Topic: Using a foreign registered car?

Can anyone point me in the right direction regarding bringing a car over from the UK for a  2020 Lemon Rally?

We don’t anticipate bringing it back (will sell either as a useable car or for scrap ideally somewhere close to the rally finish or our return airport) but that may mean import duties so I’d need to know what they are and how they’re calculated.

I also need to know if we need anything other than insurance to legally use a UK registered car in the USA?

Thanks for your help!  :-)

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

MHarrell is the guy to ask. He'll be around here eventually.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

3 (edited by DirtyDuc 2019-03-16 06:59 AM)

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

I'm not a customs or any other kind of lawyer, nor do I play one on tv.

I believe there to be the equivalent of a carnet... But that assumes you are taking it back with you. Leaving it here means importing it, I think.

Much easier if it is over 25 years old... But I don't know the details on that. I think you still need a licensed importer to help/sign paperwork.

Probably easiest at a land border.

That guy

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

Yeah, I did think that maybe bringing it in for a holiday, aiming to return home with it later might be the best thing to be seen to be doing.....but if it happened to break down/get stolen/set on fire whilst there then obviously I couldn't take it home.

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

Over 25 years is unlikely (too valuable compared to say 15-20 year old bangers).

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

therood wrote:

MHarrell is the guy to ask. He'll be around here eventually.

I've only done this myself for the permanent import of a car over 25 years old, which is the magical age for the waiver of all EPA and NHTSA (DOT) import regulations. Still, I've looked into the rest of the process:

A nonresident may bring in a vehicle for personal use for one year (no extensions possible) without import duty. The vehicle must "accompany" your arrival (I assume you're the owner) but I don't know precisely how simultaneous the two arrivals must be. For road use you'll need US insurance but you can use your UK registration. Getting US registration would be a needlessly painful experience. Besides, running the UK plates would look cooler. Assuming you're keeping the UK plates (trust me, keep the UK plates), the vehicle must display a "GB" registration code either as a separate plate or as part of its EU-formatted registration plate, if that's what you've got on it. (Vehicles from Canada and Mexico don't need to display their codes, so we almost never see country codes on vehicles over here. Still, it's a requirement.)

If the vehicle is less than 25 years old (referring to the actual day, month, and year of manufacture of the one you own, not "model year" or "registration date" or such), it must be exported at the end of the year. You may not sell it. The Feds are quite serious about this. Yes, there's a procedure for bringing a newer vehicle into US compliance but you've got to commit to this process before importing it. Also it's prohibitively expensive and time-consuming to do so.

It's probably possible to scrap the vehicle instead of exporting it but you'd better get permission from the Feds before scrapping it and make sure you document the whole process through a licensed scrap dealer, as otherwise the Feds may not believe you. They know quite well that people want to take advantage of the system to "permanently" bring in noncompliant vehicles. I would advise making it clear to everyone that you fully intend to export it before the end of its year here. Don't even mention the possibility of scrapping it, as that's something you can work out if necessary should the car become wrecked or otherwise inoperable after it's here.

You'll need to arrange the import paperwork in advance, so dealing with a professional import broker is probably a good idea. I suggest reading this as a good starting point:

https://www.cbp.gov/trade/basic-import- … orting-car

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

But if it's interesting enough to bring over, a legally imported car is probably more valuable here to the collector market.

That guy

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

DirtyDuc wrote:

But if it's interesting enough to bring over, a legally imported car is probably more valuable here to the collector market.

Perhaps, but there are also any number of "interesting enough" cars that still aren't valuable enough to cover much more than maybe the shipping costs. I own an Austin Allegro, an Austin Maestro, and two British-market Volvo 66 GLs that were all brought over by other people simply for the joy(?) of ownership. In each case after the joy had waned I picked them up for what I suspect was financially a loss. That's also how I got my former MG Metro.

I suppose if thegoose wants to bring over a reasonably nice Triumph Acclaim for not a lot of money, maybe we could make a deal after the rally...

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

Maybe if you mentioned what kind of car it is, there might be some people interested in keeping it after you are done rallying it.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

rb92673 wrote:

Maybe if you mentioned what kind of car it is, there might be some people interested in keeping it after you are done rallying it.

Cough Cough

11 (edited by thegoose 2019-03-18 03:30 AM)

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

mharrell many thanks for your post, very useful.  The rough shipping cost one way is £1000 and we could coordinate the car's arrival with our own - given we have up to 12 months I guess we don't need proof of pre-booked shipping back home again?  Obviously I would declare that it's going to be taken back home again but if I was really careless and drove it into a wall it would be better scrapped (through an official channel).  On the other hand, return shipping is probably a lot cheaper than outward, but it still an additional expense.  Any idea what scrap prices are like over there?  I just scrapped a 2002 Ford Mondeo as a complete running car and got £200 for it, which probably equates to around £130/tonne.

I've no idea what the car will be - I'm in the trade and cars come and go frequently.  A few weeks ago I bought a very serviceable 1996 Range Rover 2.5 DSE for £400 (now sold) and that sort of thing would seem suitable for a rally (big and comfy).  I thought I read that the car had be no more than $500 which is what we're aiming at, but rather than trying to arrange a car or two (depends how many friends I can get to join me - 8 of us just went doing Olympic Bobsleigh racing and Luge run in France, the same number for our next lads' trip would mean 2 cars) over there and taking a risk on who we're dealing with and what the car will be like, it currently appeals more to get something sorted over here, where I can prep it and drive it for a few weeks first and hopefully get on top of the reliability, before bringing it over for the rally.

I did a European Banger rally in 2008 - Home 2 Rome where I got a Mercedes 230TE estate that had been stood for a few years for £100, fitted a new radiator (supposedly its only fault), MOT tested it and serviced it then ran it and lots of bits broke (suspension fluid pipes, brakes, exhaust, fuel tank leak etc) but once sorted it was then 100% reliable for the trip to Rome.  Some people scrapped their cars in Italy and flew home, instead we took a few days to drive up to Spa-Francorchamps F1 circuit where a friend met us having towed my race car over for me and I raced for the weekend (my first outright win in heavy rain too), the car made it back home afterwards and my brother then ran it for 3 years faultlessly and it was easy to sell once he'd finished with it.

Anyway, I digress slightly.  I haven't got a particular car in mind but over 25 year old ones (that I'd be prepared to travel long distances in) are too valuable.  Other than that, I'm happy to see what comes my way in the few months before going but if I had to go out looking for something I would aim for biggish with a big petrol engine (may as well enjoy taking advantage of cheap US fuel).  I'm sorry to say that a Triumph Acclaim wouldn't feature on my shopping list....even if there was a remote possibility of finding a cheap one that hadn't already disintegrated into a pile of rust, which I doubt.

Maybe I should look at getting someone to source and prep a local car(s) for us instead, the question is who to trust???

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

thegoose wrote:

I thought I read that the car had be no more than $500 which is what we're aiming at...

 

The $500 rule only applies to racing, not to rally.  I am sure the judges will score you better if it was a ~$500 car, but what they would really like to see is something you don't typically find in the US and is a horrible car in Europe.

See the rules:

Who made your hooptie

-50 For Japanese
-20 For German, but…
+50 For pre-’90s German diesel
+100 For Italian
+125 For French
+150 For English
+250 For Warsaw Pact

If you bring something awful enough, I am sure there are plenty of racers here who would certainly like to help you 'scrap' it and then turn it into a paperless racecar.  Personally I think the French cars are way undervalued and would dominate a rally.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

rb92673 wrote:
thegoose wrote:

I thought I read that the car had be no more than $500 which is what we're aiming at...

 

The $500 rule only applies to racing, not to rally.  I am sure the judges will score you better if it was a ~$500 car, but what they would really like to see is something you don't typically find in the US and is a horrible car in Europe.

See the rules:

Who made your hooptie

-50 For Japanese
-20 For German, but…
+50 For pre-’90s German diesel
+100 For Italian
+125 For French
+150 For English
+250 For Warsaw Pact

If you bring something awful enough, I am sure there are plenty of racers here who would certainly like to help you 'scrap' it and then turn it into a paperless racecar.  Personally I think the French cars are way undervalued and would dominate a rally.

Thanks, I don't think we'd want to spend much more anyway but useful to know there's no limit.  Odd that there's no points (+ or -) for Swedish or Korean.  Anyway, with points in mind I guess a Rover 75 would do the job,,,,and cheaper than an old XJ6/8 - just so dull though.  Maybe a Renault 25, Safrane or Vel Satis?

None of this really matters right now though - this won't be until next year.  The main thing is, it's OK to drive a UK registered car in the US so long as it's insured. :-)

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

I'd just buy a Jag over here in the US. Won't cost more than a couple grand. We drove ours in the first rally in 2016. Wife has been driving it to work every day since. Guess I picked a good one...

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

Oh, jeez, now I'm thinking of my '97 Disco for a Moscow rally. If I install the jump seats I sourced, it can seat 6!

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

Type44 wrote:

I'd just buy a Jag over here in the US. Won't cost more than a couple grand. We drove ours in the first rally in 2016. Wife has been driving it to work every day since. Guess I picked a good one...

I could buy a UK one and ship it over for (a bit) less money - the attraction is it should be fettled and reliable...and if it isn't I have no-one to blame but myself.  Getting off a plane to collect an old banger bought unseen then get in it do thousands of miles just sounds way too risky to me.  I guess if I did find a decent one it could at least be sold before we come home, it's just the risk of it not working properly, which would ruin our short trip, that concerns me.

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

thegoose wrote:

Getting off a plane to collect an old banger bought unseen then get in it do thousands of miles...

You know the judges award rally points for that sort of thing, right?

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Using a foreign registered car?

Here's another wrinkle in the North American import rules: Canada allows imports of almost anything after 15 years. So if you settle on a car that's between 15-25 years old, we can help line you up with a Canadian team that will probably scoop up any reasonably priced oddball (for N. America) car.

Or arrive and buy an old school bus, RV, church van, sketchy limo etc. What could possibly go wrong?

Low Road Racing:  Stylemaster/Mustang II/Sunbird/Spirit AMX

We will not compromise our morals and build anything but a class C car.
"You take the high road, we'll take the low."