• Registered: 2018-03-13
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Topic: Parts cars

When I first started daydreaming about Lemons my first thought was to use parts cars to maximize your budget. Say you find a glorified shell for a song but it’s missing some key components or you just want to boost power or handling. The local junkyard has a similar vehicle with all the parts you need but a messed up frame. You go through the trouble of parting out the car and like magic, you have won yourself a free engine with some nice suspension parts to boot!

What is typically the ruling on this? I feel like as long as there is a good paper trail this would be legal because the labor required to partout a car and still break even or better is immense. What have been some past rulings on this strategy?

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  • Registered: 2010-03-08
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Re: Parts cars

Legal.  We used to get free engines by parting down snowmobiles.  It was actually profitable, not that that helped with the budget.

  • From: South Jersey
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Re: Parts cars

Yes it's legal, but there is still a budget cap of $500 and a minimum of 0.  So you can't buy a car for $200, sell $300 of of it and get $600 to spend still.

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Re: Parts cars

we bought ours for around $700 and sold over 1k in parts... nice if we could go below zero....

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

5 Reply by Nickanator (edited by Nickanator 2018-03-20 08:18 AM)

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Re: Parts cars

Mr.Yuck wrote:

we bought ours for around $700 and sold over 1k in parts... nice if we could go below zero....

Well now here is my follow up question. Could you fudge the numbers so you sold $400 of parts, bought some equipment, then sold some more stuff, then bought some more, then sold the rest? You never went negative, you just sold $1000 worth of parts over time.

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Re: Parts cars

Nickanator wrote:

Well now here is my follow up question. Could you fudge the numbers so you sold $400 of parts, bought some equipment, then sold some more stuff, then bought some more, then sold the rest? You never went negative, you just sold $1000 worth of parts over time.

That would be lying, and yes you can absolutely lie. I lied about our first car because it was free. A guy that I know gave it to me (minus interior and powertrain) so it would be out of his yard. So I made up all of the numbers and fabricated 100% of the documentation to produce something that looked reasonable and added up to just under $500. Fake CL ads and fake receipts were printed, and I signed some of them left-handed with fake names so it looked more convincing. The judges have no way of telling a real receipt from a fake receipt other than common knowledge (i.e. a running/driving Integra does not sell for $150), so it all boils down to: Is what you're presenting reasonable? In our case it was a smashed-up single-cam Civic with 286K miles, so the numbers adding up to about $500 were reasonable and the completely fake documentation was never scrutinized too thoroughly. I could have printed "CAR COST $500" on a napkin in crayon and saved myself some time and probably emerged with the same result.

So think about what you are building and what it's really worth and bring something reasonably congruent with the idea of a $500 car to the race. Then it won't matter what your documentation says. You can pay $10,000 for a 1998 Daewoo Leganza and nobody will care at all, but if you pay $150 for a 325i, then you are a filthy cheating scumbag, even if you really paid $150 for it.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

7 Reply by chaase (edited by chaase 2018-03-20 10:35 AM)

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Re: Parts cars

rmcdaniels wrote:

So think about what you are building and what it's really worth and bring something reasonably congruent with the idea of a $500 car to the race. Then it won't matter what your documentation says. You can pay $10,000 for a 1998 Daewoo Leganza and nobody will care at all, but if you pay $150 for a 325i, then you are a filthy cheating scumbag, even if you really paid $150 for it.

It all comes down to how good/bad the car is when it gets in front of the judges. When we showed up with our Saturn the first race, we got a bit of scrutiny but we were okay. We showed up with a 1970 BMW 2800 and all they asked us about was the motor. It was stock and Phil was very happy. We showed up with the 1969 Rover P6-3500 aka Super Grover and we were never asked anything about money.  The most words out of Jay were him thanking us for building a Rover to race. If you have a terrible car, they won't care. If you have a really nice car, they care. When it comes down to it, as long as you aren't trying to blow the budget with cheaty race stuff, you will still get to race and prove how bad you really are at this racing thing.

Do your best to follow the spirit of the rules. if you do that, the worst thing is you'll get penalty laps. You still get to race and have fun.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
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Re: Parts cars

Nickanator wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

we bought ours for around $700 and sold over 1k in parts... nice if we could go below zero....

Well now here is my follow up question. Could you fudge the numbers so you sold $400 of parts, bought some equipment, then sold some more stuff, then bought some more, then sold the rest? You never went negative, you just sold $1000 worth of parts over time.

we have receipts, ads, photos of transaction and all the paperwork. I guess one could cheat but we run a 305 powered trans am sooooooo....

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  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
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Re: Parts cars

Mr.Yuck wrote:
Nickanator wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

we bought ours for around $700 and sold over 1k in parts... nice if we could go below zero....

Well now here is my follow up question. Could you fudge the numbers so you sold $400 of parts, bought some equipment, then sold some more stuff, then bought some more, then sold the rest? You never went negative, you just sold $1000 worth of parts over time.

we have receipts, ads, photos of transaction and all the paperwork. I guess one could cheat but we run a 305 powered trans am sooooooo....

After your first race, you can get a declared value, or residual, from Judge Phil.  You may get away with selling more off if he says it's worth anything.

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  • From: Duxbury, MA
  • Registered: 2014-11-05
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Re: Parts cars

Don't overthink it. You arrive with a reasonable car that is safe and well put together, they will never even want to see your paperwork or receipts. You arrive with an obvious cheater with adjustable coilovers and a fresh racing engine, no amount of paperwork will save you from the 250 BS points. They particularly scrutinize cars that are known to have readily available racing components and modifications such as Miatas, BMWs, Mustangs, etc.

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Re: Parts cars

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
Nickanator wrote:

Well now here is my follow up question. Could you fudge the numbers so you sold $400 of parts, bought some equipment, then sold some more stuff, then bought some more, then sold the rest? You never went negative, you just sold $1000 worth of parts over time.

we have receipts, ads, photos of transaction and all the paperwork. I guess one could cheat but we run a 305 powered trans am sooooooo....

After your first race, you can get a declared value, or residual, from Judge Phil.  You may get away with selling more off if he says it's worth anything.

good to know I still have a few boxes of parts laying around. Shame this was a #'s matching rust free L69 car...lol

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  • Registered: 2018-03-13
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Re: Parts cars

So what I’m basically hearing is use common sense, follow the spirit of the competition, and have fun. Sound accurate?

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  • From: Seacoast NH
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Re: Parts cars

Nickanator wrote:

So what I’m basically hearing is use common sense, follow the spirit of the competition, and have fun. Sound accurate?

Bingo

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Re: Parts cars

Mysterymachine wrote:

... such as Miatas, BMWs, Mustangs, etc.

Yeah and VW Jettas apparently. Our car sucks pretty bad and we end up in class A LOL.

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Re: Parts cars

chaase wrote:
rmcdaniels wrote:

So think about what you are building and what it's really worth and bring something reasonably congruent with the idea of a $500 car to the race. Then it won't matter what your documentation says. You can pay $10,000 for a 1998 Daewoo Leganza and nobody will care at all, but if you pay $150 for a 325i, then you are a filthy cheating scumbag, even if you really paid $150 for it.

It all comes down to how good/bad the car is when it gets in front of the judges. When we showed up with our Saturn the first race, we got a bit of scrutiny but we were okay. We showed up with a 1970 BMW 2800 and all they asked us about was the motor. It was stock and Phil was very happy. We showed up with the 1969 Rover P6-3500 aka Super Grover and we were never asked anything about money.  The most words out of Jay were him thanking us for building a Rover to race. If you have a terrible car, they won't care. If you have a really nice car, they care. When it comes down to it, as long as you aren't trying to blow the budget with cheaty race stuff, you will still get to race and prove how bad you really are at this racing thing.

Do your best to follow the spirit of the rules. if you do that, the worst thing is you'll get penalty laps. You still get to race and have fun.

Just to add to this...we have never been questioned on the Dustbuster nor were we on the '47 Plymouth in original form.  I DEMANDED our penalty lap for the Plymouth because I thought is was hilarious.

Next time the Plymouth shows up is almost two years later, absolutely nothing is stock and it is super-cheaty.  Judge Steve wrote C 0 on the sheet while it was still rolling into the garage for BS.  We had to beg him to look at the lunacy we had installed because when we asked he said "I don't care what you did to this thing, Class C until it wins by an embarrassing amount."

So yeah...bring a terrible car and no one cares. Make that terrible car awesome and they don't care until you actually start winning stuff.

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Re: Parts cars

OnkelUdo wrote:

So yeah...bring a terrible car and no one cares. Make that terrible car awesome and they don't care until you actually start winning stuff.

The suffering of having to race and fix that terrible car is your penalty. Hence the leniency later on. 8-)

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
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Re: Parts cars

chaase wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

So yeah...bring a terrible car and no one cares. Make that terrible car awesome and they don't care until you actually start winning stuff.

The suffering of having to race and fix that terrible car is your penalty. Hence the leniency later on. 8-)

Our most terrible car was also our most reliable!  Now that we are trying to make it not terrible, we expect that to end.

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Re: Parts cars

Or we could say “if this is your first Lemons race you aren’t likely to win, so build a car in the spirit of the rules and don’t sweat the actual numbers”.   If it takes $600 to build a 1997 Chevy cavalier, then that’s what it took for you.  You might get penalty laps if it looks cheaty, but they won’t matter, you wouldn’t have won without the penalty laps.

Most fast class A cars have been built over 5+ years.  Using residuals and no cost ingenuity. 

Just my opinion.

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Re: Parts cars

OnkelUdo wrote:
chaase wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

So yeah...bring a terrible car and no one cares. Make that terrible car awesome and they don't care until you actually start winning stuff.

The suffering of having to race and fix that terrible car is your penalty. Hence the leniency later on. 8-)

Our most terrible car was also our most reliable!  Now that we are trying to make it not terrible, we expect that to end.

That was the problem we had with Elmo (Saturn). It was very reliable. After the Class B win, we were getting moved into A. We tried things to make the car faster, but it seemed to cause more issues than it solved.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner
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Re: Parts cars

I'm waiting for the first of the most recent generation Mitsubishi Mirage to show up at a Lemons race, bone stock.  You could probably do it now, even with a ~$5000 newish example, and end up in Class C.  Loophole!

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Re: Parts cars

mechimike wrote:

I'm waiting for the first of the most recent generation Mitsubishi Mirage to show up at a Lemons race, bone stock.  You could probably do it now, even with a ~$5000 newish example, and end up in Class C.  Loophole!

Our '96 is the "worst example of a Mitusbishi in the history of Lemons" according to Judge Phil.  I think we'd be Class C with 0 laps if we showed up with an LS swap!

https://youtu.be/JjvsNrsP5F0?t=46

Not the most recent generation, though....