Topic: Working AC?

The car I've picked up to build has working AC. Can I leave it intact? In Kentucky summers race cars should have working AC. I'm also looking for helpful hints for a newbie. I've very capable of doing anything mechanical the car needs but I know very little about racing seats and safety gear. Thanks in advance.

Re: Working AC?

AC will do you 0 good and depending on the car, could cost you the race (our Dustbuster minivan).  Having just run NCM, you CAN run a first time team/car without additional cooling because you are going to be smart and run short stints so everyone gets to drive before you break.

Now long term, a cool shirt set-up if you are normal or a cool seat setup is you are weird like us is a very good idea.  The former is more effective but more expensive and complicated while the latter is just as effective but by its nature will use more ice to do so.

Search this forum for newbie suggestions as it is extensively covered.  That said:

Cars are easy, people are hard...paying, reliable useful team members are impossible to find
"How not to fail Tech" print one copy for each team member and your cage builder.
It takes about $4000-6000 to get to your first race
Do not sweat the budget, sweat passing tech...take the laps if you get them because you cannot win your first race.

Re: Working AC?

Thanks for the reply! I'll just stay focused on getting the car race ready.

Re: Working AC?

And getting a team...from experience, sucks doing that first race solo.  Post where you are, lots of teams in the general area...might find someone local t come over and drink your beer while giving advice.

Re: Working AC?

Welcome to the asylum!

You will be surprised at how hot you can get racing a car wearing an insulating fire-resistant onesie, gloves and helmet. Even on nominally cool days. Cool shirt will be good for that, even if you just blip it on now and then.

Also, I'd say print out the rules and go through them at least twice making notes.

25X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 Rust-Tite Merkur - 9 years (when do I get to stop?).

Re: Working AC?

AC likely won't help unless you get clever and figure out how to use it to cool your cool shirt water.
That's probably not something to focus on for a first race though. Get the car ready, aim for reliable, and turn laps. After that you can figure out what the car /drivers need.
My preference would be to leave the ac in. Maybe leave the ac belt off / use an ac bypass belt if the setup allows.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Working AC?

I recently had to put AC back in to an old gutted track car for a cross-country trip. After closing the windows to fire up the AC, I found that a lot of heat comes off of the firewall and floors after you remove the padding and carpet. I'm considering leaving the padding and carpet in my next Lemons car just to make it cooler on long stints. Does the extra few pounds of weight reduction beat the increase in driver fatigue from the heat in a 2-hour stint? Studies have shown that after 45 minutes in a hot race car, errors increase and lap times go up. Maybe a few extra pounds of insulation will result in better finishes?

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Working AC?

rmcdaniels wrote:

I'm considering leaving the padding and carpet in my next Lemons car just to make it cooler on long stints. Does the extra few pounds of weight reduction beat the increase in driver fatigue from the heat in a 2-hour stint?

From the "rules":

Carpets, insulation, and plastics will burn quickly and release poisonous fumes; strip as much of these out of the cockpit as practical.

Methinks tech would frown on your idea......

45+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
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(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: Working AC?

Per the rules, front windows have to either be removed or rolled down behind intact door panels. That, plus being in a fire suit, will make AC all but useless in a race.

The AC compressor is just another failure point. If it seizes up and causes your belt(s) to shred, you're gonna have a bad day.

Sorry For Party Racing! - 1985 Pontiac Firebird - Car #35

A race car exists only in two states: broken or in the process of becoming that way.

Re: Working AC?

piper.gras wrote:

The AC compressor is just another failure point. If it seizes up and causes your belt(s) to shred, you're gonna have a bad day.


Not to mention most A/C compressors disengage their clutch at WOT, so unless you're just putting around it won't really even be working.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Working AC?

Why not keep the AC and do an underdrive pulley? You can run the venting to air cool a seat, helmet and it'll clear/dehumidify a windshield in the wet.

Re: Working AC?

VKZ24 wrote:
piper.gras wrote:

The AC compressor is just another failure point. If it seizes up and causes your belt(s) to shred, you're gonna have a bad day.


Not to mention most A/C compressors disengage their clutch at WOT, so unIless you're just putting around it won't really even be working.

Most every AC condenser I've seen sits in front of the radiator which will impact your radiators' cooling if you are using it to bleed heat out of the A/C system. Also, if you have an automatic transmission, you could consider repurposing the condenser as a giant FREE ATF cooler so keeping A/C working removes that option.

The other downside to keeping the A/C system fully operational is that you would need to keep the side/rear windows on the car or install/remove them before/after every race. I kept the glass for my first race (just rolled down the windows) and was surprised to find that we were talking about a fairly substantial amount of weight (well over 100Lbs considering I had side windows, the metal window frame and interior skin, , rear pass windows, and a giant rear window).

As alternative solutions, a 12V bilge fan is a cheap defroster.

Myopic Motorsport's #888 Ceci n'est pas une Citron Thunderbird ("This is not a lemon" but a 1995 tbird w/ 93 V8 swap + shopping cart rear wing + engine mounted frito maker)
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Re: Working AC?

I ran a car with functioning AC. If there is going to be substantial rain, it's 100% worth it. In NH last year, and then the monsoon in NJ this year, we had crystal clear windows all around because our defrost worked perfectly. It will not keep your car cool, but damn does it keep the windows  clear. Most of the other cars with their bilge fans and rags on sticks were complaining the whole time because they couldn't see. Those days in the rain were glorious.

That said we exploded an AC line and it hasn't been worth refilling. We're likely taking the system out now and just relying on the good HVAC blower in future rain.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Working AC?

What's the possibility of running a roof scoop like some rally cars? I know their primary function is to produce a positive pressure environment in the car to keep dust out, but they can also be set up to point air directly at the driver. Seems like an easy low budget solution that just requires some intimacy with an angle grinder and the rivet gun.

Re: Working AC?

SubaruTome wrote:

What's the possibility of running a roof scoop like some rally cars?

I did it. But, that was in 2008. I'd run it past HQ/TEO to see if any additional requirements might exist.
Be sure to make some air guides, as mine mostly let air out the backlight.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
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Re: Working AC?

DelinquentRacer wrote:
SubaruTome wrote:

What's the possibility of running a roof scoop like some rally cars?

I did it. But, that was in 2008. I'd run it past HQ/TEO to see if any additional requirements might exist.
Be sure to make some air guides, as mine mostly let air out the backlight.

Depending on the application and HQ/TEO's approval, this might also be a good way to get extra use out of having a sunroof.

Re: Working AC?

I've seen plenty of teams do it. Make sure your arm can't fly out of whatever you install in a roll over.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Working AC?

I put a hood scoop on the roof of my non-LeMons car. A 6" hole saw and a duct adapter from Lowes with a piece of semi-rigid ducting gets the air where you want it. For the scoop I used a plastic fake hood scoop that sticks on the car with double-sided tape that was in the bling section at Advance Auto Parts. Team SOB uses hardware store dryer vents turned backwards to act like hood scoops. They stick out the passenger window hole and a piece of rigid duct aims at the driver. I'm probably going to do that to our Mercedes. Here's a picture of my roof scoop, it's just behind the driver seat on the roof and you can see the 6" duct through the window:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-stuff-picture6650-alldone2.jpg

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Working AC?

It is quite unbearable without AC installed in summer, can't imagine how you are gonna do without it.

Re: Working AC?

stevense wrote:

It is quite unbearable without AC installed in summer, can't imagine how you are gonna do without it.

You race right?  the AC does nothing with no side glass and a full fire suit.  Or was this sarcasm?  If so, you forgot the sarcasm font.

Re: Working AC?

While we're on the subject of race car AC, has anyone ever built a refrigerant-based cool shirt cooling system?

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Working AC?

rmcdaniels wrote:

While we're on the subject of race car AC, has anyone ever built a refrigerant-based cool shirt cooling system?

Not in the car, but yes. I built one from a window AC to use in the pits at hot races. fantastic for when you climb out of the car overheated and feeling gross. Supports 3 people as pictured. I have the parts to add 2 more loops. Cheap temp controller keeps everything right within +/-2 degrees of set point. Add antifreeze if you want to set below 34F or so.

https://scontent.fbed1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20645109_990125784462652_6769728812804327950_o.jpg?oh=d944fe164c1005ddea2a8831c353d984&oe=5A47609A

https://scontent.fbed1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20663872_990125794462651_1691062100115033395_n.jpg?oh=ea3e4a5690be4da985dad641934a11df&oe=5A4053CD

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Working AC?

Did you separate the condenser out of it or was there enough tubing in it to get it out in front of the unit?

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

24 (edited by TheEngineer 2017-09-21 09:07 PM)

Re: Working AC?

rmcdaniels wrote:

Did you separate the condenser out of it or was there enough tubing in it to get it out in front of the unit?

Didn't touch the refrigeration system at all. I took the cover off the AC, removed all the brackets, cut the fan shaft to remove the blower fan, and cut back the the shell of the unit. That lets the condenser sit out a little way. Cut a slot in the cooler to pass the tubing through the slot, then seal it back up with expanding foam and silicone.

I didn't take a ton of pictures or document it well, but I read this thread before building mine, and he documented it really well.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1517671/wind … r-chillbox


EDIT:  I wired it in such a way that the heat removal fan is on whenever the unit is plugged in, and then the compressor is wired through a solid state relay to cycle on and off. The controller is a cheap temp controller off amazon. It has settings built in for min delay to protect compressors. There's two switches next to the controller. One turns on the circulation pump that keeps water passing through the evap core in the cooler. The second turns on the bildge pump to circulate water through the shirt loop.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Working AC?

Thanks, I've been wanting to do that for a while now and that lays it all out. I actually have everything (including the temp controller) sitting here to do that from an earlier project making a lagering cooler (before I decided to just make ales). Lagering requires more patience than I have.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!