• Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Topic: B15 Sentra Build

Hi everyone, my team is finishing out first Lemons build and we're hoping to run Halloween Hooptiefest in NH this year. I'm 95% done with the cage and before I finish weld and make things REALLY permanent I would like to ask you all for some feedback. I've read "how to not fail tech" as well as FIA Appendix J and Nasa Rallysport rules. I built the cage using FIA appendix J as a guide because it covers all the Lemons requirements and sets the car up to run hillclimbs if it survives Hooptiefest!

First question, he's some samples of my tube welding. Will this quality of work pass tech?

http://i66.tinypic.com/261zq7t.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/t8sqra.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/v2yzjd.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/2i6k2t.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/2s76ujb.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/kdvga0.jpg

  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Next question, will this rear backstay chassis tie in design pass tech? I realize it goes to a crossbar, which is specifically a no no. However i plan to plate it to the floor and tie it into the rear strut tower. I did this because the strut towers in the car are very low, small, awkwardly angled, and the floor is very oddly shaped.

http://i66.tinypic.com/23hm3br.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/34zdmbk.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/11kjb06.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/e68wsn.jpg



How about the front lateral tie in?

http://i67.tinypic.com/351wqv7.jpg

And the Main hoop?

http://i66.tinypic.com/nl3pcw.jpg

  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Lastly the bars. They are all there, plus a few extra to meet the FIA rules (FIA bars,  temple bars, sill bar etc.) Not shown is the dashbar, I'll be adding that tonight, as well as gussets. Does this Layout look acceptable? Tight enough to the body? Acceptable ingress/egress?

http://i67.tinypic.com/jghxqx.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/1zqa3c6.jpg

http://i63.tinypic.com/25qr5fl.jpg

http://i66.tinypic.com/ru4n5k.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/9lg7tf.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/2ldg39c.jpg

http://i68.tinypic.com/ivy1z7.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/2edc9sg.jpg

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: B15 Sentra Build

rear down bars will NOT pass. Doesn't matter how you plate them, they can't land on another bar and the how not to fail tech guide says that. They need to land on their own spreader plates and then you can add other bars, such as strut bars, as you wish.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
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  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Welds look good. Rear stays need to go to the floor/strut tower, not a strut bar. Your plates MAY be ok, but thats one you want Pagel to give you an OK on since each tech judge may have their own ideas.

I believe the door bars need to be connected at the X not one wrapped over the other. Otherwise looks correct overall.

Best bet is to go straight to the source and send Pagel an email. pagel@24hoursoflemons.com

He not only can tell you what will or won't pass, but can also give you proof it passes if you get a tech judge who’s not sure what they’re looking at.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
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  • chaase
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
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  • From: East Meadow, NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,555

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Guildenstern wrote:

Welds look good. Rear stays need to go to the floor/strut tower, not a strut bar. Your plates MAY be ok, but thats one you want Pagel to give you an OK on since each tech judge may have their own ideas.

I believe the door bars need to be connected at the X not one wrapped over the other. Otherwise looks correct overall.

Best bet is to go straight to the source and send Pagel an email. pagel@24hoursoflemons.com

He not only can tell you what will or won't pass, but can also give you proof it passes if you get a tech judge who’s not sure what they’re looking at.

/agree

A few problem areas that you need to address

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner
  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Is Pagel on these forums? I haven't had luck getting in touch via email.

I knew the rear stays were iffy, but the floor there is really thin and right above the gas tank. I figured my way at least tied it into the shock towers in a 3 dimensional manner. To get away from the gas tank area you either move behind the rear axel or forward way under 45*. Any ideas? The floor of this car is all sorts of crazy shapes lol.

The door x will be gusseted together. I liked the design because it keeps 2 solid bars in tension, no bisected x to crack in the HAZ at the weld joint. Plus it has a little geometry bent outwards towards the door.

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: B15 Sentra Build

The door bars should be ok if you join them at the cross. Meaning throw a weld bead between them and then gusset. Lots of people have used door bars that don't cut the second bar.

We use this style of "X", with the two welded at the meeting point.

https://i.imgur.com/MwTKe5p.jpg

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice
  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Thanks for the input everyone!

I'm debating a bottom bar across the main hoop like you've got.

I'd also like to run bars from the bottom main hoop/bottom door bar back to the strut tower to triangulate that and tie the door bars into the rear.

Trying to not let perfect be the enemy of good, driving the car is more fun than building it lol.

  • VKZ24
  • VKZ24
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  • From: Wilson, NC
  • Registered: 2009-05-20
  • Posts: 1,839

Re: B15 Sentra Build

zoomheep wrote:

I knew the rear stays were iffy, but the floor there is really thin and right above the gas tank. I figured my way at least tied it into the shock towers in a 3 dimensional manner. To get away from the gas tank area you either move behind the rear axel or forward way under 45*. Any ideas? The floor of this car is all sorts of crazy shapes lol.

Why not go to the rear wheel wells with the back stays?  That's what we've done on our last two cars.

Captain
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'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

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  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

They're kinda lumpy but that could work!

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Since you've already plated over the shock towers, why not slide the down bar over 2 inches and land it right on the place you've welded to the top of the shock tower? Then you can leave the cross brace and diagonals where they are and not build anything new.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice
  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

It's tough to see in the photos but the oval shape when you cut the tube at that angle makes it to big to weld to the plated shock tower. sad

  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: B15 Sentra Build

No most of the official Lemons people are never on the forum. He may be on vacation, try Jeff Glenn. If that fails make it Nick’s problem.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Guildenstern's Website

  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

I guess another team is building a Sentra! John thought he already got back to us but we're the other other Sentra.

Good news! Pagel approves! Plate the rear backstays to the floor and we're good to go!

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: B15 Sentra Build

Man I hope he remembers that ruling when he sees the car in person. Save that email. Nothing worse than being told to change something at tech even when it's been approved in the past.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Abandoned E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice
  • Registered: 2019-06-06
  • Posts: 9

Re: B15 Sentra Build

I had Pagel, Jay, and Jeff all in one email thread which I'm 100% saving. Worst case I replace the 4 back stays with 2 to a floor plate, I'll bring the welder and some grinders lol

How about harness bars? Me and a few guys on the team are tall, so i'm planning on one bar, bent rearwards, and attached to the main hoop to get the right belt angle. The rear back stays might not be quite wide enough to get a harness bar between them, unless I Move the 2 shoulder straps way towards the center of the seat.

  • From: Westminster MA
  • Registered: 2017-01-17
  • Posts: 92

Re: B15 Sentra Build

zoomheep wrote:

I had Pagel, Jay, and Jeff all in one email thread which I'm 100% saving. Worst case I replace the 4 back stays with 2 to a floor plate, I'll bring the welder and some grinders lol

How about harness bars? Me and a few guys on the team are tall, so i'm planning on one bar, bent rearwards, and attached to the main hoop to get the right belt angle. The rear back stays might not be quite wide enough to get a harness bar between them, unless I Move the 2 shoulder straps way towards the center of the seat.


That is definitely fine  we have an s10 done that way

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