Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

BoB wrote:

add external trans cooler and you'll be fine-ish.

also add an external oil cooler, hell cool as many fluids as you can.

Upgrades to the Previute:

1. Engine oil cooler, prefer RX7 (ask your RX7 friends, they have already upgraded to Mishimoto)

2. Additional trans coolers (radiator already had one)

3. New brakes and rotors

4. Head gasket (had to change since it failed, reducing cost of vehicle purchase)

5. Run 85W-140 in diffs

6. Run 15W40 or 20W50 in engine (depends on oil consumption)

7. Front brake ducting (dryer hose)

8. Hi-temp racing brake fluid

9. New trans fluid and filter

10. Required safety items

That's it.

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Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

How slow is "slow"? Being new to Lemons, you're going to be slow no matter what you're driving. Just ask Robert and Roger about my first time driving many years ago -- CMP short course with ~120 cars... I was dog-ass-slow, driving like I'm on the interstate. I don't think I ever took the engine over 4000 rpm. "Apparently that's as fast as he wants to go. He's not breaking the car, or getting any flags, so leave him out there."

Don't fret over the budget. Don't go insane with obvious "race" components -- they won't help anyway. Make the car safe, stable, and reliable. As you get more and more experience, you may find that speed isn't all that necessary. "to win the race, one must first finish the race" Just staying on track, turning laps, it's surprising how high in the standing you can end up. Winning, in any class, requires a strategic amount of luck. We lucked up at Sebring... nobody was there. We lucked up big time at Barber... the 5 cars beating us all broke and Craig (Terminally Confused Del Sol) was doing pit stops at the pumps which kept him half a dozen laps behind us. (and he really didn't want to win and end up in class A forever. which is why we no longer race the civic.)

Aside from the obvious things to get it through tech -- cage, seat, harness, windshield, hood pins, fire extinguisher, etc. -- the first / only "performance" modification I would highly recommend is upgrading the brakes: suitable "race" pads, and high temp brake fluid (ATE and Pentosin  are great and reasonably priced. And Pentosin is likely what VW put in it in the first place.) Not to start a brake pad debate, I've used EBC yellow stuff on my bug ('01 1.8T) fronts, and Pep Boys prostop ceramics on the rear as I don't turn of ABS or ASR and it can't deal with the high friction rear pads. Without a proportioning valve, the fronts do all the work anyway. And EBC slotted rotors, front and rear.

Duff Beer Civic (#128) -- 2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7), 2016 Barber - Class B
1981 Jet Electrica 007 [Plymouth Horizon TC3] (#128) -- Mk.1 - Index of Effluency Eco (IOEe) @ 2016 Lemons South Fall, Mk.2 - Judges' Choice @ 2017 'Shine Country Classic, Mk.3 - Index of Effluency @ 2017 Southern Discomfort

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

jfbeam wrote:

(T)he first / only "performance" modification I would highly recommend is upgrading the brakes: suitable "race" pads, and high temp brake fluid... And EBC slotted rotors, front and rear.

+1 on race pads and hi-temp fluid.
Meh! for slotted rotors. Brembo or Centric plain rotors are good enough. NO DRILLED ROTORS!!!
Please check your wheel bearings. You add A LOT of load to them on track. It sucks to have to change them at the track, and is worse when a wheel falls off.
For your auto trans, unless you have excess engine cooling capacity, disconnect your radiator trans cooler. You'll be diminishing its capacity enough if you do the traditional cooler mount on the front of the radiator.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
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'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

I have a lot of fun in slow cars. This past weekend we were the 89th fastest of 95 cars at Road Atlanta and finished 46th overall and third in class. If we'd done a bit better on pit stops and figured out how to get our car running right sooner (we didn't get it running right until Sunday afternoon), then we might have won Class C. Focus on staying on track and not collecting flags and you'll have fun and do well.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

30 (edited by RobL 2017-12-13 05:32 PM)

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

In one race, I was the fastest slowest fastest car's driver (I was the fastest driver in the slowest car of the fastest laptimes).  I made one real pass all weekend not counting broken cars.  I had a ball.  You just have to know what you are getting into and set your expectations accordingly. 

--Rob

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

31 (edited by chaase 2017-12-14 07:33 AM)

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

CPT_Trans_Continental wrote:

If you drive a fast car and don't win, you've failed. If you drive a slow car and survive, you've succeeded. Every year we get passed by hundreds of cars and every year we come home happy.

Getting any car to survive a race is a victory. Slow cars just means you have to do it better. GRover was the 3rd or 4th slowest car on the track at GP Du Lac Chargagogogogog  but with finished 29th overall out of 111 cars.  Our fastest lap time, was 18seconds slower than the overall winner but we kept the car on the track, turning laps and we proceeded to move up the standings.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

We've had just as much fun in a slow but (surprisingly) reliable car, as we have with our current contraption, which is crazy fast, but seems to break something new every few hours.

Maximum Effort Motorsports - Mid-engine 1979 Chevette - Class C Winner - GP Du Lac Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
New England Long Winter Build Award - 2015
IOE Winner, Loudon Annoying 2011, Judges Choice - Loudon Annoying 2012
Class C & Least Horrible Yank Tank winner - Boston Tow Party & Overhead Cam Bake 2011

Re: Is Lemons worth it in a slow car?

The Jetta's not slow! That sounds like a perfectly good ride that could be even more slow with a good Type 4 swap. smile

(tl;dr—yes, Lemons is fun in some very good slow cars if you're just out there to throw down laps and enjoy yourself.)