• Registered: 2018-08-23
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

Myself and several guys from work are hoping to put together a car for the December race. We haven't yet registered, as we don't yet have a concept or a car, but we want to really soon! We're a bit nervous about a few things as newbies - primarily purchasing the car and not getting accepted to the race, or otherwise missing something big.

Half our team is engineers, and we have access to a real actual large shop including manual tube bender and MIG/TIG welding equipment, so we intend to build our own cage, but we still want to be really sure to do it right. It'd be great to review our plans with an experienced cage builder, and have it pre-inspected before the race.

I've also put together a budget after reading all the rules, but it'd be nice to see how far off it is or if we're missing anything unexpected.

None of us have anything more than autocross experience, really. Some guys with track time on motorcycles; I've put in a bolt-on rollbar. That's about the speed of things. smile

  • VKZ24
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Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

What's your budget for the build?   Don't forget the cost of all the personal safety gear required along with entry fees to the race.

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  • gump
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Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

Make sure you understand the commitment you are making and consider looking for an arrive-and-drive opportunity before you commit to building a car.  You really don't have much time to find a car and prep it.  December sounds like a long way off but if you are like me and only really have weekends and few weeknights here and there, there are not that many work hours to get this done.  That's not even considering unforeseen complications that always seem to develop.

It's valuable to go through the experience of the race weekend before you build your own car as well.  You will have a fundamentally better understanding of what/what not to do with your car.  Given your location I assume you are planning on the December 7/8 race.  Not sure if there is anyone there who can provide you with a 'rental' race car.  Perhaps you should think about flying out for the December 2/3 race in Sonoma where you could likely secure a ride for your whole team with Spank or ChrisO?  This will also remove the risk of building a car and not being accepted to the race.

Finally, consider buying a race-ready, already passed tech car.  Generally speaking, you cannot build even a Lemons race car for what you can buy one for.  Now, for some people, the build is the most important part of the experience.  For others, its the racing.  Think through what is the most important for you and your team.

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  • Registered: 2018-08-23
  • Posts: 4

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

VKZ24 wrote:

What's your budget for the build?   Don't forget the cost of all the personal safety gear required along with entry fees to the race.

All our drivers are covering their own safety gear (~500/ea for the "kit"), so that isn't factored in to our car budget. We're planning to buy and share a single HANS. We've got about a $5000 budget beyond that for the car, entry fees, and other equipment combined, but even if it climbed a bit higher we'd still probably be able to foot it, so I'm not too worried. We've a got a few basic things already - a racing seat or two, jack, stands, extinguisher, a car that miiight be a candidate. But we'll need to get fuel jugs, the HANS, and a few other pieces of gear.

We've also got a lot of hands for work - a dedicated core team of 4-6, and about a half dozen others, all within the building, who are interested in helping with the build. Although, I do agree - December is really dang close without even having a definite car.

Our biggest concern is purchasing the car, putting in the cage and all, and then not getting a spot in the race. But...now that I look at the 2018 schedule, there doesn't seem to be a huge gap between other southern races. Every few months or so? We could take it to Alabama or South Carolina pretty easily...maybe we should just build the dang thing, eh?

We've got lots of craaazy concept ideas, but we're not sure how many could work. E.g. - can you have moving components on the outside of the vehicle? Active aero, for example? Yeah I know...$500 active aero, lol.

  • Registered: 2018-08-23
  • Posts: 4

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

gump wrote:

Make sure you understand the commitment you are making and consider looking for an arrive-and-drive opportunity before you commit to building a car.  You really don't have much time to find a car and prep it.  December sounds like a long way off but if you are like me and only really have weekends and few weeknights here and there, there are not that many work hours to get this done.  That's not even considering unforeseen complications that always seem to develop.

It's valuable to go through the experience of the race weekend before you build your own car as well.  You will have a fundamentally better understanding of what/what not to do with your car.  Given your location I assume you are planning on the December 7/8 race.  Not sure if there is anyone there who can provide you with a 'rental' race car.  Perhaps you should think about flying out for the December 2/3 race in Sonoma where you could likely secure a ride for your whole team with Spank or ChrisO?  This will also remove the risk of building a car and not being accepted to the race.

Finally, consider buying a race-ready, already passed tech car.  Generally speaking, you cannot build even a Lemons race car for what you can buy one for.  Now, for some people, the build is the most important part of the experience.  For others, its the racing.  Think through what is the most important for you and your team.

Thank you for the suggestions - planning on at least some of us attending the CMP race in September. And yes, we'd love to race Road Atlanta.

Building is important for all of us - we all design prototypes for a living and work on cars as a hobby.

Any idea how common it is for the grid to fill up? Differ by region/track?

  • From: Seacoast NH
  • Registered: 2013-01-01
  • Posts: 472

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

acousticlee wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

What's your budget for the build?   Don't forget the cost of all the personal safety gear required along with entry fees to the race.

All our drivers are covering their own safety gear (~500/ea for the "kit"), so that isn't factored in to our car budget. We're planning to buy and share a single HANS. We've got about a $5000 budget beyond that for the car, entry fees, and other equipment combined, but even if it climbed a bit higher we'd still probably be able to foot it, so I'm not too worried. We've a got a few basic things already - a racing seat or two, jack, stands, extinguisher, a car that miiight be a candidate. But we'll need to get fuel jugs, the HANS, and a few other pieces of gear.

We've also got a lot of hands for work - a dedicated core team of 4-6, and about a half dozen others, all within the building, who are interested in helping with the build. Although, I do agree - December is really dang close without even having a definite car.

Our biggest concern is purchasing the car, putting in the cage and all, and then not getting a spot in the race. But...now that I look at the 2018 schedule, there doesn't seem to be a huge gap between other southern races. Every few months or so? We could take it to Alabama or South Carolina pretty easily...maybe we should just build the dang thing, eh?

We've got lots of craaazy concept ideas, but we're not sure how many could work. E.g. - can you have moving components on the outside of the vehicle? Active aero, for example? Yeah I know...$500 active aero, lol.

Yes, I've seen active aero in Lemons a few times.  My favorite was a bowling ball in the trunk connected to the wing by a cable.  Hit the brakes wing goes up.  Step on the brakes and all aero drag was gone.  If I remember correctly the wing was a repurposed ironing board.

  Have a schedule and stick to it.  People with the best intentions sometimes drift away before the builds completed.  Good luck and look forward to seeing you on the track!

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  • Registered: 2015-05-13
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Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

acousticlee - Just sent you an email through this forum. I am on the coast in Charleston and can travel to the Atlanta area a couple times between now and the Atlanta race to help you guys get started. Respond to my email and let me know.

  • From: Tustin, CA
  • Registered: 2010-12-30
  • Posts: 3,275

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

https://youtu.be/kPKD85mFbkA


squidrope wrote:
acousticlee wrote:
VKZ24 wrote:

What's your budget for the build?   Don't forget the cost of all the personal safety gear required along with entry fees to the race.

All our drivers are covering their own safety gear (~500/ea for the "kit"), so that isn't factored in to our car budget. We're planning to buy and share a single HANS. We've got about a $5000 budget beyond that for the car, entry fees, and other equipment combined, but even if it climbed a bit higher we'd still probably be able to foot it, so I'm not too worried. We've a got a few basic things already - a racing seat or two, jack, stands, extinguisher, a car that miiight be a candidate. But we'll need to get fuel jugs, the HANS, and a few other pieces of gear.

We've also got a lot of hands for work - a dedicated core team of 4-6, and about a half dozen others, all within the building, who are interested in helping with the build. Although, I do agree - December is really dang close without even having a definite car.

Our biggest concern is purchasing the car, putting in the cage and all, and then not getting a spot in the race. But...now that I look at the 2018 schedule, there doesn't seem to be a huge gap between other southern races. Every few months or so? We could take it to Alabama or South Carolina pretty easily...maybe we should just build the dang thing, eh?

We've got lots of craaazy concept ideas, but we're not sure how many could work. E.g. - can you have moving components on the outside of the vehicle? Active aero, for example? Yeah I know...$500 active aero, lol.

Yes, I've seen active aero in Lemons a few times.  My favorite was a bowling ball in the trunk connected to the wing by a cable.  Hit the brakes wing goes up.  Step on the brakes and all aero drag was gone.  If I remember correctly the wing was a repurposed ironing board.

  Have a schedule and stick to it.  People with the best intentions sometimes drift away before the builds completed.  Good luck and look forward to seeing you on the track!

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  • Spank
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Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

cheseroo wrote:

https://youtu.be/kPKD85mFbkA

Just googling Active Aero Lemons comes up with quite a few hits

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwITMshKL1o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q37sgQwSrbY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rprz9YVe1s


https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=23821

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  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 308

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

Acousticlee,

We are just finishing up our car and will be at CMP in three weeks as a rookie team out of Birmingham.  Look up Half-Fast Racing with the green "Flying Turtle" (2001 Beetle) and I'll be glad to discuss build costs, time, etc.

The short version is:

Biggest costs for the car - $2600 for the cage (pro-built), $1,000 for 2 sets of tires (got a great deal but expect to pay more in the future), $700 for seat, $300 for the car, $300 for new rotors and pads on all four wheels.  Add $400 for the spare clutch, another $300 for a spare brake set, $100 for the harness, $100 for an oil cooler, and several hundred more for various odds and ends to make a POS car reasonably reliable.  I was visiting Pull-a-Part a lot this past summer, and I think the FEDEX and UPS guys have met regularly at my front door.  Your $5k is a good starting figure, but you're smart to be prepared for a bit more. I've bought some extra items that may be hard to find on Saturday night or not in stock at O'Reilly's or Autozone, so you could avoid some of the added cost but I wouldn't recommend counting on it.

Best advice is to talk to a lot of teams at CMP.  Most teams should be willing to talk about building and costs, especially if you offer them a beer or three.

Stan

  • Registered: 2011-10-14
  • Posts: 4,167

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

Stan in Bham wrote:

Add $400 for the spare clutch.

Holy crap, what is that clutch made of...unicorn farts?  Otherwise, the $4500 to $5000 range is not a bad place to start.

  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 308

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

No, it's just hard to find good HD Beetle clutches.  Who in their right mind wants to race a Beetle?

  • Registered: 2011-10-14
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Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

Stan in Bham wrote:

No, it's just hard to find good HD Beetle clutches.  Who in their right mind wants to race a Beetle?

Clutches, if of minimal quality, are never the issue in road racing as they are not really pushed.  One clutch disc (friction material sperated) in a 5-6 years of 3 races a year.  It even finished the day.

Everything else fails, clutches not so much (exception for "dual mass" flywheels)

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Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

OnkelUdo wrote:
Stan in Bham wrote:

No, it's just hard to find good HD Beetle clutches.  Who in their right mind wants to race a Beetle?

Clutches, if of minimal quality, are never the issue in road racing as they are not really pushed.  One clutch disc (friction material sperated) in a 5-6 years of 3 races a year.  It even finished the day.

Everything else fails, clutches not so much (exception for "dual mass" flywheels)

My clutches cost $75. I guess that's the bonus when you are using the clutch from an 95 F150 for your "racecar".
They have lasted surprisingly long; I guess that's because even though we have the torque of a 302 being applied, we aren't dropping the clutch to launch the car. It's not drag racing.

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  • Registered: 2018-02-19
  • Posts: 39

Re: Newcomers in the Atlanta area looking for general help

acousticlee How did you guys end up doing? We're an Atlanta based team as well just starting our build.

Check out our YouTube Channel to see out shity car.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je_ZhLJ … 2&t=0s