Topic: Cage feedback - mockup

Hey there,

We ended up going with a custom cage into our Alfa GTV6.  Fab shop is mocking it up and one thing I want to confirm is about the distance of the main hoop with regard to B pillar and front seat.  I can't find anything against this in the how to fail doc, but want to make double sure.

Where we have a nice mounting point to the floor is set back several inches from the B pillar and it gives lots of clearance so we aren't knocking out heads into the hoop, plus we might end up with a 6'4" driver who is talking about joining.

Would love it if someone could look at the images below and let me know if we are doing anythign wrong.  it will start getting welded in tomorrow.

Thanks!

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/peakay2002/Screen%20Shot%202018-07-01%20at%2010.59.24%20AM_zps7bmcsisz.png

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/peakay2002/Screen%20Shot%202018-07-01%20at%2010.59.51%20AM_zpsrglfwizg.png

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/peakay2002/Screen%20Shot%202018-07-01%20at%2011.10.19%20AM_zpsz2memwen.png

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/peakay2002/Screen%20Shot%202018-07-01%20at%2011.10.45%20AM_zpsv4elllop.png

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

I don't think you have any problems mounting it back behind the B pillar like that. Ours sits a good 4+ inches behind the rear edge of the pillar. Solid landing points are more important than lining up with a pillar. The only thing to consider is how far your seat will be from the harness bar. You'll need a seat back brace most likely to be in the rules for spacing.

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Re: Cage feedback - mockup

You may also need to push the mainstay bars as far back as they can legally go to get the best angle for them.
It looks like they'll be on a pretty acute angle going from the top of the main hoop to the top of the wheel well.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
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Re: Cage feedback - mockup

Thanks Guys.  Good points -- maybe we can move it forward to just behind that cross brace so that the mainstays are not too angled.  Might get away without a sea sty too in that case, but maybe not.

Any other issues?  Thank you.

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

Just remind your builder that the spreader plate requirements are larger than most other racing series requirements.

Hard to comment too much since it's so early in the process, but it looks like your builder is going to be getting the cage really well tucked to the roof, so that's good.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
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Re: Cage feedback - mockup

The main hoop location is fine. Ours is pretty far back too. The only concern, as others have said, is to be careful about the angle of the back bars.  You are looking a little tight to the rear shock/strut tower.

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Re: Cage feedback - mockup

TheEngineer wrote:

It looks like your builder is going to be getting the cage really well tucked to the roof, so that's good.

Yes, that is good -- we are really challenged with meeting the helmet clearance rule.  topic for another post i suppose.

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

So if we move it forward to be close or butt it up against the raised, cross support in front of the current position, can that work?  Does the bar need to be centered on the spreader plate?  Or, will we need to have the spreader plate bend and go up and over that support so the tube is more centered and we still get the required amount of square inches??

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

It does not need to be centered, Though that is preferred. But if you're up against that boxed support I would bend your spreader to tie it into that support anyway. If you're right up against it doing this will allow you to weld the bar vertically to the bent spreader section.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

Note that they don't take a protractor out to measure that your backstays are 45 degrees like in the How Not to Fail instructions and some leeway is allowed.  Personally, I'd be mailing these pictures to the head of tech john@evilgeniusracing who probably has caged lots of these cars and can offer suggestions.  Alfa Romeo Syndicate Eccellente runs a GTV6 and I know Wes is tall so this problem has been solved before and no need to re-invent the wheel on this.  If the choice is between shoving the main hoop forward and making it hard for your tall drivers to fit and asking John for suggestions, I'd go with the latter.  Note that he was at a race last weekend and there is a major fire near him so you may need to be a bit patient.

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Re: Cage feedback - mockup

Oh, I see you are in the OC.  Let me know if you want someone to come by and look things over.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

So more on this...due to the backstay angle issue and seat clearance, ideally we'd like to put the tube where the crosspiece is.  Cage builder thinks that that part is mostly there to support the rear seat and would like to cut out the sides of that so he has a nice secure place to do the spreader plates in the right position.

Other option is to butt the bar up against the rear of that area, but the result will be kinda wonky spreader plates and welder doesn't think he can do a good job welding it unless he has more room to weld, so it would have to back up a bit.

What do you guys think?  I'm not sure if he wants to really remove that for convenience and I have to take out the cross support if its really needed.  He said he could also add a tab and connect it to the cage.

Thanks!  Will also email the guy referenced earlier.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y452/peakay2002/20180702_133338_zpsqbgdoy71.jpg

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

I would box the cross member personally.  It is at least mildly structural and you will make it more so by boxing it.

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

I'd make a box around that cross support on each side and sit the main hoop on top of it. An upside down U shape with all sides to make a box. Will help tie everything in and connect the cage on multiple planes. Also helps welding the cage up tight to the roof as the main hoop can be "short," the box can fill in the gap.

-Killer B's (as in rally) '84 4000Q 4.2V8. Audis never win?

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

I also wouldn't cut that box. But you're starting to get to the point where you really want to be asking the people that will be doing your tech inspection.

pagel@24hoursoflemons.com gets you the head of safety. Shoot the pictures over to him and ask his opinion.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Cage feedback - mockup

You might also inquire as to the max angle on the main hoop.
Leaning it backward can get you the head clearance that you are looking for,
while also opening up the angle on the backstays.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater