissions are interchangeable with these cars. It means that you can interchange internals from one to another.*

F-Series transmissions:

1990-1994 Mazda Protege DX and Mazda 323
1991-1996 Ford Escort Pony, LX 3 and 5 door hatchbacks and 4-door sedans and Mercury Tracer (base)
1992-1995 Mazda MX-3 RS


G-Series Transmissions:

1990-1994 Mazda Protege LX
1991-1996 Ford Escort GT, LX-E and Mercury Tracer LTS and Ford Escort Wagon
1992-1994 Mazda MX-3 GS
1997-2003 Ford Escort and Mercury Tracer with 2.0 SPI engine
1997-2004 Ford ZX2
Gear Ratio:        1           2        3        4          5         R     Final
91+ 1.8         3.307   1.833  1.310  1.030  0.795  3.166   4.105

So you could at least hunt for a new fork with any of these. It's a really easy transmission to open up, don't fear it, but be ready for a couple detent balls to try and find the darkest corner of your shop.

I have the Ford 1994 Shop Manual and wire diagram if you are interested it covers the complete tear down of the Transmission.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Ford Transmission Help

If you read a Mazda Protege owner's manual, factory fill is gear oil. The Ford manual calls for ATF. Since the transmissions are identical, it stands to reason that either one will work under street use.

We ran Pennzoil Synchromesh, which served us very well. The guys on the ZX2 forum swear by it.