Re: Corvette build thread!

BoB wrote:

Isn't the  diagonal supposed to be corner to corner?  Just wondering if you will have trouble in tech for that, plus the steeper angle should give you a little more rearward visability

Good catch

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"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
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Re: Corvette build thread!

We purchased the roll cage as a  kit, and....we have been modding it ever since.  Its...well...I almost wish we had started from scratch but we are used to putting cages in stock cars.   Lots more room inside an Olds Cutlass then a Corvette.  So the kit is more or less a help but I"m sure when its done it will be a bit removed.  But in any event I appreciate the input.  We WILL have a good and safe cage when we are done.  I'm very proud of the fact that the cage in our Camaro held up just fine despite the horrific crash.  Bigger then needed tube, gussets, etc..   Its gonna be tough.

Might be a bit odd looking though thanks to how Corvette does the frame:


http://oldyorkshootists.com/84chassis.jpg


Again we plan to tie the door bars to the frame, I think we are going to stitch the main hoop to the frame as well...functional AND fast right??

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

78 (edited by fschlottau 2018-02-09 12:27 AM)

Re: Corvette build thread!

Thanks for sharing thoughts on how this would work. This is definitely a challenging car to get a cage into. My build was a lot more straightforward (bmw 318ti)  It sounds like youve done similar cage work before, but if not, it may be worth also pinging John Pagel with description of your situation. He was super helpful when i had questions, and when i saw him at the inspection he exclaimed that he was very happy to help as some of these things are case by case. The thing that would make me uneasy (were this my car) is that the door bars dont terminate on the main hoop, and that the harness bar is full length. But i also dont see how you could do it differently. Tricky... i guess the frame could be seen as a massive plynth box.

Edit: couple more things. My earlier question about using a shorter diagonal: i liked having a bit of a protective cutout that the top of the seat could slide into. https://goo.gl/images/9AdGn9 
I use a 4 nozzle lifeline system similar to your link. I wish i had known that in order to keep it certified it has to be sent in every 2 years and tested. Also, there is one system that you can refill yourself trackside (if your car survives a discharge), whereas the lifeline needs to be sent in. If its accidentally triggered youre done for the weekend.
John Pagel suggested 2 nozzles on engine, one on gas tank by filler, and one at knee level facing feet.

Good luck!

Friso

79

Re: Corvette build thread!

Tiptoe the rat wrote:

We purchased the roll cage as a  kit, and....we have been modding it ever since.  Its...well...I almost wish we had started from scratch but we are used to putting cages in stock cars.   Lots more room inside an Olds Cutlass then a Corvette.  So the kit is more or less a help but I"m sure when its done it will be a bit removed.  But in any event I appreciate the input.  We WILL have a good and safe cage when we are done.  I'm very proud of the fact that the cage in our Camaro held up just fine despite the horrific crash.  Bigger then needed tube, gussets, etc..   Its gonna be tough.

Might be a bit odd looking though thanks to how Corvette does the frame:


http://oldyorkshootists.com/84chassis.jpg


Again we plan to tie the door bars to the frame, I think we are going to stitch the main hoop to the frame as well...functional AND fast right??

More room inside although that is offset by the fact nothing ever was built as a performance upgrade for it or its other sibling vehicles the x-body and u-van.

Really just wanted to point out a potential issue and figure you could send it with your other plans to HQ to get their ok before you get to far into it if you have to modify anything

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
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Re: Corvette build thread!

I meant G-body Cutlass!!   Not the Ciera.   No hate though you guys have done great with your Oldsmobile. 

The roll cage rules at Lemons seem to be a moving target.   Each time I went to a race no matter what car I was using the inspectors always seemed to find something they didn't like.   Then next time it was something else, and some days they would ask me to change it BACK from the last change...and so forth and so on.  Now I understand some of that, we are dealing with questionable drivers and cars, so I get it. 

Does anyone have any pictures of the OTHER C4 Corvettes that have raced in Lemons??  tips and tricks are always appreciated.

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Re: Corvette build thread!

Gotta love Vorshlag - 

Starts part way down and goes for a few pages:   
http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8341 
http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthre … amp;page=2

Re: Corvette build thread!

fschlottau wrote:

Gotta love Vorshlag - 

Starts part way down and goes for a few pages:   
http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8341 
http://www.vorshlag.com/forums/showthre … amp;page=2


Hey thanks!   It looks like they did almost exactly what I was thinking we would do!  Makes me more confident its the right choice...I think these guys have more experience then us!!

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Tiptoe the rat wrote:

The roll cage rules at Lemons seem to be a moving target.   Each time I went to a race no matter what car I was using the inspectors always seemed to find something they didn't like.   Then next time it was something else, and some days they would ask me to change it BACK from the last change...and so forth and so on.  Now I understand some of that, we are dealing with questionable drivers and cars, so I get it.

I have heard a similar complaint for guys with formerly bolt in cages upgraded to meet the current rules.  That said, I have yet to see issues for folks with new cages that follow the letter of the "How not to fail Tech" guide.  So moving target...not in the Midwest that I have seen.

Re: Corvette build thread!

OnkelUdo wrote:
Tiptoe the rat wrote:

The roll cage rules at Lemons seem to be a moving target.   Each time I went to a race no matter what car I was using the inspectors always seemed to find something they didn't like.   Then next time it was something else, and some days they would ask me to change it BACK from the last change...and so forth and so on.  Now I understand some of that, we are dealing with questionable drivers and cars, so I get it.

I have heard a similar complaint for guys with formerly bolt in cages upgraded to meet the current rules.  That said, I have yet to see issues for folks with new cages that follow the letter of the "How not to fail Tech" guide.  So moving target...not in the Midwest that I have seen.

  Built 2 cages following the "How not to fail Tech" and never had any issues.

"We Got Screwed" NHMS 2017, 4th NHMS 2020,  4th NJMP 2021,
"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
#847 Batmobile  aka-"Beulah"  search Squidrope Racing on Facebook

Re: Corvette build thread!

Guess I must be unlucky!   

The same cage/car that passed tech in the spring with no issues (not my car)  needed to be fixed in the fall, and then again...

We did it, and as you can see we are still racing, so are the other teams I have run with last time I talked to them.

Plan is to more or less follow the Vorshlag Vette, looks like the right stuff to me.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

86 (edited by fschlottau 2018-02-12 07:37 AM)

Re: Corvette build thread!

I still dont understand why you dont just write up (w some pics) what you're planning to do in an email to The Evil One (aka John Pagel, aka likely the person who will sign off on the cage during tech). Seems like a helluva gamble, but to each their own.  I did my build according to the “how to not fail tech” + 3 emails to John about plynth boxes and fire suppression system, and as such didnt have to ‘assume’ that the hardest-to-fix-at-the-track thing was ok... assuming the vorshlag approach checks all the boxes is also fraught w heartache bc if there are differences allowed in the series they were building for... well...

Cheers
F

Ps (John is also the person who welded the cage into the c4 t was mentioned in the other cage question post you had)

Re: Corvette build thread!

OK I guess its time to call it!  I dropped a line to John and we will see what he says.

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Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Definitely post back what John said - curious how to best handle that, and this forum is Usually a great source of info.

Cheers!
Friso

Re: Corvette build thread!

Hello everyone I have some news.

Got in touch with John and he said that my cage ideas had "flaws in the pics you sent, not failures".  He said he would get back to me with some ideas/pictures on how we could do better...but real life is keeping him too busy at the moment.

Sadly it looks like we are NOT going to be able to make the April race like we had planned.  Our fire system has still not shipped, the cage is taking much longer then I hoped, and we keep finding more issues with the car that need to be fixed.

So the new goal is Oct Gingerman...I'll be in Pittsburg in July.

The upshot of this is that I now have more time to make sure everything is legal AND right.   After finding MORE loose and missing bolts I'm going to have to check the rest of the car before I feel safe putting a buddy at the wheel. 

Update videos will keep coming as we keep working it out.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Thanks for keeping us posted - I was in that position last year (doing our second car, first cage by your's truly) and it was amazing how much work had to happen. We ran in CO (BFE-GP)

I'd love to see how John suggests you build it out.

Cheers!
f

Re: Corvette build thread!

Tiptoe the rat wrote:

Guess I must be unlucky!

Nope, I've seen the same thing.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Posted a new video, nothing too interesting other then the Vette got its detachable steering wheel put in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0exq40MRTU

Today the postman delivered our race seat (Kirkey road race)  so I guess I'll be spending most of tomorrow bolting that in...loosely.  After the seat is in place we can get back to welding in more roll bar tubes.  Still no word from John, but EVERY vette I have seen caged is done the same way as what we were thinking.  Again I'm open to tips and ideas if anyone has them! 

More updates to come.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Not much progress today...while we were at the shop working on the Corvette SOMEONE set the lawn on fire outside the shop......


No tragedy we managed to get it put out without calling in the local firemen, BUT it did slow us down a bit.   

On the bright side we got to introduce a bunch of the locals to Lemons racing.  As always the FIRST question they asked when I told them I have done 3 of the 24 hour races was...."What do you do when you have to go pee?"

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Look forward to hear what John's feedback is.  Building a 1989 Corvette right now and the rear hoop to door bar interface is a challenge.

The Defeat Device Mid-Engine 1979 Chevette
Fastest / craziest Chevette driver in America!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Found this 1986 Corvette Chump Car build on the Corvette Forum.  Do the door bars have to tie into the rear hoop, or can you use spreader plates and tie door bars to frame?  Looks like a very safe solution.  Hope John and review and provide feedback.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c4 … rance.html

The Defeat Device Mid-Engine 1979 Chevette
Fastest / craziest Chevette driver in America!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Hey guys so....John has pretty much gone poof on me sadly. 

His last E mail he said our cage idea had "flaws but no failures"  so....I guess we are going to keep moving forward.   My ace welder is out of town this weekend so I will still have some time before we add more tubes/ gussets. 

Fact of the matter is tying the door bars to the frame like we had planned seems to be the ONLY way to cage these cars.  SCCA, NASA, and now Chumpcar Corvettes have all been done this way.  Personally I don't see how that would be any less safe, plus if we move the main hoop any more forward it will end up going OVER or in front of our drivers... were do we put the harness bar? 

In any event we have had more setbacks sadly...my fire system, race seat, AND windshield are ALL back ordered.  No one seems to have any idea when we will get anything.  So tomorrow its just gonna be lots of little things here and there.

I have never had more trouble getting a road race car on track before and Ive raced a Corvair in the past!!!

Every time I look at the car I find new and amazing wiring issues, that are NOT from GM...and missing bolts... and damage. 

I'm not throwing in the towel....far from it, but I will confess that I'm starting to wish the team had picked the OTHER car I was looking an 80s Monte Carlo SS.

Updates and info will be posted as I get them!  Thanks for reading.

Matt Rat.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Good luck - keep on cranking!

Re: Corvette build thread!

Hey guys, a new video is coming soon...ish....but for the moment this is what I have.

We finally got our fire system in the mail, so I spent part of the day getting the bottle mounted.  Again the floor is mostly fiberglass so its not as simple as I'm used too. 

We cut and tacked more tubes into our roll cage, we manged to raise the  roof bars up to get a few more inches of clearance/safety.   Still no word from John, but...I don't think I'm going to get any at this point.  So unless someone has a better idea we are just going to build a safe cage like we always do. 

My lexan is supposed to be in tomorrow (again)...

and I found another $0.20  in the car!!

Anyone need side glass for a C4 Corvette??  I"m selling it cheap.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

99 (edited by shamwow 2018-03-19 12:50 PM)

Re: Corvette build thread!

This is a great build and I cant wait to see this thing on track in the midwest.

I suspect you are correct regarding the door bars, since this is how every other major racing organization handles it. More than likely he just has some specific suggestions for how you gusset or tie it all together. However, I might suggest you drop John another email, and if he doesnt respond, I would email nick pon and jay directly with your questions. He is their chief tech steward and the series owes it to the competitors to have an available tech steward.  I dont think waiting months for feedback is realistic, and more than likely he has just forgotten about your request.

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Re: Corvette build thread!

shamwow wrote:

This is a great build and I cant wait to see this thing on track in the midwest.

I suspect you are correct regarding the door bars, since this is how every other major racing organization handles it. More than likely he just has some specific suggestions for how you gusset or tie it all together. However, I might suggest you drop John another email, and if he doesnt respond, I would email nick pon and jay directly with your questions. He is their chief tech steward and the series owes it to the competitors to have an available tech steward.  I dont think waiting months for feedback is realistic, and more than likely he has just forgotten about your request.

Try Jeff Glenn (Jeff@24hoursoflemons.com). He's officially on the Contact page for Tech stuff.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com