1 (edited by waffle_stomp 2018-09-18 09:03 AM)

Topic: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

%editing my orig. post considering i found more info confirming that nothing other than fueling can be done in the hot pits

Can someone please walk me through an "efficient" pit stop example.

My current baseless thinking is:


--> driver_A pits
--> driver_B walks into pits with fuel and team fire extinguisher
--> driver_A exits car
--> driver_A using extinguisher provides fire watch with the driver_B fuels
--> fueling complete
--> driver_B buckles into car and checks comms
--> driver_A notes tire pressure
--> driver_A check fluids
--> driver_A clears the pits and gives all clear to driver_B.

This assumes we can check fluids/tire pressure in the pits. I am assuming that the rule:
During fueling, the kill switch must be off; no one can be in the car; and NO other work may be done (no fluid or tire checks, no screwing with the camera, etc.)

I am assuming that the above only applies during the act of fueling and that once fueling is complete we can check fluids and tire pressures in the pits.

Please let me know what y'all have found to work best, this is really just a WAG as we have never done this before smile

-Zac

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

waffle_stomp wrote:

Can someone please walk me through an "efficient" pit stop example.

My current baseless thinking is:


--> driver_A pits
--> driver_B walks into pits with fuel and team fire extinguisher
--> driver_A exits car
--> driver_A using extinguisher provides fire watch with the driver_B fuels
--> fueling complete
--> driver_B buckles into car and checks comms
--> driver_A notes tire pressure
--> driver_A check fluids
--> driver_A clears the pits and gives all clear to driver_B.

This assumes we can check fluids/tire pressure in the pits. I am assuming that the rule:
During fueling, the kill switch must be off; no one can be in the car; and NO other work may be done (no fluid or tire checks, no screwing with the camera, etc.)

I am assuming that the above only applies during the act of fueling and that once fueling is complete we can check fluids and tire pressures in the pits.

Please let me know what y'all have found to work best, this is really just a WAG as we have never done this before smile

-Zac

No other work in the hot pits means NO other work, period.

In the regular pit area you can do what you want, EXEPT fuel the car.  At most tracks you can only fuel in the hot pits or in a designated fueling area typically away from the main pit or garage area.


Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Having two helpers in the hot pits is beneficial. Call your driver in, wait for them at the wall. When they're parked help them get out, flip your kill switch, and then fuel the car while the driver that just got out catches their breath. Having two helpers is important for making sure you get the belts tight on the next driver. It's impossible for the person in the seat to get them fully tight, and it's super hard to do it with one person since you have to move from one side of the car to the other or perform some fun contortions leaning over the driver.


The only other thing you can do is add ice to your cool shirt cooler.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

4 (edited by RobL 2018-09-18 09:51 AM)

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Here is ours:

Driver A pits.
Driver B (next driver in car) helps A out of the car. 
Driver C holds the extinguisher
Driver D fuels when A is cleared of the car - signal is raised hands
Drivers A & B go over the wall and talk about the car and traffic and anything else B needs to know.
Drivers A & B make sure that D has a fuel jug ready on the cold side of the wall and swaps are made as needed
Driver D ends fueling and replaces the cap - end is signaled by raising hands
Driver B gets in the car and gets buckled in by A and C who are in the car doors (radio connector, cool suit connector, belt buckles, seat padding if needed)
Driver D adds ice to cool suit cooler
Once all work is done, doors are closed and driver side helper bangs on the roof when pit lane is clear to go. 

We can get all that done in about 3 minutes.

EDIT:
I'm going to add that we are a seasoned team.  3 minutes is quick.  As a novice team, do not rush your stops.  Do them methodically and make sure nothing gets missed.  I see all kinds of in car video of loose belts or belts that are not over their H&N restraint.  Take the time to get it done correctly each time and every time.  Speed will come with experience.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

I can't even dump a load of fuel in three minutes...

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

6 (edited by RobL 2018-09-18 10:21 AM)

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Hunsacker fuel jugs.  They dump in about 30 second per 5 gallons (we use 3).  We even have the stock filler restriction on the gas tank so we could decrease that even more if we take that out.  We leave it in so that it keeps the backsplash to a minimum.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Hmm, yea I'll probably consider those for next year. Our car takes 20-gallons per pit-stop, so with four VP jugs it takes like six minutes just to fuel.

#33 Ford Festiva - We Are Not Really From Iran (Retired)
#928 Porsche 928 - West German Pushrodders (Retired)
#3 BMW E36 - The Internet says this is correct

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

waffle_stomp wrote:


--> driver_A using extinguisher provides fire watch with the driver_B fuels
--> fueling complete
--> driver_B buckles into car...

You may wish to consider switching roles, as doing it the way you've described runs a greater risk that driver_B may (and/or will) end up covered in fuel right before wanting to climb into the car. We generally have the exiting driver handle the pouring of fuel, just in case.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

+1 For the hot, tired driver getting out to fuel the car. Keep the driver going in as clean as possible.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
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Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Including the driver getting out of the car we always have 3 guys fully suited up for pit stops.  We share a hans so that becomes part of the process.

Exiting Driver gets out of car and removes his hans
Entering Driver double checks the kill switch, takes the hans from Exiting Driver, puts it on and stands back.
While the hans exchange is happening the Fueler gets ready fuel.
As soon as the Exiting Driver has the hans off he mans the extinguisher
Once the extinguisher is manned the Fueler removes the fuel cap and fuel goes in.
Once the fuel is in and the cap is on the Entering Driver climbs in and the others strap him in and hook him up.

I've never liked the idea of taking a hot and tired driver out of the car and making him hoist 35 lb. jugs of fuel into the air.

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Glad for this noob question, so I didn't have to be the one to ask.

I'm feeling surprisingly OCD about the idea of pouring fuel on any of our race gear.  Lucky for us, we've got a spare helmet, gloves and large suit be enough that we can all share it just for fueling duties.  The one thing I haven't been able to sort is footwear.   We could probably come up with a common pair of shoes for the fueler to wear since we're all within a size or two of each other.  But.....here's my stupid noob question:

Is there such a thing as a fueling apron or something else that could keep splash off the feet and lower legs, if there is some overflow?  Or is everyone certain that, in reality, this never happens?

Feel free to shout down my anxiety.  It's what my wife does.  With some success.

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

While it's sub-optimal to spill it on your stuff, fuel will evaporate.  As was said earlier, you don't want your new driver to be the one near the fueling.  At worst he should be holding the extinguisher.  At best, he's over the wall yelling at the others to either stay away from the car or making sure everyone's visors are down.  Yes, they do make overalls for fueling.  You can see the good ol boys of Nascar wearing them every weekend.  They don't do spit to protect your shoes.  I wouldn't worry about shoes.  You just sorta natural keep your feel apart while pouring fuel in but if you are worried, just don't keep your feet under the fuel jug.  Really, what you want to be OCD about is spilling fuel anywhere.  You need a drip pan under the fuel tank opening.  You need to make sure your fuel jug caps are on very tight.  You need to pay attention while fueling that it's getting full.  Our RX7 filler makes a different noise as the fuel backs up into the filler neck.  Listen for that.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

You can get one of those big silver aprons that you see the NASCAR guys using but they won't keep your shoes dry.

Like RobL above, we still have the fueling restrictor in our car and I'm convinced it goes a long way toward preventing massive sprays of fuel when the tank is full.  The tube from our fuel jug fits snugly into the restrictor opening and when the tank is full it just sort of runs out the neck and down the side of the car even if you've got the jug tipped way up high.  We also have a fairly long hose on the jug that allows us to stand back a little ways from the car - I'm sure that helps as well.  I don't think I've ever gotten fuel on my gear and I've been very surprised by the tank suddenly being full on more than one occassion.

Electric Mayhem Racing

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

We typically use a three-person strategy too:
#1 Driver coming in - gets out and mans the fire extinguisher
#2 Driver going out - does not participate in fuelling
#3 Random person - lays the drip pan down, moves the three jugs to the back of the car and opens the trunk
When #3 is covered by #1 with the extinguisher caps come off and gas goes in
When #3 has re-capped the fuel cell and jugs #2 gets in and #1 helps with belts from the driver's side so they can give warnings, advice, etc. about the state of the track and traffic
#3 moves to the passenger side to yank on belts on that side

We typically can get back out in about 3-4 minutes but full disclosure we have multiple HANS.

YMMV

#98 Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight - Class A car in the hands of a Class D team - MSR Houston IOE!

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

RobL wrote:

Here is ours:

Driver A pits.
Driver B (next driver in car) helps A out of the car. 
Driver C holds the extinguisher
Driver D fuels when A is cleared of the car - signal is raised hands
Drivers A & B go over the wall and talk about the car and traffic and anything else B needs to know.
Drivers A & B make sure that D has a fuel jug ready on the cold side of the wall and swaps are made as needed
Driver D ends fueling and replaces the cap - end is signaled by raising hands
Driver B gets in the car and gets buckled in by A and C who are in the car doors (radio connector, cool suit connector, belt buckles, seat padding if needed)
Driver D adds ice to cool suit cooler
Once all work is done, doors are closed and driver side helper bangs on the roof when pit lane is clear to go. 

We can get all that done in about 3 minutes.

EDIT:
I'm going to add that we are a seasoned team.  3 minutes is quick.  As a novice team, do not rush your stops.  Do them methodically and make sure nothing gets missed.  I see all kinds of in car video of loose belts or belts that are not over their H&N restraint.  Take the time to get it done correctly each time and every time.  Speed will come with experience.

This and the face to face communication between incoming driver and outgoing driver is very beneficial,and the ability to sap HANS if necessary.

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

What RobL said is spot on. We run 2 hour stints so the driver coming out is usually pretty gassed. I don't want to rely on him doing anything other than getting out of the way and drinking water. We do 3 person stops like mentioned.
New Driver (1) tosses down Drip pan and helps Old driver (2) out. Old driver goes over wall and drinks the water waiting on the wall smile New and old driver might chat while Fueler (3) fuels and someone else is on Firewatch (4). New Driver might hand over fuel jugs to the fueler. When fueling is complete, Firewatch goes to Pass side to swap camera and assist with buckles. Fueler helps new driver in.

The main thing is to have clear roles. We were short a man for a stop and it threw us off. We ended up forgetting to toss on the Fuel cap.:(

If you need an extra hand or want help with your pits come find us. We will be the 111 Grey and green MR2 that should be close to the Judge area.

Jason
Car #111
91 Toyota MR2

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

PoMan wrote:

We run 2 hour stints so the driver coming out is usually pretty gassed. I don't want to rely on him doing anything other than getting out of the way and drinking water. We do 3 person stops like mentioned.
New Driver (1) tosses down Drip pan and helps Old driver (2) out. Old driver goes over wall and drinks the water waiting on the wall smile New and old driver might chat while Fueler (3) fuels and someone else is on Firewatch (4). New Driver might hand over fuel jugs to the fueler. When fueling is complete, Firewatch goes to Pass side to swap camera and assist with buckles. Fueler helps new driver in.

The main thing is to have clear roles


FWIW, we've been at this for 10 seasons now, and that's what we do as well.  The driver's only job is to DRIVE, and when that job is done, he's to do nothing, but get out of the car and rest.  As has been said in bold above, as long as each person knows his/her role, things go much more smoothly, and thus more quickly.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

It is possible to configure a Hunsaker to dump five gallons in six or seven seconds into a standard Fuel Safe fill plate without poking any additional holes in the jug  At that point it is the size of the vent line on the cell that limits the rate.

Yes, over-fills can be messy.

I've only seen one faster jug-based fill system, and that only worked with one of the giant bail-handled filler plates.

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

When you guys are adding fuel to the car, do you have quick fill adapters or is it just the oem filler? If I removed the little flapper plate in my fill neck I could get fuel down the tube faster/easier....but I worry about having a cap as the only thing keeping the fuel from splashing back out of the filler neck. while driving the car.

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20 (edited by VKZ24 2018-09-19 08:13 AM)

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Safety3rdRacing wrote:

When you guys are adding fuel to the car, do you have quick fill adapters or is it just the oem filler? If I removed the little flapper plate in my fill neck I could get fuel down the tube faster/easier....but I worry about having a cap as the only thing keeping the fuel from splashing back out of the filler neck. while driving the car.

We removed the OEM flapper, but otherwise just use the stock fill tube.  We've never had an issue spilling fuel going around the track using just the OEM fuel cap.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Also fearing spillage, I kept the flapper but enlarged the hole that it covers to little over an inch.  The flapper still fully covers the hole when its shut.  How far you can go will obviously depend on the car.  We can dump 5 gallons from a Hunsaker in 20-30 seconds.

Electric Mayhem Racing

22 (edited by BoB 2018-09-20 09:40 AM)

Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Like alot of the people here I'm a big fan of the 4 person stop, Not only does it keep the guy who will be driving from getting fuel on them, depending on the weather the guy coming out might be in rough shape and not really fit to do much of anything but drink some water.  It also give the guy coming out a chance to tell the guy coming in anything they should know about the car or track.  Like the brakes are starting to fade or there is a mystery fluid on in turn 10, not sure what it is but stay away from it.

I also find it way easier to have 2 people help strap the driver in the car.  One person on each side of the car makes tighten the straps much quicker and easier to get them in secure.

As for enlarging the fueling hole we just used a hole saw to cut it larger in the stock place.  no flapper anymore but the oem seems to keep the fuel where we want it.

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Re: Noob pit stop walk through needed (racing@MSR in Nov!)

Fishah wrote:

Hmm, yea I'll probably consider those for next year. Our car takes 20-gallons per pit-stop, so with four VP jugs it takes like six minutes just to fuel.

VP jugs can pour 5 gallons in 20-30 seconds through a 1" hose.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z