Topic: Fuel Cell Noob Question

I will be using a fuel cell for the first time at CMP and have some questions about the filler configuration.

Looking at the different options, I can get a sealed cap, a vented cap, or a filler neck with or without a flapper valve.

I was just going to mount it in the trunk and open the trunk for refuels, so which filler is correct, or does it make a difference?

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Solid cap is fine. They do need a vent, but they want to see a vent tube with a roll over check valve. Tube needs to go up above the cell, make a few loops, then exit down below the fuel cell lowest level. Ours works as you describe, open trunk, remove solid cap, fill, replace cap, close trunk.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Only question...how accessible in full gear, holding almost 40#'s, while controlling the dump rate, is thatt cap.  We failed to take this into account when we got a driect fill, solid cap.  Think long and hard about this.

Granted ours in the 1947 Plymouth so that cap is way back in there and the trunk lid only opens about 100 degrees...we are now modifying the trunk openning to allow less hunched over filling.  Direct fill is cheaper (no expensive fill hose), less parts to fail, etc but you have to focus on exactly how you are getting the jug to it and what it might hit when full vertacle.

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Thanks, our trunk lid goes vertical and access looks really good. We'll try it before the race to make sure, but I'm guessing that we'll be refueling at the pump anyway. This car is an awful pile of greasy rust and we haven't done much prep, so we won't be pushing too hard on it's first outing and will probably pit on the hour to make sure it still has all of it's assorted fluids intact. I figure we'll turn some smooth easy laps and try to keep it together and break 200 laps without anything blowing up or falling off. Opinions are divided among the team on the likelihood of that happening, so I'm keeping my eyes open for junkyard Buick 231's and THM 350s in case we do have to get wrenchy.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

rmcdaniels wrote:

I will be using a fuel cell for the first time at CMP and have some questions about the filler configuration.

Looking at the different options, I can get a sealed cap, a vented cap, or a filler neck with or without a flapper valve.

I was just going to mount it in the trunk and open the trunk for refuels, so which filler is correct, or does it make a difference?

I can tell you what happens if the flapper valve is installed in the wrong orientation.  Ever had a gas shower?  It's quite spectacular to watch, but not so much fun when you're the one getting doused.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

We have been fueling with a standard cap cell for five years now, only drawback is it can be difficult to control when it is full so if you miss calculate you may end up with a gallon of gas in the funnel and nowhere for it to go.
When we moved to injection and required a return line I drilled the cap and added the rollover valve and vent to the cap.

..one more thing, if you have a dirt track type cell with the pick up and return on different sides you want the pick up on the left and return on the right as most of our tracks we turn right unlike our dirt track friends. We made this mistake first time out with a cell and ended up pushing a lot of gas out the breather when the cell was full.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

You need to make a plunger for your funnel like a big version of the lisle radiator funnel.
https://images.oreillyauto.com/parts/img/large/lis/24610.jpg

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Guildenstern wrote:

You need to make a plunger for your funnel like a big version of the lisle radiator funnel.

I like it, I have thought about a stop valve, the problem is getting one big enough as the opening is 4 inches in the cell and the funnel ideally would be at least 2 inches for maximum fuel dumping.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

I'd just pipe it to the rear quarter panel if I wanted fast fueling, but I'm not in a "fast fueling" mode yet, more of a "hey, this stupid car doesn't have a gas tank" mode right now. I've got a little marine outboard tank sitting on the passenger side floor right now, but I'm guessing that won't make it through tech.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

10 (edited by Guildenstern 2018-08-17 08:20 PM)

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Brett85p wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

You need to make a plunger for your funnel like a big version of the lisle radiator funnel.

I like it, I have thought about a stop valve, the problem is getting one big enough as the opening is 4 inches in the cell and the funnel ideally would be at least 2 inches for maximum fuel dumping.


Ball valve can do that. Be cautious of material that can build static. You could even make it to hold the funnel in the hole but still get to the valve.

Fabricobble Engage!!!

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss … k%3A2+inch

Use a big bugger like this funnel
https://www.amazon.com/UltraTech-Polyet … l&th=1

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Guildenstern wrote:
Brett85p wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

You need to make a plunger for your funnel like a big version of the lisle radiator funnel.

I like it, I have thought about a stop valve, the problem is getting one big enough as the opening is 4 inches in the cell and the funnel ideally would be at least 2 inches for maximum fuel dumping.


Ball valve can do that. Be cautious of material that can build static. You could even make it to hold the funnel in the hole but still get to the valve.

Fabricobble Engage!!!

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss … k%3A2+inch

Use a big bugger like this funnel
https://www.amazon.com/UltraTech-Polyet … l&th=1

Drum Funnels have so much potential here, thanks for the links.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

12 (edited by DRVOLKS 2018-08-24 09:31 AM)

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

We ran a fuel cell last race at Thompson and I do not get why they want you to do a loop and dump below the tank ? It can make the filling spit back a lot and give you a false sense of the tank being full. On the check valves in the vent line they said some do get stuck and yes I have seen some get rusty but still seal .  DRVOLKS

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

DRVOLKS wrote:

We ran a fuel cell last race at Thompson and I do not get why they want you to do a loop and dump below the tank


Maybe because of those pesky rules?


Lemons Rules Nazi wrote:

3.H.4.b Fuel Cell Vent Lines. All non-OE fuel vent line(s) must end in a safe location that is lower than the bottom of the fuel cell.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

I do not get why they want you to do a loop and dump below the tank ?

The loop is so that if fuel goes up the vent it can't start a syphon and you end up with a gallon of gas leaving the tank every time you go around a corner.

Dumping below the tank is so that when you end up upside down all the fuel doesn't just come gushing out and causing a fireball.

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

And taking that a step further, if you are having slow venting you probably have fluid in your loop and it's basically acting like a U-trap. Drain your janky gas fume still.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Have a look at this post about the vent lines. Basically what you want is for the vent line to go outside the edges of the fuel cell so that in whatever rollover state you find yourself, the fuel can't get past its own level in the fuel cell and drain out.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general … ystem.html

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Can't get an OEM replacement tank for that old Buick?  Might be the cheapest and easiest solution.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

Maybe, but I kind of wanted a fuel cell around here anyway, and now it's here, so may as well use it.

Today I finally gave up on getting the snapped off bolt out of the transmission and the tail shaft housing is going on with three bolts. I spent way too much time getting my new BMW ready for VIR this weekend, so the Buick is in too many pieces for it being this close to the race. I have a feeling that we will be wrenching and welding on Thursday night and Friday morning.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: Fuel Cell Noob Question

rmcdaniels wrote:

Maybe, but I kind of wanted a fuel cell around here anyway, and now it's here, so may as well use it.

Today I finally gave up on getting the snapped off bolt out of the transmission and the tail shaft housing is going on with three bolts. I spent way too much time getting my new BMW ready for VIR this weekend, so the Buick is in too many pieces for it being this close to the race. I have a feeling that we will be wrenching and welding on Thursday night and Friday morning.

Well, join the club.  Our current open items list on the car shows about 30 hours of work left to do before the race.  I have about 12 hours this weekend.  Luckily with 4 guys we should be able to knock the rest out in 7 hours or so on Friday.

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["