Topic: Pointless turn 3 crash

The link is to my view of a crash in turn 3 Sunday afternoon.
My apologies to everyone involved for my part in this accident.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp2r27kRv0g

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

A good learning lesson here. I can't tell you how many times I see a car pass, but not finish the pass before chopping over on the other car. I must stab my brakes to avoid getting my nose chopped a good 5 times a weekend. Mirrors are your friend, do not assume the other car will lift to let you finish a pass.

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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

Some drivers forget there’s still car behind the back of their seat.

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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

If this was car bowling, you'd be killing it! Three knockdowns in one.

Sadly we don't get points for that here sad

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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

TheEngineer wrote:

A good learning lesson here. I can't tell you how many times I see a car pass, but not finish the pass before chopping over on the other car. I must stab my brakes to avoid getting my nose chopped a good 5 times a weekend. Mirrors are your friend, do not assume the other car will lift to let you finish a pass.

I second all of this. At least twice during my stint at Sears on Saturday, faster cars chopped over so close that if we'd had another layer of paint on our car, there would have been contact.

Dear Choppy Drivers - please remember the most likely car to be spun out by a failed chopover is your own via the Self PIT Maneuver. Just wait an extra half second to cut back.

And to rondebruin... good on you for posting your video and acknowledging your track space acquisition error.

18X Loser - Delinquent Racing - '86 TRUMPACO Merkur - '18 Northworst, Pointless, '17 Freeze, Sweat, Pointless, '16 Pointless, Vodden, Sweat, Turrible, Freeze - '15 Vodden, Freeze. '96 Taurus SHO Skunk - '17 Vodden (Hope for the Future award - not me, rookies), '15 Pointless, Turrible. A&D w/Panting Polar Bears '17 Turrible, w/Pit Crew Revenge '18 Vodden. w/Flying Scotsman '18 Arse Freeze.

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

Fishah wrote:

If this was car bowling, you'd be killing it! Three knockdowns in one.

Sadly we don't get points for that here sad

I was kinda impressed.  We were the third car ahead of the crash and still got taken out.  Normally you come into a crash that happens in front of you, in Sonoma the crash comes up on you.

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1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

To those who see this as a simple chop pass gone bad. I ask that you watch the clip again, particularly the slow motion.  Watch the yellow Mustang in my rearview mirror. I did not just pull over into the the Mustang.
Did I elevate the disaster potential but sticking my nose in there? Absolutely. 
Did I go car bowling? No.

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

rondebruin wrote:

To those who see this as a simple chop pass gone bad. I ask that you watch the clip again, particularly the slow motion.  Watch the yellow Mustang in my rearview mirror. I did not just pull over into the the Mustang.
Did I elevate the disaster potential but sticking my nose in there? Absolutely. 
Did I go car bowling? No.

Lemons is an everybody at fault series. And that was for sure a shared incident. You started drifting left to try and pass the car in front of you without ensuring you were actually in front of the mustang. You never fully cleared them, so that space was not open. You drifted towards them as they tried to pull back past you again. The right move would have been to check the mirror, see that they were still there, and hold back behind the car ahead of you (which was drifting left the whole time), and find the next safe passing spot.

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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

TheEngineer wrote:

Lemons is an everybody at fault series.

I know that's the rule, but that's a tough pill to swallow if you're the vw or especially the cherry picker car in the video.

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

To TheEngineer.
Thank you for a more articulate description. I agree with everything you said in your last post.

The point of me posting this in the first place is to apologize to those that got taken out who were entirely innocent.
And hopefully as a learning tool for everyone who views it.

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

FWIW, this happens in turn 3 a lot.  Very similar incident on Sunday:

https://youtu.be/7p5tv08dKLw?t=12579

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

rondebruin wrote:

To TheEngineer.
Thank you for a more articulate description. I agree with everything you said in your last post.

The point of me posting this in the first place is to apologize to those that got taken out who were entirely innocent.
And hopefully as a learning tool for everyone who views it.

And good on your for doing so. Getting wrapped up in a big accident sucks for all involved, turning it into a learning experience is a good way to follow it up. I was not trying to demean you for the incident, only provide commentary. I've pulled moves like that before myself, and thankfully the other car slowed down to avoid the contact instead of pushing on to try and take the spot back, it's eye opening and makes me check my mirrors more to avoid doing it again.

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13 (edited by cheseroo 2019-03-12 09:28 AM)

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

blinded wrote:

FWIW, this happens in turn 3 a lot.  Very similar incident on Sunday:

https://youtu.be/7p5tv08dKLw?t=12579

In general, it's just not a very good place to pass when there are multiple cars around especially since there's a very good opportunity for a clean pass after the next corner.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

Glad you posted the video. Yes the mustang could've backed off as soon as your nose got passed them.  But you didn't finish the pass.  The mustang probably felt that you were going to slow down and tuck in behind the slower car then he could get by both of you.  You never cleared the Mustang.  Your fault.  We've all made mistakes.  Hope by posting the video we all learn from it.

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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

squidrope wrote:

Glad you posted the video. Yes the mustang could've backed off as soon as your nose got passed them.  But you didn't finish the pass.  The mustang probably felt that you were going to slow down and tuck in behind the slower car then he could get by both of you.  You never cleared the Mustang.  Your fault.  We've all made mistakes.  Hope by posting the video we all learn from it.

Yea 100% the Mustang did nothing wrong.

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Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

Fishah wrote:

Yea 100% the Mustang did nothing wrong.

I agree that the Mustang got squeezed and the pass hadn't been completed.   Anyone have a good explanation, though, for how the Mustang winds up shooting past the camera car and other car they hit, only to collect the black car that was way up ahead?  I still can't figure that one out.  Unless they got on the grass, had no good way to slow and momentum carried them that far forward.

Not looking to blame, just trying to understand how that happened if anyone has insight.

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

Looks like the Mustang might have gotten pushed into the grass like you mentioned, and then as apparently trying to clear the impending mess, got bumped in the rear by the spinning 900 LiquiMoly car, which turned the front of the Mustang into the further car which had slowed and was close to the berm by that time.

Not knowing protocol, and having zero track experience, it looks to me the Mustang driver was trying to clear the mess _and_ that side of the track [I assume to make it easier for support vehicles to help out] understanding that the next destination would be the penalty box, yes?

18 (edited by Emyr 2019-03-14 02:32 PM)

Re: Pointless turn 3 crash

At the start of the clip, you're at the back of a 7 car train. You commit to overtaking what I assume are two of the faster cars in that train while up ahead, the black sedan is being passed on its left by the white and blue cars.

At about 6 seconds, the Golf moves left. The brake lights don't come on until almost a second later. You lifted in reaction to the brake lights and switched straight to braking. You should have lifted when the Golf changed its line, so by the time it starts braking, your suspension is in a more neutral position and you're poised to brake.

You're focusing on the one bumper in front of you, and you're not looking or thinking far enough ahead.

This is endurance racing, it should be ebb and flow, not dart and dive.