Topic: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

What frequencies are legal to operate on for the races without a license? We are looking at the baofeng radios, but we don't want to run into problems, also does anyone know what frequencies to avoid at cmp for emergency, police etc....

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

You will want to stick to FRS frequencies without a license, although strictly speaking the Baofeng's aren't legal to use on those frequencies due to lack of FCC certification and removable antennas, but that hasn't stopped many people from using them.  More information about FRS can be found here:  https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-div … ervice-frs

As for which frequencies to avoid at CMP, if you're sticking to FRS, you won't be interfering with any local services, but you can look them up here:  http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?ctid=2340

Captain, For Parts Only (Team FPO)
#111 VW Golf - Currently Orange with tiger stripes (Calvin and Hobbes theme)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

First advice on the BaoFeng's. Good radios and a great value but require knowledge to avoid johhny law coming down on you. So Google, Google, Google. Google CHIRP especially. Search search search on this forum too.

On frequencies, we use the GMRS bands. Technically, you need an $85 license to use GMRS. Functionally, the FCC doesn't care. Google FMS vs. GMRS to learn more.

13X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '17 Arse-Sweat, Sears Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Arse-Sweat, Button Turrible, Arse-Freeze - 2015 Vodden, Arse Freeze. '96 Ford Taurus SHO Skunk - '17 Vodden (Hope for the Future award - not me, the rookies), '15 Pointless, Button Turrible. A&D w/Panting Polar Bears - Ugly Brown Camero - '17 Button Turrible.

4 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-08-11 09:59 PM)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Stick to these:
CH 15  462.5500 -GMRS 1
CH 1    462.5625 -GMRS 9/FRS
CH 16  462.5750 -GMRS 2
CH 2    462.5875 -GMRS 10/FRS
CH 17  462.6000 -GMRS 3
CH 3    462.6125 -GMRS 11/FRS
CH 18  462.6250 -GMRS 4
CH 4    462.6375 -GMRS 12/FRS
CH 19  462.6500 -GMRS 5
CH 5    462.6625 -GMRS 13/FRS
CH 20  462.6750 -GMRS 6
CH 6    462.6875 -GMRS 14/FRS
CH 21  462.7000 -GMRS 7
CH 7    462.7125 -GMRS 15/FRS
CH 22  462.7250 -GMRS 8
-------------
CH 8    467.5625 -FRS
CH 9    467.5875 -FRS
CH 10  467.6125 -FRS
CH 11  467.6375 -FRS
CH 12  467.6625 -FRS
CH 13  467.6875 -FRS
CH 14  467.7125 -FRS

For  the GMRS/FRS channels you should stay below 5W

For the GMRS only ones you can go to 50W technically.

OBEY THE SPACING! it's there for a reason. and the gap between 462.7250 and 467.5625 is also there for a reason. Just don't.

5kHz deviation, Narrow-band (NFM) if possible.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Nice Reply.

I believe FRS is limited to 5 watts and is the reason behind the fixed antenna on GMRS/FRS radios.

Guildenstern wrote:

Stick to these:
CH 15  462.5500 -GMRS 1
CH 1    462.5625 -GMRS 9/FRS
CH 16  462.5750 -GMRS 2
CH 2    462.5875 -GMRS 10/FRS
CH 17  462.6000 -GMRS 3
CH 3    462.6125 -GMRS 11/FRS
CH 18  462.6250 -GMRS 4
CH 4    462.6375 -GMRS 12/FRS
CH 19  462.6500 -GMRS 5
CH 5    462.6625 -GMRS 13/FRS
CH 20  462.6750 -GMRS 6
CH 6    462.6875 -GMRS 14/FRS
CH 21  462.7000 -GMRS 7
CH 7    462.7125 -GMRS 15/FRS
CH 22  462.7250 -GMRS 8
-------------
CH 8    467.5625 -FRS
CH 9    467.5875 -FRS
CH 10  467.6125 -FRS
CH 11  467.6375 -FRS
CH 12  467.6625 -FRS
CH 13  467.6875 -FRS
CH 14  467.7125 -FRS

For  the GMRS/FRS channels you should stay below 5W

For the GMRS only ones you can go to 50W technically.

OBEY THE SPACING! it's there for a reason. and the gap between 462.7250 and 467.5625 is also there for a reason. Just don't.

5kHz deviation, Narrow-band (NFM) if possible.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

6 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-10-12 01:58 PM)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

§95.1767   GMRS transmitting power limits.
This section contains transmitting power limits for GMRS stations. The maximum transmitting power depends on which channels are being used and the type of station.

(a) 462/467 MHz main channels. The limits in this paragraph apply to stations transmitting on any of the 462 MHz main channels or any of the 467 MHz main channels. Each GMRS transmitter type must be capable of operating within the allowable power range. GMRS licensees are responsible for ensuring that their GMRS stations operate in compliance with these limits.

(1) The transmitter output power of mobile, repeater and base stations must not exceed 50 Watts.

(2) The transmitter output power of fixed stations must not exceed 15 Watts.

(b) 462 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of mobile, hand-held portable and base stations transmitting on the 462 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 5 Watts.

(c) 467 MHz interstitial channels. The effective radiated power (ERP) of hand-held portable units transmitting on the 467 MHz interstitial channels must not exceed 0.5 Watt. Each GMRS transmitter type capable of transmitting on these channels must be designed such that the ERP does not exceed 0.5 Watt.

So an installed in car can be 50W on GMRS frequencies and so can a pit Base station.

Your hand radios can't be, that's limited to 5w. But if the car and pit are pushing 50W you'll hear and probably be heard fine.

But if you are pushing 50W might be appropriate to get a GMRS license.

Edit: also please don't push 50W with a garbage unrated chinese box. You'll probably be leaking all over the damn place because it's probably an overloaded 5W.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Guildenstern wrote:

Edit: also please don't push 50W with a garbage unrated chinese box. You'll probably be leaking all over the damn place because it's probably an overloaded 5W.

I went to a ham radio convention a few weeks ago.   They were offering free inspections of hand-held radios for spurious emissions, using a spectrum analyzer and dummy load.   All of the Japanese (Icom, Kenwood, Yaesu) radios passed with flying colors.   NONE of the Baofeng (Chinese) radios came even close to passing.   One in particular was putting almost as much power into the harmonics as into the carrier!   The tests were all done per FCC Part 97.307(e) specifications.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

8 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-10-12 04:01 PM)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Yeup. They suck SOOOOOOO bad.

There was someone at Gingerman last spring shitting ALL over the spectrum. Their harmonics were enough to block other channels.

Edit: oh and ofcourse they were one of those "we think we're nascar" teams that talks CONSTANTLY "You're clear low" "cars packing up on the other side of the track" "remember the tall skinny pedal makes you go." "Lemme just drive the car remotely from here for you"

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

And it is not just the poor transmitters in those units.   The receivers are equally crappy.
Their adjacent-channel rejection, IMD resistance, overload handling, audio distortion,
ignition noise rejection, and just about every other measure of performance sucks.
The only area they excel in is price, but what good is that if you can't communicate
clearly when the chips are down?

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

What about MURS frequencies?

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Guildenstern wrote:

they were one of those "we think we're nascar" teams that talks CONSTANTLY "You're clear low" "cars packing up on the other side of the track" "remember the tall skinny pedal makes you go." "Lemme just drive the car remotely from here for you"

IMO that is the biggest problem.  I don't think many people care what frequency you are on unless you are ALWAYS transmitting.  I'll wager my team uses less 5 minutes of air time TOTAL in an entire weekend.  The usual call is to let the driver know when it's time for the pit stop.  Unless we have a problem, we just don't yammer on the radio.  I personally find it very distracting and my team knows I don't want to hear any chit-chat, only something important.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
#411
'93 Acura Integra

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

The problem is multiplied by the fact that most teams don't understand what privacy codes do. They think it gives them their own channel, when all it really does is filter out anyone not using that code. So if you're on the same channel with no code you get to hear the 6 other teams that have codes setup. And they're constantly complaining that messages didn't go through because they don't realize that they are stepping on each other simultaneously.

Finding a quiet pocket is impossible.

16 Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

I believe the privacy codes work to filter out any incoming transmissions that don't have the matching privacy code (https://www.walkietalkiecentral.com/wal … acy-codes/). So they're more like "ignore the other teams codes." Which to me is more valuable. I don't want to know what other teams are saying. If other teams want to listen to our yakking, fine.

I agree 107% about people not understanding that each channel is a party line where only one person gets to talk at a time. And on teams apparently discussing quantum mechanics hogging the channel.

13X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '17 Arse-Sweat, Sears Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Arse-Sweat, Button Turrible, Arse-Freeze - 2015 Vodden, Arse Freeze. '96 Ford Taurus SHO Skunk - '17 Vodden (Hope for the Future award - not me, the rookies), '15 Pointless, Button Turrible. A&D w/Panting Polar Bears - Ugly Brown Camero - '17 Button Turrible.

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Yea, but it compounds when they are all over the ENTIRE SPECTRUM!!!!! one team, all the radios.

Typically the radio for us is:
"Hey the car broke"
"Hey is the car broke yet?"
"I'm coming in should I go to the pump or the paddock?"
"Time to come in next lap"

and the occasional (very rare)
"The car right in front of you is actually on the same lap as you and in our class"

MURS 2W 5 channels. FM
1      151.820 MHz
2    151.880 MHz
3    151.940 MHz
4    154.570 MHz
5    154.600 MHz

1-3 2.5KHz deviation
4 and 5 2.5Khz or 5Khz deviation.

It's usually the wireless PA so there's one freq gone. Or a very angry Jay.
Also it's the band of like a bajillion little remote wireless things. Small crowded bandwith. Part of why GMRS has gained such a foothold.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

15 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-10-13 12:58 PM)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

billybobster wrote:

I believe the privacy codes work to filter out any incoming transmissions that don't have the matching privacy code (https://www.walkietalkiecentral.com/wal … acy-codes/). So they're more like "ignore the other teams codes." Which to me is more valuable. I don't want to know what other teams are saying. If other teams want to listen to our yakking, fine.

I agree 107% about people not understanding that each channel is a party line where only one person gets to talk at a time. And on teams apparently discussing quantum mechanics hogging the channel.

Yea I know most good radios will still at least have a Rx light for when someone not on your code is transmitting, but that's still a major PITA especially for the driver who doesn't have time to look at his radio.

It only increases interference not mitigates it.

If ones DOMINATION strategy is so Super Serial that they need to keep it secret, go buy a digital encoding radio on a big boy band.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

Have all your drivers get a ham license.   A Technician class license test is very simple (and no Morse code!), and that lets you use all the popular VHF and UHF frequencies.   Just don't get caught using ham frequencies without a license.   Hams will happily turn in offenders, and the FCC fines are huge.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

17 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-10-13 07:12 PM)

Re: radio frequency and other brain swelling questions

One of our drivers is. And yea, he was pretty tweaked about the airwaves at Gingerman Spring. They take it serious! But he prefers ironic punishment to calling the FCC. And that's between him and his regulating agency. Although he really more grumbles that the FCC lets people buy the non-conforming garbage than gets pissed at the sucker who bought junk.

I have a Restricted Radio Telephone Operator from being a Pilot, and third guy just isn't interested really. And it's more a deal with A&D with a 2m radio in the car as opposed to an inoffensive GMRS rig at legal power that you just throw money at the FCC to be allowed to use. No test at all.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)