51 (edited by Troy 2020-02-20 11:22 AM)

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

Hey Guys,

This is the 10 year anniversary of the MSR race I won an IEO which has brought up stuff through Lemons and Facebook.

We finished second at MSR in June 2011 and Nov 2017, I pulled the lap data for a comparison.

                                                     2011                          2017
Fast Lap                                  01:58.1                       01:58.9
Average                                          02:07.9                       02:15.2
Laps < 2:00                                      19                                     6
Total Laps                                    379                          344
Tires                             Dunlop 205/50r15    Maxxis 245/40r15

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

Troy wrote:

Hey Guys,

This is the 10 year anniversary of the MSR race I won an IEO which has brought up stuff through Lemons and Facebook.

We finished second at MSR in June 2011 and Nov 2017, I pulled the lap data for a comparison.

                                                     2011                          2017
Fast Lap                                  01:58.1                       01:58.9
Average                                          02:07.9                       02:15.2
Laps < 2:00                                      19                                     6
Total Laps                                    379                          344
Tires                             Dunlop 205/50r15    Maxxis 245/40r15

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing

Troy, did your data headers get swapped?  When I look at the raw versus sorted tabs it appears they switched.

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

I forgot about that booboo and corrected it.
2011 was a longer race then 2017

Hardrvin wrote:
Troy wrote:

Hey Guys,

This is the 10 year anniversary of the MSR race I won an IEO which has brought up stuff through Lemons and Facebook.

We finished second at MSR in June 2011 and Nov 2017, I pulled the lap data for a comparison.

                                                     2011                          2017
Fast Lap                                  01:58.1                       01:58.9
Average                                          02:07.9                       02:15.2
Laps < 2:00                                      19                                     6
Total Laps                                    379                          344
Tires                             Dunlop 205/50r15    Maxxis 245/40r15

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ … sp=sharing

Troy, did your data headers get swapped?  When I look at the raw versus sorted tabs it appears they switched.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

Hardrvin wrote:

Majority of that has little to do with speed creep; sounds more like a personal attack directed at pretty specific teams.

I can see validity in that speed creep can create more dangerous conditions for drivers less prepared.

Or is your primary point that Lemons overall direction should be 1: entertainment 2: camaraderie and 3. racing?

The attack was on you for resurrecting a thread to tell us who you do or don't want to “hear from” as if you have some say in the matter.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL)
88 Thunderbird "THUNDERBIRDS ARE GO!", Ex Astris, Rubigo / Semper Fracti
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)
2018 Route Sucky-Suck Rally Miata, 2019 World Tour Of Texas 64 Newport

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

We got 14 penalty laps at Barber.  Plus we were in turn 3 when they started the race.  So basically 15 laps.   We finished 6th and 11 laps out of the lead (we had two times off track - one for a self inflicted spin by our guest and one for a possible tire issue - cost us 7 laps).   Due to the rain and huge amount of full course cautions on Saturday we did one pit stop on Saturday trying to catch up.  So even if we ran our perfect race we couldn’t over come that penalty.  That’s the third race we have not received a win for doing the most laps due to penalty laps (so the penalty laps matter).   I had the fourth fastest lap of the race, and that was with a fairly open track.  There were at least 10 cars in the Barber race that should put down faster lap times than we did.  The TMMI Camry winning car put down a faster time than we did by a few tenths.  I never had a chance to look at it, but it seemed planted. 

I will say it was the fastest Lemons race I’ve been to.

The Lincoln is a rocket ship, but they must have a very wide disparity in driver talent as many times it was slow.

There was a E36 M3 that was competing for the overall win that looked like an HPDE car. 

There was another E36 M3 that also looked like a nice WRL car, but I think the guy was driving solo. 

The RSX is fast and mostly well driven, but unreliable it seems. 

The AMX Z3 is also well driven and fast, but it had some ECU issue. 

The Ginger conglomerate had a few fast cars also.  I forget which was which. 

The TaTa’s are the same old TaTa’s.  Unfortunately they broke.  They used to be the fastest car.   They are now not the fastest car.

I would argue speed creep is probably real, but penalty is based more on team/driver history than the car.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

Ginger did well, the white E36 in the front was theirs. One or two of their 5-series were in the top 10 too.

I did not drive at Barber this year due to my car's retirement. The Tetanus E30 managed to finish in the top 10 but it was hard. We had a clean race but ran over a pipe/exhaust on the track causing a long pit inspection to make sure nothing was damaged.

As far as my old Z goes, we usually finish in the front of the pack but we have to run a really clean race. We don't have much margin for error.

Lap times are only part of the equation: penalties, break downs and poor pit stops all add up. Sometimes there is just bad luck too like being a few hundred feet from a pass for position when a double yellow gets thrown and the car between you and your target decides to go in hoover round mode.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

Yeah.  Forgot about you guys in the Tetanus E30.  That car was doing fairly well.  I have watched a lot of you guys on YouTube and the audio is often entertaining.   LOL.  We had camera issues this race so the video is minimal, which is a bummer.  There was some fun racing out there.

LemonAid - Changing kids lives one lap at a time.

Re: Limiting Speed Creep - Formalizing Penalty Laps?

Hardrvin wrote:
Guildenstern wrote:

What about the numbnutz who try to be as fast as the top of the pack and just end up crashing other drivers out because they don't know how to drive a fast car, but bought one anyways because that's how you "win Lemons" and/or "That's how other racing brand the car was built for races."?

Can you hear from the people who are victims of them?

What about the Joyless Paddock hogs who never participate in the evening, eat up all the space around their paddock, hide their car overnight while they eff off to the hotel before sunset, generally fowl either the hot pit or the paddock lanes with a miss parked car and 5 or 6 people trying to stumblebum their way through a quick driver change, And clog up the airways with constant jibber like a NASCAR spotter (some times with a garbage chinese radio leaking signal all over the channel band) all so they can still end up in the lower half of the top ten behind a Class B car, or again crash out and take collateral damage with them?

Can you hear from the people who have to park next to them all weekend?

I just want to know what we are or aren't allowed to say in your presence about this.

Majority of that has little to do with speed creep; sounds more like a personal attack directed at pretty specific teams.

I can see validity in that speed creep can create more dangerous conditions for drivers less prepared.

Or is your primary point that Lemons overall direction should be 1: entertainment 2: camaraderie and 3. racing?

racing in both I'd say you are correct and the other league is the other way around.. not bashing either just stating fact.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"