• From: Columbia SC
  • Registered: 2010-09-12
  • Posts: 864

Topic: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

Is this an oxymoron? I'm looking for suggestions on keeping a SBC on the track for at least the majority of the weekend, also for the vulnerable turbo 350 tranny.

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B
  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

Keep the RPM's low (around 4,000), Keep the Oil Pan Full, and the Transmission fluid fresh, cooled, and increase the pan capacity.

A reverse manual valve body and a nice ratchet shifter would be handy too, to keep it from banging itself up and down gears. But that's $$$ not ¢¢¢.

The key is you HAVE to make it want to upshift at the de-rated redline even with your foot in it and keep everything cool.

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  • Registered: 2017-02-22
  • Posts: 221

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

I believe that Dave Morrow has experience here

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  • From: Rockville, MD
  • Registered: 2010-12-15
  • Posts: 1,154

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

From what I've seen, synthetic oil that's not too thin or thick (I like Rotella T6, 5w40) and an oil cooler are a good idea. Ours ran well all weekend without a cooler, but it was a stock 305 and we did use the good oil (and we did blow up a water pump).

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  • Registered: 2013-06-04
  • Posts: 79

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

On Big Homer we found that a restrictor plate instead of a thermostat helped keep the temps down at a Fall CMP race.  Regular thermostats have a tendency to stick closed.
Also look at making sure the fan shroud around the mechanical fan is in good shape, and that the water pump is working at full flow.
A manual transmission is the best way to keep a transmission going all weekend. Otherwise get a big oil cooler off a full size truck, or a Jag, and make sure it gets plenty of air. One for oil one for trans fluid.
Resist the urge to advance the timing any, keep the revs lower, drive on torque not top end.  This applies to most Lemons cars, but the bigger the engine is the more it helps.

  • Registered: 2009-07-19
  • Posts: 1,585

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

I'm assuming the same stuff holds true for an old Buick 231? Fall will be our first foray into GM-powered racing.

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  • From: Vermont
  • Registered: 2012-04-19
  • Posts: 301

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

The SBC can be made to be fairly reliable in Lemons.

They keys to success are:

1a. Cooling. Run a big radiator and a 160 degree thermostat. Use shrouded fans. A high flow water pump isn't a bad idea either.
1b. Oil cooling. Run a big oil cooler. We like RX-7 coolers.
2. Oil control. OE pans have little to no baffling and oil will slosh away from the pickup. Do this lap after lap and you'll toast your bearings. Use a properly baffled pan with extra capacity.

We regularly run our motors to 5,400 RPM. Yes, lower RPMs are better, but they can survive revs.

A word of caution: don't think that you'll be able to pick up a junkyard motor and make it last by applying the above. Every motor that we've tried to use without tearing down and refreshing has blown up in short fashion. There's a lot of old worn out junk out there that just won't survive no matter what you do.

Short story: give the motor a refresh (bearings, rings, gaskets), keep it cool, and control your oil.

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  • From: Elmhurst, IL
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
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Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

keep revs low, keep it cool

Add oil coolers, trans coolers, power steering coolers.  If you can cool it, cool it.

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  • Registered: 2017-02-08
  • Posts: 8

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

Is an acusump a worthwhile expenditure of the budget for the SBC?

We were already doing everything listed except the power steering cooler. But planned on the acusump along with the oil cooler, remote filter, and all those extra hoses to possibly fail.

  • Registered: 2009-08-28
  • Posts: 606

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

We raced a SBC and a Turbo 350 in our Camaro for over 30 races with no issues.  This is what we did.

1.  Keep it cool.  Like so many others have said we used a big radiator from a late model stock car and put a massive air scoop on the car.  We ran blanks and a 160 degree thermostat,  the car ran cooler with the 160 in it.  For the transmission we used an oil cooler out of a box truck, I also installed a temp gauge for the tranny, it was sweating pretty hard during the June races but it never overheated. 

2.  Don't over rev it.  Old tired valve springs don't like to rev anyways, keep it under 5 grand.

3.  We picked up deep sump pans for both the engine and the transmission at a local swap me,  less then $50 total, more oil is always a good thing.

We never needed an oil cooler or an acusump, but I certainly would not say they are bad ideas.

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11 Reply by steve (edited by steve 2018-05-15 08:59 AM)

  • From: Columbia SC
  • Registered: 2010-09-12
  • Posts: 864

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

There was an old trick the dirt track guys used to do to limit the oil and that was to put  restrictor plugs in the oil galley at the end of the block above the camshaft to help slow down the flow of oil to the top end thus keeping more in the bottom end but I dont know if this would be a good thing on an endurance motor. These are what I'm talking about https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS/555/23610/1 … gJEuvD_BwE

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B
  • From: Columbia SC
  • Registered: 2010-09-12
  • Posts: 864

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

Have any of you guys used an old condensor for a oil cooler or transmission cooler?

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B
  • From: Columbia SC
  • Registered: 2010-09-12
  • Posts: 864

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

Also how bad would an Ebay dual remote oil filter relocation kit throw the judges off?

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B
  • From: Vermont
  • Registered: 2012-04-19
  • Posts: 301

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

1. Oil restrictors are only for use with solid lifters, which I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to use in an endurance motor. Hydraulic lifters need the full supply of oil that the block was designed to give them.

2. For oil cooling you need decently sized passages so that you don't restrict flow. For that reason I would not run an old condenser as an oil cooler. You want -10 or larger sized lines for oil cooling. A condenser may work alright as a power steering or trans cooler.

3. Why go to the trouble of a dual remote filter relocation kit? Is the factory location inaccessible in your chassis? A good quart filter (e.g. Wix 51061) is all you need. Don't bother with the reduced height filters.

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15 Reply by steve (edited by steve 2018-05-15 10:57 AM)

  • From: Columbia SC
  • Registered: 2010-09-12
  • Posts: 864

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

piper.gras wrote:

1. Oil restrictors are only for use with solid lifters, which I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to use in an endurance motor. Hydraulic lifters need the full supply of oil that the block was designed to give them.

2. For oil cooling you need decently sized passages so that you don't restrict flow. For that reason I would not run an old condenser as an oil cooler. You want -10 or larger sized lines for oil cooling. A condenser may work alright as a power steering or trans cooler.

3. Why go to the trouble of a dual remote filter relocation kit? Is the factory location inaccessible in your chassis? A good quart filter (e.g. Wix 51061) is all you need. Don't bother with the reduced height filters.


I was thinking of the dual oil filters mostly for added oil capacity especially since the car I was thinking of building is a 1962 Chevy 2 and it requires a weird curved pan for a V8 so the steering will clear. I'm not sure if I could gain much capacity given how those pans are made. I figure i could add two large oil filters to one of these and make it hold about a quart more since it would have one filter originally. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Trans-Dapt-Per … Sw5WNa8kyK

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B
  • From: Gilbertsville, PA
  • Registered: 2009-12-22
  • Posts: 3,251

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

My 67 has a front sump pan.  Helps while under braking, but not accelerating...

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17 Reply by steve (edited by steve 2018-05-15 12:18 PM)

  • From: Columbia SC
  • Registered: 2010-09-12
  • Posts: 864

Re: Suggestions on making a SBC live in Lemons

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

My 67 has a front sump pan.  Helps while under braking, but not accelerating...


Yeah I don't think you could put a front sump pan on this beast without a lot of chopping up and I'd like to keep the car somewhat original looking. Although I haven't researched this car very much, it was a tow in to my shop with a blown straight 6 and the owner was a crack head that wouldn't pay me for towing it so now it's mine for a mere $125 Anyway I'm trying to go the cheaper way out this is one of the oil pans that they make for the chevy 2 for 6 quart https://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance … gKtv_D_BwE  Theyre a bit cheaper on ebay and include the gasket and oil pickup screen. And this thing should accelerate way better then it stops with the 4 wheel drum brakes LOL

2010, 26th @ CMP, 2011, 10th & 5th at CMP, 2012? (MIA), 2013 Spring CMP, 53rd, 2013 Fall CMP 44th, 2014 Barber 14th, 2014 CMP 46th, 2015 CMP 57th, 2015 CMP 80th, 2016 CMP 16th, 3rd in B class, Winner Judges choice, and First car under 2.0 liter Alex's lemon aide stand winner. 2017 WRL, Road Atlanta 43rd, 2017 NCM 9th O/A , 1st in B class, 2018 CMP 13th O/A 3rd in Class B