Topic: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

My alerts for LKQ send me an email about a new Northstar-powered Cadillac *every day*. Half of them have a "runs" or "runs and drives" sticker on them. They're legit $200 V8's that are common as dirt, yet most V8 folks insist on using 600lb boat anchors that boil the oil on lap 3, or LS's that require a ton of supporting mods and are a guaranteed trip to Class A with laps. There's some work required to adapt bellhousings and flywheels, but that's just manual labor. Computers are hardly a problem, since you can pick up a used Ms-I for less than a hundred bucks now.

What am I missing?...

K Car Stalker

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

No clue but
If you decide to do this,IN PERSON pick one that has a squeaky clean cooling system!

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Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

If Lemons track performance is the inverse of street reliability, this is a good idea.  What RWD manual transmissions mate up to it?

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

One of the V6 Camaro trans has a bolt pattern that is close.
Apparently the Fiero forums are the place for knowledge on keeping these motors going.
I know someone working a long term project car that is going to try this, so I don't know much more about it.

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

Northstars are/were notorious for becoming great oil and coolant mixers, or exhaust and coolant mixers, or any combination you can think of relating to heads, headgaskets, and head bolts.  One of my good friends works at a "non-PullAPart" junkyard.  They purchased a dozen Seville/Devilles one night at an upper end auction, each with ~100k miles.  TWO made it the 45 mile trip to the junkyard without overheating.  I owned (unfortunately) a Seville.  At 99,xxx miles, it started getting a little hot while at road speed.  No radiator issues, so I put a new water pump on it. Two weeks later, I could sit and watch the exhaust bubble out of the coolant tank every few seconds.  I called around and none of the shops would touch the heads if I wanted them rebuilt.  I traded it in the next day.  Absolutely nothing else wrong with the car.  The motor was designed for the 1st owner, not the 3rd/4th/Lemons Race Team!

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Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

firegremlin wrote:

yet most V8 folks insist on using 600lb boat anchors that boil the oil on lap 3,

I represent that remark.

Though in fairness, 5.5 quarts of Mobil1 15W-50 does a pretty admirable job of resisting the extreme heat of our car's 460. 

I seem to recall the HG being problematic on NS.  A co-worker of mine did a HG job on a caddy he had.  i think there was a kit for it with studs and helicoils and whatnot.  Wasn't a bad job, IIRC, just time consuming.  Shops seemed to want $1k to do it, so most of the cars got scrapped, since America  luxo-boats with >100k miles depreciate like used condoms. 

I think this was also the dex-cool era, so GM, in typical wise-ness, took an untested engine design with known weaknesses and mixed it with an experimental coolant that turned out to be a very good sludge-generator. 

if it were me and I were dead-set on doing a NorthStar, I'd find some ultra-clean cream-puff car to yank the engine from.  The Judges aren't going to give any B-S laps because the parts car cost $5000, when it's a Northstar donor.

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'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
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Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

https://york.craigslist.org/cto/d/2005- … 44190.html

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

mechimike wrote:

if it were me and I were dead-set on doing a NorthStar, I'd find some ultra-clean cream-puff car to yank the engine from.  The Judges aren't going to give any B-S laps because the parts car cost $5000, when it's a Northstar donor.

I would go the opposite route...buy a $500 blown headgasket car and do the full rebuild as long as it was not one with casting porosity issue.  Still no BS laps and you get fresh bearings, HG, studs and inspection of everything.

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

I'm planning on building a northstar powered car soon, Already have the race car and the caddy. I daily drove the Cadillac off an on over the course of a year till the tag expired, beating it senseless every chance I got. They do a great job of absolutely incinerating front tires.Temp never rose. 2004 and up Northstars had coarse head bolts that aren't as likely to pull out of the block allegedly, My donor is an 05. The problem isn't with the head gaskets, its the fact that the head bolts were a fine thread into an aluminum block, and the coolant would erode the threads letting the bolts pull out of the block. Northstar perfomance sells a head stud kit that allegedly cures that. The holy roller Deville that ran at MSR was equipped with that and had no issues.

V6 camaro trans will bolt up, minus one bolt. A simple bracket can be made to mate the last bolt. Apparently you can redrill a 2.8 V6 cavalier flywheel and it will work on the northstar. The fiero guys have all this figured out. Engine management can be handled with a LS1 computer with a flashed tune for a shelby series 1. They were the only factory manual trans northstar powered car built. It was a 4.4, but from what i read will run a 4.6. Northstars also had a crazy toothed wheel in the middle of the crank, which changed several times throughout production. None are interchangeable with each other. I was going to just put a 24x wheel on the crank pulley and be done with it.

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

real quick what does a northstar weigh? if I had to guess more then a small block gm or ford. camshafts and timing chains are heavy and there is 4.

Owner/Captain of The 27 Club E46. Phoenix, AZ
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Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

The northstar is pretty equivalent to the Ford 5.0 weight wise, but much bulkier with the large, wide, DOHC heads.  I've been keeping an eye on cadillacs in the junk yard recently with the 4.9 Cadillac Miata build and its always surprising to see the number of northstars in the yard.

I'd say the major reason swaps like the northstar don't happen even outside of Lemons is that there are always far more LS 5.3's and 6.0's in the same yard that will cost the same, make more power, and probably be more reliable.

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Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

What ever happened to this car?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/lemon … san-maxima

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

Sexy jesus wrote:

real quick what does a northstar weigh? if I had to guess more then a small block gm or ford. camshafts and timing chains are heavy and there is 4.

With accessories I've read a Northstar is 475, an LM7 is 520. Aluminum block LS's are about 100 pounds lighter than iron block truck engines though.

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

egesledder wrote:

The northstar is pretty equivalent to the Ford 5.0 weight wise, but much bulkier with the large, wide, DOHC heads.  I've been keeping an eye on cadillacs in the junk yard recently with the 4.9 Cadillac Miata build and its always surprising to see the number of northstars in the yard.

I'd say the major reason swaps like the northstar don't happen even outside of Lemons is that there are always far more LS 5.3's and 6.0's in the same yard that will cost the same, make more power, and probably be more reliable.

Not to mention the sky is the limit for aftermarket support for LS motors, There isn't much available for Northstars and the stuff that you can buy is geared for sandrail guys with money to burn.

Re: Why is it that nobody uses Northstars?

rlchv70 wrote:

What ever happened to this car?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/lemon … san-maxima

They listed it for sale for a long time and for what it had done (or not done?), they were probably asking a bit too much. I'd guess they either still have it on the Back 40 or they crushed it a couple years ago.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com