The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Fuel Supply Questions
What does everyone do for fueling, normally race tracks charge a lot more in my experience than a gas station? and I'm assuming that our duck taped rotary engine will be needing a tank every 45 minutes. Do people just get 55G drums and fill them at a local gas station or something?
Any ideas or suggestions would be appreciated.
I just use track gas. The cost vs hassle evens out to our team’s laziness.
Depends on the track. In the south the tracks have hotpits where fueling is done without entering the paddock area. Other areas have a lot of tracks without hotpits. Then there is the reliability of the fuel pumps at the track to take into account. Some tracks you can count on the pumps, others are often broken on race days. Then there is the distance to a gas station local to the track to consider to accomplish a fuel run with jugs.
Figure out what works for you for the tracks you will most likely race and invest accordingly.
All really good info, anyone have experience at Carolina Motorsports Park or Road Atlanta?
We run a 50 gallon drum for the '47 Plymouth as it burns 8 gallons an hour and a 30 gallon "fuel buddy" for the other cars that average 4-5 gallons per hour.
There is a cheap siphon pump we use on both that actually is faster than any rotary pump.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AP … &psc=1
Just an FYI, we have had significant fuel contamination in the past buying 50 gallons of premium...to the tune of two gallons of rusty water. We are now going to pre-filter the premium our 3800 SC drinks. YMMV
We have ~ 1 days worth of 5 gallon jugs that we take out to a filling station outside the track before each day (either in the morning to get coffee too or the previous day if we aren't drinking heavily yet).
At CMP, there is a gas station right outside the track in addition to pumps at the track. it's actually possible to cut across the field to get to those pumps without ever getting on the highway. It might be frowned on but there are enough tire tracks to make me believe that they gave up trying to stop people.
RA has a station down the road a bit. I don't remember if their on site pumps worked but I do remember it being substantially more expensive than off track gas.
Road Atlanta has race gas @ prohibitive prices, we never fuel at the track (10 years and counting)
Agree, CMP and RA are hot pit tracks so we use approved 5 gallon gas jugs and fuel in the hot pits during the race. Like RobL we have a day worth of 5 gallon jugs that we fill at gas stations outside the track for both CMP and RA. The CMP track pumps are a bit sketchy and I have been at races there where they were down to one working pump or not working at all. RA pumps are on the road side of the track so if you are running at an event that uses the infield paddocks then it is a long way to the pumps. I was there for one event when the pumps were down but the track brought in a tanker and sold fuel with credit card from the tanker. Not sure what RA is going to be like when they finish the construction and upgrades.
We just have 8 Hunsaker / VP style 5 gallon jugs that we refill daily at a local gas station.
I guess I'm overestimating how much fuel we will need? I was thinking we would need 20 gallons per hour. Our tank only holds 16 gallons. Wish I knew who ran the 97 Mustang GT (4.6L V8) at the last CMP race. That engines probably on par with how fast we would go through fuel.
I guess I'm overestimating how much fuel we will need? I was thinking we would need 20 gallons per hour. Our tank only holds 16 gallons. Wish I knew who ran the 97 Mustang GT (4.6L V8) at the last CMP race. That engines probably on par with how fast we would go through fuel.
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20 gph is high even for a carbed big block. Our two ton Benz with 5.0 EFI V8 does between 4 to 8 gph depending on who's driving. My guesstimate is that with the car running OK but with a newb team, you will need to fill that car twice during each race session..
If you are running a rotory, don't you need to pre-mix to keep it from blowing up too often?
And do you count burning and unburned fuel-air mixture ejected into the exhaust manifold due to inherent fundamental design flaws with your GPH calculations?
I guess I'm overestimating how much fuel we will need? I was thinking we would need 20 gallons per hour. Our tank only holds 16 gallons. Wish I knew who ran the 97 Mustang GT (4.6L V8) at the last CMP race. That engines probably on par with how fast we would go through fuel.
20/hour is a bit much. We run a 5.0 (stock) and run ~6-7/hour (competitive B team & consistent top 10% finisher). We are friends with a thunderbird team that runs the same engine but carbed and they run a bit more ~9-11/hour.
Nice all good news then.
rb92673 we are keeping the oil injection in place but we will also pour a little two-cycle oil in the fuel. It's easy and will pour the premix in the jugs before we enter the hot pits. The ratio is a 1oz per 1gallon.
Thanks gents.
I might have missed what car you're running, but if it's a rotary, can I assume it's an Rx7? We just finished a race this weekend in our FC RX7 (1988 convertible). It's got a streetported 13b with EFI and we think we're burning 8-9GPH. Definitely NOT more than 10, even if we miscalculated. But yeah, they are really thirsty little bastards on account of the genetic defect. But we're all a little defective anyway, so it suits us.
As for handling fuel, we've got a dozen 5gal jugs (VP). We fill them AND the car when we get close to the track, do some math after Saturday and make another fuel run that night to cover Sunday. We've deleted the OMP so only run 2-cycle pre-mix at the same 1oz/gal ratio. I'm not smart enough to know for sure, but doing that AND having the OMP adding oil seems like you'll run rich, no? What's the duct-tapey aspect of your rotary, and what's it powering?
Either way, good luck.
Team Wankelr
Bilcoh thats badass, I'm actually building my 88 Turbo for Gridlife. But our Lemons car is a 2004 salvage title RX8 was actually cheaper than a lot of 1st and 2nd gens RX7's. They're so cheap non-running that I might pick up another one later this year and put an LS1 in it for time attack.
Ours was non-running one that the owner didn't know what was wrong with it. Kid sold it to us for $1000. Long story short it was the fuel pump but I took it apart and ported it out a little and cleaned it up. The housings aren't great but I think I will make it through the race and then I'll rebuild it again after. Do you guys have any video of your build or race?
We have a build video here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P … WiEKQpnr1A
Sorry for the off-topic guys.
No experience with the RX8 but I would guess you'll get 90 minutes out of a tank. 8-9GPH for a ported NA RX7 is typical so you'll do a bit worse with a turbo. The NA has the advantage of being able to lean it out which may not work so well with a turbo. I think it's a good idea to do a little premix with a Renesis as they already have issues with seal wear due to oiling. There's been a couple RX8's in Lemons so you won't be a first and I don't think you'll get hit with 500 million (actual number) penalty laps like the first one did. There's also one out there being converted to electric to go for the big money.
Cheseroo actually all RX8's are NA, but yea there def a different breed. Mazda really ditched performance for emissions and marketability, hence the suicide doors. You also can't port the RX8 engine very much as the water jackets now flow right by the ports. Honestly, I think the second-gen rx7 would be lighter and you could port it way deeper to get the same amount if not more power.
Maybe that other team did strap a turbo to the rx8? Although the high compression of 9.5-1 (High for a rotary) would not do to well. I will say this though, its a pleasure working on a newer car where every plastic connector doesn't disintegrate in your hands and every piece of rubber hasn't hardened to stone from heat cycles.
Ditto on the 5 gallon cans.
We bring about 10 - four are Sunoco/VP jugs, the rest are red lawn-mower/Jeeping cans. We top off the quicker filling cans from the mower cans and haul the empties to a local station to top off Friday and Saturday evenings.
Our driving stints are usually about 90 minutes, so we put in 10 gallons at the first and third refuel/driver change stops and top off at the second. We see how much we've been burning that day/that track, but usually just put in 10 gallons at the 4th swap. We always take 3 cans to the pit lane just in case the driver comes in and says "add all three, she's really low".
Of course, putting the car on jacks in the paddock for repairs reduces fuel burn considerably...
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