Topic: Brake Lines

Are braided SS lines a luxury or necessity? 

While the SS kits aren't ridiculously expensive ($125 for all 4 wheels) vs premium rubber ($12 per wheel), it is still an added cost that I'm not sure is necessary.  From what I am finding I can only get them in a complete set not individual or front/back.  We are swapping out the rear end of our Luv, so we would need to get two sets of lines, one for the donor rear end vehicle and one for the stock front end. Now we are talking about a much more significant price difference $250 vs $60. 

How much liability am I taking by not using braided lines.  Is this a common failure? Should we be putting the money instead into better rotors and calipers/pads?

Re: Brake Lines

As long as you put new ones on, you should be fine.

SS vs. rubber is more one of feel than longevity. The SS lines degrade in ways you can't see on approximately the same time frame... but they have (generally) better feel than rubber (more noticeable on higher-brake-power to weight vehicles, like motorcycles etc.).

That guy

Re: Brake Lines

Get the stainless. You'd be saving like $75 and the difference in feel is night & day.

Your brake money is should be put into decent rotors, quality working calipers, and the best pads you can afford.

13x Lemons Loser
#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (sold to new owners)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Coming soon to a West Coast event near you!)

Re: Brake Lines

Another "depends on the car" thing.  Most European cars post about 1983 have a brake hose (line it the metal part) construction similar to what you get with good stainless they just use a rubber outer coating than the weave is from something other than SS but just as effective.

Bad SS lines are significant detriment as they will eat the inner line due to abrasion.

Re: Brake Lines

Stock does fine even on A class cars...

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Brake Lines

To weigh in, stock hoses have been fine in a veteran Lemon which is super heavy and is driven hard enough to make smoke come out of Porterfield pads... Granted, it is a German car with ATE braking parts stock.

OMG Racing '94 Benz S500 #140: https://www.facebook.com/pages/OMG-Raci … 2774944199
Judges Choice and Regional Award winner! Chuckwalla '12, Buttonwillow '13, BFE GP '15, Miller '14 & '15, Sonoma '13,'14,'15. Inde '16,17.Finisher of the inaugural Lemons Rally, in the black Jag.... and IOE in the Super Snipe back in '12...look for the #820 Audi back on a track near you in 2017!!

Re: Brake Lines

I dunno, I have seen rubber hoses blow out in July races, but never seen SS lines blow.   They are a must for any of my cars,  just my opinion!

Team Sucker Punch Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
1984 Corvette WIP not raced yet.

Re: Brake Lines

Tiptoe the rat wrote:

I dunno, I have seen rubber hoses blow out in July races, but never seen SS lines blow.   They are a must for any of my cars,  just my opinion!

While far from seeing everything out there, In 8 yrs of this type of racing, the only blown hoses I have seen were SS, either they were cheap or misrouted, something easy to do if the length or design is incorrect.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR Lemons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: Brake Lines

The front end of the MetroGnome was rearranged from a trip into the barriers from a broken stainless line.  And the OP is talking about a LUV truck.  New rubber lines are going to be just fine in that application.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Brake Lines

Team Infinniti wrote:
Tiptoe the rat wrote:

I dunno, I have seen rubber hoses blow out in July races, but never seen SS lines blow.   They are a must for any of my cars,  just my opinion!

While far from seeing everything out there, In 8 yrs of this type of racing, the only blown hoses I have seen were SS, either they were cheap or misrouted, something easy to do if the length or design is incorrect.

Ive always used russel lines with no issues...HOWEVER the cars have been things like Mustangs, Camaro, Corvette, and so forth.  So pretty much just bolt up and go, no real risk of a misroute. 

I DO like the feel of a SS line much better, again this is just my opinion and experience.

Team Sucker Punch Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
1984 Corvette WIP not raced yet.

Re: Brake Lines

Buy stock lines from Rockauto.com and put zip ties on them every 1/2 inch to firm them up.
They'll be good enough.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
TRUMPACO XR4Ti
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Brake Lines

DelinquentRacer wrote:

Buy stock lines from Rockauto.com and put zip ties on them every 1/2 inch to firm them up.
They'll be good enough.

Sounds like this is what the factory should have done! What could go wrong?

13x Lemons Loser
#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (sold to new owners)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Coming soon to a West Coast event near you!)

Re: Brake Lines

I think the issue with failing stainless line is not that the lines are more likely to rupture; on the contrary.

However, you can't see any small cracks or tears developing in the rubber underneath. As a result, catastrophic failure may occur whereas if you had rubber lines, you may have caught the small issue before it becomes a big issue.

Using high quality stainless lines, properly routed, is by far the best solution and is not tremendously expensive. Sure rubber lines may work just fine.... But it's $100 difference to get good stainless.... Why not?

The key is keeping them clean, and not expecting to last them forever. Refresh them them pro-actively, because you can't seem them beginning to fail. I wouldn't use a set of stainless lines for more than two seasons.

13x Lemons Loser
#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (sold to new owners)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Coming soon to a West Coast event near you!)

Re: Brake Lines

Perhaps I'm missing something here.  We're talking about whether it's essential to use stainless brake lines on a LUV truck.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Brake Lines

Fishah wrote:
DelinquentRacer wrote:

Buy stock lines from Rockauto.com and put zip ties on them every 1/2 inch to firm them up.
They'll be good enough.

Sounds like this is what the factory should have done!

Uh huh. I can see the sarcasm in the reply.
If only the factory would install stainless lines on every car,
we wouldn't use zip ties to stiffen the rubber lines.

Clearly, you've never had to race as hard as possible on pennies for a budget.
Some of us have to get by the best we can on the fewest $$ possible.

Fishah wrote:

What could go wrong?

Not much, really, since you are using DOT Approved, factory-style, direct replacement parts.
If those parts have failures because I tighten a lowly zip-tie around it,
then they were going to fail without the zip-tie support.

cheseroo wrote:

We're talking about whether it's essential to use stainless brake lines on a LUV truck.

Very true, sir. Can you even buy SS lines for a LUV?

http://www.rockauto.com/info/27/BH380420_FRO__ra_p.jpg

BTW, the little plastic rings on this hose sure look and awful lot like something that might stiffen the hose, as well as, protect it from chafing, or keep it from kinking.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
TRUMPACO XR4Ti
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Brake Lines

You can have any line made. I had one done for my T-bird when it still had the 7.5 rear end.

Not crazy expensive either.

http://brake-hose.com/

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Brake Lines

New rubber hoses will work fine.  About the only way a new one will fail is if it's rubbing on something.  But if you have your heart set on stainless-clad teflon in onesies and twosies, find a BrakeQuip franchisee and they can fabricate anything you want.

Maximum Leader, Ruler for Life,
Dirty Rotten Cheating Bastards Racing

Re: Brake Lines

Agreed. Regular rubber is perfectly safe. Stainless Braid Line does feel a bit better depending on how crappy the original cars hoses were specced. And of course Stainless braided line = racecar!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Brake Lines

Guildenstern wrote:

Agreed. Regular rubber is perfectly safe. Stainless Braid Line does feel a bit better depending on how crappy the original cars hoses were specced. And of course Stainless braided line = racecar!

/agree

1992 Saturn SL2 - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner

Re: Brake Lines

We've replaced the stock rubber brake lines in our car exactly once in almost 5 years and 15 races, and that was during a "throw new parts at it until it stops not working" phase. The first ones were almost certainly still fine after 3.5 years and 10 races. It's a class C then B car, but we've always beat on the brakes, because for a long time they were the only thing we had that was good.

Command Pilot/Flight Director, Escape Velocity Racing
Index of Effluency, Heroic Fix, Class C Trophy, now hopelessly gunning for Class B.
Currently 1-2 vs. Team Fairlylame in the Class of 1964 Championships

Re: Brake Lines

I've had more stainless fail than rubber. I just use rubber any more.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Brake Lines

rmcdaniels wrote:

I've had more stainless fail than rubber. I just use rubber any more.

Again, I think it is more about quality of part and install that material.  For instance, a lot of modern lies use x-linked teflon coated fiber under the rubber outer sheath these days since OEM's have been spec'ing it for years so the raw line is just as cheap as the old liner, nylon cord, rubber line.  I DARE anyone to tell me they can feel the difference between the EXACT SAME LINE (the modern telfon...) with SS outer sheath if it is less than 10 years old.

Re: Brake Lines

I'm now formulating a way to test that that doesn't fudge up results due to re-bleeding etc...

Two near Identical Miatas?
Same tires same rotors same calipers same pads same fluid. One fresh set of OEM one SS set. Both with the master cylinder brace to minimize diffrent flex.

Would probably need fresh Master Cylinders and the cars to be weighted the same, same rims too.

I have a 96 manual, anyone else as stupid as me near Ohio?

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)