Topic: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

A friend of mine gave me his former DD, 2003 Mazda 6 v6, after the engine started consuming oil. I was told it takes about a quart per tank. Does anyone have any similar experience with the Duratec? Right now I'm thinking I'll just put new coils on it (came with the car) and top up the oil as needed between stints.

Cursory internet search seems to say it could be weak spark, PCV, or just bad rings. The intake is coming off anyway to do the rear bank of coils, so I'll probably do the PCV then.

Also, any cage shop recommendations around the Detroit area?

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

We have suffered through oil consumption rates of around a quart per hour in the past. If it uses a quart per tank I would expect you to use it at a higher rate on track (depending on the source).

A quart per hour kinda sucks. A quart per tank would be a lot more tolerable.

I recommend doing something about it before entering a race. See if you can hit a track day in plenty of time to do something about the oil consumption if its out of hand under track conditions.

4 (edited by Fishah 2018-07-16 09:18 AM)

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Quart per tank is doable, but a huge pita nonetheless.

We won Class-B at Road America, having to refill a quart per tank. Except the last pit stop... We needed to save 30 seconds so we let it run dry in exchange for a chance to win the race.

FWIW though, a quart per tank on the street is probably not the same as a quart per tank at racing speeds.

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Where are you located and what races would you plan on going to? Adding a quart every fill-up wouldn't be a big deal at tracks where fueling is done at your paddock spot (Gingerman, all California races, etc.). But if you race at a track where fueling is done in the hot pits (Most tracks in the South/Gulf region), then you can't do anything during a fuel stop aside from add fuel, change drivers, and refill your suit cooler, if applicable. So in that case you'd be losing a lot of time making an extra stop in the cold pits just to add oil every time.

Either way, I agree you should try to quantify its on-track use and do something about it before the race to save yourself unnecessary heartache. How many miles are on the car? Maybe you'll get lucky and it just needs valve stem seals. Maybe you'll get unlucky and the rings are shot. I seriously doubt a bad PCV system is eating a quart every fuel tank.

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Gingerman is my closest track now. I have one Lemons race under my belt from way back in 2013 at CMP, but the team would drive on the grass to fill up at that gas station next to the track anyway. I know better than trying to win, so I'm not really worried about taking extra time on stops at first.

Car has ~115k I think. Rings seem to be an issue on these engines. I have a leakdown tester, so I'll be checking that

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Seems like a lot of oil consumption to start with, figuring making it act like a race car tends to find the weak point in the car good chance that will be the first thing to go unless its a slow leak and one quart per tank = loss from a couple weeks.  I'd really try to find the cause and fix it.

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

You could test for worn rings by doing a compression test.
Install testor into cyl instead of plug.
Bump starter & Read the cyl pressure.
Find the low cyl.
Add 1t oil into the cyl via the sparkplug hole of said suspect cylinder
Bump starter and re-read the cyl pressure
If the compression improves dramatically, worn rings is the likely culprit.
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9 (edited by jrbe 2018-07-16 04:09 PM)

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Are these known for sludge / gunk stuck oil control rings?

Could do a sea foam / kreen (kroil) cylinder soak to help free them.

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

In my lengthy experience with cars not known as the Saturn S-series, oil consumption on that level is rarely the rings (certain Chrysler motors excepted).  Normally it is one of many things but a not correctly functioning PCV system is top of the list.  If you are leaking vacuum everywhere, this is a hit.

Saturns get a pass because some moron designed them that way and we just live with it because when you fix the underlying design flaw, the motor then becomes cursed and breaks everything else including things a 15 year Saturn tech says he has never seen fail in the history of the world.

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

You might just need a good Eye-talian tune-up.

I'd be worried though about putting a car on track, that on the street uses 1qt/tank. If it stays at 1 quart/tank under racing conditions, that's manageable, but I'd be worried about it potentially using more on track.

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Way too thirsty. The worse of our two engines we ran untouched internally, wanted 1/2 quart Saturday evening to get back to full. You're going to forget in the heat of battle, run it hard, and spin a bearing. Entry is expensive. I'd make sure it doesn't START that broken, myself.

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Type44 wrote:

You're going to forget in the heat of battle, run it hard, and spin a bearing. Entry is expensive. I'd make sure it doesn't START that broken, myself.

Though I agree it is to thirsty I disagree with this.  We had one Saturn engine (oddly, our most reliable) that burned 1 quart per 2-2.5 hours.  We NEVER failed to check and add in 3 years of racing that car.  In a hot-pits situation it is more cumbersome but in paddock fueling it is just what the crew chief does the second the gas cap goes on...every time...all the time.

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

I got the intake off, it was surprisingly easy. The PCV line was absolutely filled with oil.

Unfortunately it seems like I messed up the threads on my leakdown hose and it won't screw in (m14). So now I'm waiting on another one in the mail.

Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

OnkelUdo wrote:
Type44 wrote:

You're going to forget in the heat of battle, run it hard, and spin a bearing. Entry is expensive. I'd make sure it doesn't START that broken, myself.

Though I agree it is to thirsty I disagree with this.  We had one Saturn engine (oddly, our most reliable) that burned 1 quart per 2-2.5 hours.  We NEVER failed to check and add in 3 years of racing that car.  In a hot-pits situation it is more cumbersome but in paddock fueling it is just what the crew chief does the second the gas cap goes on...every time...all the time.


Sure, it can be managed, as you illustrate. I'm just saying that if you KNOW your engine has that issue, why start the whole project with that extra thing to worry about? Did you KNOW your Saturn motor Had a huge drinking problem or did someone hit the track and report fluctuating oil pressure in corners?

I was just trying to illustrate the difference between losing a few gears in your automatic mid race, nursing it along and racing as best as you can, and knowing your transmission is wounded like that and entering a race anyway. I'd always do the former, and I'd NEVER do the latter.  Make sense?

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Re: New Project, how much oil consumption is too much?

Type44 wrote:

Did you KNOW your Saturn motor Had a huge drinking problem

Actually we did.  They all do.  Rebuilding them with oil return holes in the piston lands solves this issue but as mentioned earlier, it curses said race motor to failing on Friday test and tune so you run the old oil burner EVERY FRIGGIN RACE.