Topic: Is Lemons dangerous?

I just briefly browsed through the tech session and holy shit I'm scared. I come from a racing world where people do things properly and safely. They don't shoot first and ask questions later.

I'm scared enough that I'm considering not attempting to enter. If you can't even buy (or follow) a factory manual I don't want to be on the track with you. Is that the norm? If that's the norm I'd like to call it to the attention of the event organizers. This makes for unsafe cars and now knowing this, your event insurance premiums should reflect this.

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Come to a race and see.  tech is at noon on Fridays.

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

All racing is dangerous.  So is Lemons.  No more, no less.

You've been asking a lot of questions that would get answered in short order by spectating a race.  Pick one close to you and plan to spend at least Friday and Saturday at the track.  Most of us are pretty friendly and love showing off our hard work.

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Yes, it is.  To your:

-Mental Health
-Bank Account
-Personal Relationships

I feel safer driving on a racetrack than I do on the interstate.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Dont take this the wrong way but i think you need to chill and just show up at an event.  are there people out there that have no clue what their doing? yes absolutely  are there people out there that have all the knowledge  absolutely.  If your looking to have fun with a "race car" then build a car and show up, you wont regret it i promise.  "unsafe" cars wont pass tech.  are all the cars built to a high caliber hell no, but for the most part anyones cars wont hurt you, but accidents can and will happen, it is racing. 

The diversity is kinda awesome at the track,  and people are full on making motors from 2 or 3 blown up ones on sat like Dr. Frankenstein  the cars are funny, some are slow, some are fast, but there's always a good race going on in there.  Its my first year of Lemons and i am totally hooked, and i'm a pretty serious technical car person who takes it pretty seriously.


Also first race you'll probably fail miserably but it makes the second race that much better!

959 Toyota Tercel   6x Lemons loser

New England Area roll cages send me an email I'm in Central MA

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

The actual racing is very safe.  The things that can hurt you when they fail are checked for safety (cage, belts, fuel).  There have been two deaths that I'm aware of on track in the last 10 years.  Both were heart attacks. 

Where you are most likely to get hurt is in the pits: burning your fingers on a hot rotor or smashing your hand while pulling an engine.

Our Lady of Perpetual Downforce
http://www.perpetualdownforce.com/

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

there are 100 cars on a tarck, some are much much faster than others. however I don't think it is physically dangerous, you might get the car banged up...

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Be sure to go to a the Friday before the race and watch cars going through tech.  When there is a lull in the tech ask questions to the people teching or Jay or Nick, or the the judges and they will be sure to clarify any of your questions.

Lemons takes safety seriously.  If you look at the rule book you will notice it is almost all about safety.

As for reading the factory manual, there is a difference from not being able to understand the manual, and just ignoring it.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Yes it is dangerous.

Period.

You can die.

No Joke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h01Enj8zHTY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX0kZGQJmnA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9gy2VTMo2g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5WTW0qwdzs

https://youtu.be/k3bo-NrOv0w?t=182

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlVRvi-WrDs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=422ro2A … e=youtu.be

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

BoB wrote:

As for reading the factory manual, there is a difference from not being able to understand the manual, and just ignoring it.

I would have to cobble together 4 factory manuals to cover all the assemblies on the DelSol.  At this point the manual is really just a suggestion.

Apparently my name is really "Craigers".  Who knew?
We might be yellow, but at least we are slow
I'm a WINNER!

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Hold on. I know this is the noob section and I can't be mean. But you're really questioning the safety because one guy jumped on and asked for tips removing his rear subframe? Dude. chill out.

If the fact that none (or almost none) of us are trained factory techs scares you, then this is not the place for you. Sure some are more mechanically inclined then others, but every car gets inspected before it hits the track. This is also the series that rewards creative out of the box repairs (that are still safe). This is also the series where literally any team would jump in and help you fix something, or lend you tools/parts. Asking for help is not to be shamed.

Every car gets inspected and held to the same safety standards. In general this means they are all very safe. But this is racing, and things go wrong. Every now and then an accident is going to happen. Thankfully the standards are high enough that just about every car can protect it's driver if it happens.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

12 (edited by gtopat 2017-09-19 07:58 AM)

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Edit: Sorry, flame-free forum.

Interceptor Motorsports
351w Foxy T-Bird - Class B Winner!, 440 Bluesmobile - Judges Choice, Org Choice & IOE!, Camero, Fuego Turbo - Heroic Fix & IOE!

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

I come from a racing world where people do things properly and safely.

Which racing world is this?  I've been racing for 30+ years in many different forms of motorsport and I can honestly say that this is not the case.  The best you can get is that people adhere to the rules only if there are going to be checks.  Otherwise, people would risk life and limb and gerry-rig their car without a second thought.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

I guess the best way to answer that is to watch safety tech and see how many cars get failed for minor and major things.  It's not entirely uncommon to see a team on friday cutting out a cage and starting over.  Also not unheard of to see a team spend 80% of the weekend getting a car to pass safety tech.  Note that there are two parts to tech, the safety portion and the BS portion.  Tech is the serious one where bribing buys you nothing.  Also note that they black flag you for spins or 2 wheels off pavement.  They take safety very seriously.  As should you.  Why?  Because it's racing and racing can be dangerous.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Ever been to a local dirt track race?  Safety tech is pretty much non-existent.  DOM tubing for a roll cage?  Nah, go to Joe's muffler shop and he'll make you a cage for $75.  Roll bar padding?  Nah, just use that pipe insulation from Lowes.  SA-rated, full faced, in-date helmet?  Nah, just use any open-faced one from 1970.  Required HANS device?  Nah, your neck will be fine w/o one.  In-date harness?  Nah, get a used one from any 1980's era NASCAR.

Yes, racing is dangerous, but most of us do all we can to avoid injury to ourselves and others.  For those who don't, the tech inspectors are there to be sure they comply.  Lemons enforces their rules, and those who don't play by them, get a trip home.

As a rule of thumb, you are far more likely to be injured on the way TO the track, than you are ON the track.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

At one race, my team suffered both the most spectacular crash and the most serious injury of the weekend.   But they were not related.

The crash was a roll-over after going off-pavement.   The car was destroyed, but the driver didn't even get a scratch.

The injury was a broken wrist, caused when the person tripped over a safety cone in the dark.

I worry more about the drive to and from the track.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

17

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

It has been stated that more people at Lemons races get injured by hitting their head leaving their trailer or camper on the track by a wide margin.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Most here are missing the actual question that was asked. The OP is referring to what they read in this thread
https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=35470

They are insinuating that none of us know how to really build cars, we do it unsafely, and that none can use a manual. And that makes us unsafe to be on track with. They are not asking if the outlined safety rules are sufficient.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

TheEngineer wrote:

Most here are missing the actual question that was asked. The OP is referring to what they read in this thread
https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=35470

They are insinuating that n[O}ne of us [doesn't] know how to really build cars, we [he] do[es] it unsafely, and that none can use a manual. And that makes us [him] unsafe to be on track with. They are not asking if the outlined safety rules are sufficient.


I fit that insinuated description. And I'm ok with it.

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

TheEngineer wrote:

...and that none can use a manual.

I admit I found it way easier to blow up the engine in the ToyoHog than to find neutral in its transmission.

Oh, wait, you mean one of those big, thick books. I couldn't figure out the Harley timing instructions in that, either.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Stop the dog pile guys.  Better than 50% chance this was knee-jerk reaction that should not have made it into text by the OP on something he his passionate about..."doing it right, the German (translated by the British) way".  There is no harm in that except a lack of a personal edit function.

Most of us either started with off-the-cuff engineering repairs or learned them over time.  Our best garage mechanic and fabricator ALWAYS references the shop manual for 20-60 minutes before moving on anything and 99% of the time, in the garage, he is done with his task while we are all thrashing around still on ours.  It has its place.

Questioning the safety of our racing series because not all of us do that every time all the time is more excessive textual diarrhea than indented to offensive...most likely.

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

st_rage wrote:

The actual racing is very safe.  The things that can hurt you when they fail are checked for safety (cage, belts, fuel).  There have been two deaths that I'm aware of on track in the last 10 years.  Both were heart attacks.

The cars are safe, the Bacon will eventually get you.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Guildenstern wrote:
st_rage wrote:

The actual racing is very safe.  The things that can hurt you when they fail are checked for safety (cage, belts, fuel).  There have been two deaths that I'm aware of on track in the last 10 years.  Both were heart attacks.

The cars are safe, the Bacon will eventually get you.

Or the beer.  Or the bathroom conditions at Gingerman after both on Sunday.

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

1215 wrote:

I just briefly browsed through the tech session and holy shit I'm scared. I come from a racing world where people do things properly and safely. They don't shoot first and ask questions later..

Read up on the Saga of the K Car.  Especially the part about the drive across the Great Basin to Sears Point!

Just stay away from that crowd and you'll be fine...

Re: Is Lemons dangerous?

Lemons is about the most fun you can have being reasonably safe.

Almost everything else I do in life is riskier than this.

Go to a race and you'll see.