• Mr.Yuck
  • Mr.Yuck
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  • From: Brookeville, Md.
  • Registered: 2013-12-09
  • Posts: 1,012

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

I was seriously asking: opinions on the BMW I6? Or is that often swapped out for something else?

the wiring and computers would be a nightmare.

Sooo, the cache of BMW power isn't worth the aggravation... Thanks! That's clear enough to me!


so you see a lot of swapped BMW's in Lemons? Meaning a mazda with a BMW mill? or a Furd?  I have an E39 540i sport w/ a 6 speed... it's computers have computers. Unless you know all that backwards and forwards you'll get a giant headache. It isn't like a single wire LS engine (GM not Lexus)

"get up and get your grandma outta here"
  • From: Sacramento, California
  • Registered: 2012-08-02
  • Posts: 354

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

There are two I know of, a Volvo and a Corvette with a BMW I6 swap in the west.

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

http://www.roadkill.com/lemons-forget-l … ine-z-car/
I do LOVE this story ...

And i do have a few SAAB engines lying around...  The B234R are tough as hell. and are still inside the SAAB 95 that litter the PickApart here.
and crank out 260HP stock.
But! They are Iron blocks

So there are Ecotec racers out there?

The SAAB 93 runs a turbo version of the Ecotec 2.0
and Junkyards are overflowing with those..

People are having good luck with Ecotecs?

  • Registered: 2013-11-15
  • Posts: 670

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

billstewartx wrote:

http://www.roadkill.com/lemons-forget-l … ine-z-car/
I do LOVE this story ...

And i do have a few SAAB engines lying around...  The B234R are tough as hell. and are still inside the SAAB 95 that litter the PickApart here.
and crank out 260HP stock.
But! They are Iron blocks

So there are Ecotec racers out there?

The SAAB 93 runs a turbo version of the Ecotec 2.0
and Junkyards are overflowing with those..

People are having good luck with Ecotecs?

Ask the Occupy Pit Lane guys about Ecotecs.  They seem to keep putting them in their Miatas and now a 280z.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon
  • From: St Louis
  • Registered: 2011-10-20
  • Posts: 2,611

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

rb92673 wrote:
billstewartx wrote:

http://www.roadkill.com/lemons-forget-l … ine-z-car/
I do LOVE this story ...

And i do have a few SAAB engines lying around...  The B234R are tough as hell. and are still inside the SAAB 95 that litter the PickApart here.
and crank out 260HP stock.
But! They are Iron blocks

So there are Ecotec racers out there?

The SAAB 93 runs a turbo version of the Ecotec 2.0
and Junkyards are overflowing with those..

People are having good luck with Ecotecs?

Ask the Occupy Pit Lane guys about Ecotecs.  They seem to keep putting them in their Miatas and now a 280z.

I've run a L61 and LE5 Ecotec in my 78 Celica for the past few years, the LE5 makes good HP and is very common in junkyards. Our LE5 ran about 15 races with oil changes only including a class A win and 3 top fives in 2019. Same engine is now going into the 280zx. The Ecotec Miata experience has been variable mostly due to the addition of boost but when it's going its as fats as anything on the west coast.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Brett85p's Website

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

The DURATEC V-6  you mentioned seems interesting too
Ford and Jag versions are available to junkyard shoppers here in DC .

Anybody running those?

reliable?

twin turbo option available???

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Brett85p wrote:
rb92673 wrote:
billstewartx wrote:

http://www.roadkill.com/lemons-forget-l … ine-z-car/
I do LOVE this story ...

People are having good luck with Ecotecs?

Ask the Occupy Pit Lane guys about Ecotecs.  They seem to keep putting them in their Miatas and now a 280z.

I've run a L61 and LE5 Ecotec in my 78 Celica for the past few years, the LE5 makes good HP and is very common in junkyards. Our LE5 ran about 15 races with oil changes only including a class A win and 3 top fives in 2019. Same engine is now going into the 280zx. The Ecotec Miata experience has been variable mostly due to the addition of boost but when it's going its as fats as anything on the west coast.

What transmission are you running behind the ecotec?  A Solstice manual tranny?  or some version of a Chevy Colorado or a Jeep gearbox?

  • From: St Louis
  • Registered: 2011-10-20
  • Posts: 2,611

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

billstewartx wrote:
Brett85p wrote:
rb92673 wrote:

Ask the Occupy Pit Lane guys about Ecotecs.  They seem to keep putting them in their Miatas and now a 280z.

I've run a L61 and LE5 Ecotec in my 78 Celica for the past few years, the LE5 makes good HP and is very common in junkyards. Our LE5 ran about 15 races with oil changes only including a class A win and 3 top fives in 2019. Same engine is now going into the 280zx. The Ecotec Miata experience has been variable mostly due to the addition of boost but when it's going its as fats as anything on the west coast.

What transmission are you running behind the ecotec?  A Solstice manual tranny?  or some version of a Chevy Colorado or a Jeep gearbox?

AR5 Colorado with solstice bell housing.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Brett85p's Website

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Brett85p wrote:
billstewartx wrote:
Brett85p wrote:

I've run a L61 and LE5 Ecotec in my 78 Celica for the past few years, the LE5 makes good HP and is very common in junkyards. Our LE5 ran about 15 races with oil changes only including a class A win and 3 top fives in 2019. Same engine is now going into the 280zx. The Ecotec Miata experience has been variable mostly due to the addition of boost but when it's going its as fats as anything on the west coast.

What transmission are you running behind the ecotec?  A Solstice manual tranny?  or some version of a Chevy Colorado or a Jeep gearbox?

AR5 Colorado with solstice bell housing.

Thanks man!! You rock-

  • X-args
  • X-args
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  • From: East Bay, CA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 735

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

I am in the middle of year 2 of the LZ9 swap in the Volvo 544: I am a fan of the GM 60* V6.
The 3.1 in the Cavalier '07-10, '13-20 has about 500hrs on it now, still going strong.

The LZ9 (2006-2010, Monte Carlo/Impala/Malibu/Uplander) is 350lb of 3.9 liter power: 240HP/240FT LB, more than 200 ft lb from 1800RPM-5200RPM, variable cam timing.

Don't get the LZG/LZ8 DOD(displacement on demand) version. I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore). The best part is that they are $350-600 all day and they made something like 500000 of the 3.5/3.9s from '06-'10.

FWD, bolt it up to a Muncie/Getrag 282 ('86-'94) or a Getrag F23 (a couple years of later Cavalier) Get the halfshaft extension for equal length.
RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
2/25/24
  • From: St Louis
  • Registered: 2011-10-20
  • Posts: 2,611

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

X-args wrote:

I am in the middle of year 2 of the LZ9 swap in the Volvo 544: I am a fan of the GM 60* V6.
The 3.1 in the Cavalier '07-10, '13-20 has about 500hrs on it now, still going strong.

The LZ9 (2006-2010, Monte Carlo/Impala/Malibu/Uplander) is 350lb of 3.9 liter power: 240HP/240FT LB, more than 200 ft lb from 1800RPM-5200RPM, variable cam timing.

Don't get the LZG/LZ8 DOD(displacement on demand) version. I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore). The best part is that they are $350-600 all day and they made something like 500000 of the 3.5/3.9s from '06-'10.

FWD, bolt it up to a Muncie/Getrag 282 ('86-'94) or a Getrag F23 (a couple years of later Cavalier) Get the halfshaft extension for equal length.
RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

What shape is the oilpan? Are there different factory options? I have had to get an Ecotec pan cut and welded to avoid the steering rack in the 280 ZX as the FWD options tend not to have traditional RWD front or back clearances.
A V6 would fit nicely in there if I could avoid the rack.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Brett85p's Website

  • X-args
  • X-args
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  • From: East Bay, CA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
  • Posts: 735

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Brett85p wrote:
X-args wrote:

I am in the middle of year 2 of the LZ9 swap in the Volvo 544: I am a fan of the GM 60* V6.
The 3.1 in the Cavalier '07-10, '13-20 has about 500hrs on it now, still going strong.

The LZ9 (2006-2010, Monte Carlo/Impala/Malibu/Uplander) is 350lb of 3.9 liter power: 240HP/240FT LB, more than 200 ft lb from 1800RPM-5200RPM, variable cam timing.

Don't get the LZG/LZ8 DOD(displacement on demand) version. I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore). The best part is that they are $350-600 all day and they made something like 500000 of the 3.5/3.9s from '06-'10.

FWD, bolt it up to a Muncie/Getrag 282 ('86-'94) or a Getrag F23 (a couple years of later Cavalier) Get the halfshaft extension for equal length.
RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

What shape is the oilpan? Are there different factory options? I have had to get an Ecotec pan cut and welded to avoid the steering rack in the 280 ZX as the FWD options tend not to have traditional RWD front or back clearances.
A V6 would fit nicely in there if I could avoid the rack.

The oil pan is an alloy casting for block rigidity - it's a FWD application that ends up rear sump in longitudinal mode. I don't think there are any variations. The 'cut' is about 6 inches from the front of the motor.

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
2/25/24
  • From: Raleigh, NC
  • Registered: 2019-10-28
  • Posts: 93

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

X-args wrote:
Brett85p wrote:
X-args wrote:

I am in the middle of year 2 of the LZ9 swap in the Volvo 544: I am a fan of the GM 60* V6.
The 3.1 in the Cavalier '07-10, '13-20 has about 500hrs on it now, still going strong.

The LZ9 (2006-2010, Monte Carlo/Impala/Malibu/Uplander) is 350lb of 3.9 liter power: 240HP/240FT LB, more than 200 ft lb from 1800RPM-5200RPM, variable cam timing.

Don't get the LZG/LZ8 DOD(displacement on demand) version. I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore). The best part is that they are $350-600 all day and they made something like 500000 of the 3.5/3.9s from '06-'10.

FWD, bolt it up to a Muncie/Getrag 282 ('86-'94) or a Getrag F23 (a couple years of later Cavalier) Get the halfshaft extension for equal length.
RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

What shape is the oilpan? Are there different factory options? I have had to get an Ecotec pan cut and welded to avoid the steering rack in the 280 ZX as the FWD options tend not to have traditional RWD front or back clearances.
A V6 would fit nicely in there if I could avoid the rack.

The oil pan is an alloy casting for block rigidity - it's a FWD application that ends up rear sump in longitudinal mode. I don't think there are any variations. The 'cut' is about 6 inches from the front of the motor.

A regular RWD application should be doable, I know 3rd and 4th gen Camaro owners have been swapping their 2.8, 3.1, and 3.4 V6s for the much better 3400, 3500, and 3900 engines.  So, there is precedent for them working in at least some RWD applications.  F-body people have it easy, they're working with a vehicle that already came with a 60degree V6, and in a much wider car, but who knows, you may get lucky too.  Oil pans from other 60degree engines may work, but there were some differences in block over the years, especially depending on application, so, proceed with caution.

Semi-Sentient Centenarians
1996 Buick Century - we upgraded our crappy GM sedan with parts from a crappy GM minivan.
"It's got a van motor, a 220 cubic inch plant, it's got van tires, van suspension, van shocks. It's a model with the catalytic converters ripped out so
     it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it a racecar or what?" - Blues Brothers, Probably
  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

X-args wrote:

I I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore).

RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

This brings up a good point! 
SOFTWARE!
So you are using the original fuel injection, ECU, etc. And are burning a new firmware to get rid of security, BCM, etc.  so the firmware only is working the engine.
What setup are you using to do this?

I have been messing with the TRIONIC 5 from old SAABS.  Which has been hacked to do what you are doing. (T5 Suite)
BUT. It would be much more useful to have  a GM or FORD or Toyota, etc system, something in all the junkyards and dirt cheap.

Something that can be plugged into most setups, and run the engine.

Maybe i should start a new thread, just on this subject
"best  hacked fuel system to run in  a swap"

  • From: St Louis
  • Registered: 2011-10-20
  • Posts: 2,611

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

billstewartx wrote:
X-args wrote:

I I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore).

RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

This brings up a good point! 
SOFTWARE!
So you are using the original fuel injection, ECU, etc. And are burning a new firmware to get rid of security, BCM, etc.  so the firmware only is working the engine.
What setup are you using to do this?

I have been messing with the TRIONIC 5 from old SAABS.  Which has been hacked to do what you are doing. (T5 Suite)
BUT. It would be much more useful to have  a GM or FORD or Toyota, etc system, something in all the junkyards and dirt cheap.

Something that can be plugged into most setups, and run the engine.

Maybe i should start a new thread, just on this subject
"best  hacked fuel system to run in  a swap"

HP Tuners supports many including the Ecotec, it costs a bit but is quite easy to alter and lots of tunes available to share.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Brett85p's Website

41 Reply by coolhand454 (edited by coolhand454 2020-03-19 12:50 PM)

  • From: South Side Of Chicago
  • Registered: 2010-11-29
  • Posts: 618

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

VQ35DE would be my choice.  They are plentful.  G35 RWD and AWD (Change the oil pan to a RWD). AWD engines are cheaper than RWD ones. It takes a beating. We killed two. One out of stupidity (janky fan setup killed the radiator) and the other was a pre abused junkyard motor. Run it without a thermostat. Create a restrictor plate.

Only tip is to add a oil cooler. The oil temps run high during track duty.

Getting a complete manual drivetrain with the ecu and wiring can be hard. You can piece it together easily. You can get the harness and ECU at u pulls. Transmissions can be found fairly easy.

The downside is the ECU reprogramming. The security system is part the ECU and it needs to be reflashed. Their is a company that handles the reprogram and wiring.

Byte Marks Racing - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred."
1992 Nissan 240SX DM Edition (Drift Master)

coolhand454's Website

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Okay!
so we have nominated

Ecotec 4 LE5
Saturn 4 
Redblock Volvo

nissan V-6 VQ35DE
LZ9 GM V-6
Honda J series V-6
Duratec Ford V-6
Alfa V-6 Unobtainium

Ford 4.6L V-8 iron block
ford 5.0L
Lexus 1UZ V-8

Anybody else want to chime in?

Thanks for all your comments! Very useful, i must say.
bill

  • Registered: 2011-10-14
  • Posts: 4,167

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Buick 3800 I thought I mentioned but if not...problem is finding good transmissions for it but engine for us in two different platforms and two vastly different power levels has been stupid robust and reliable.

  • From: WPB Fl.
  • Registered: 2010-10-27
  • Posts: 1,571

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Nissan/Infiniti VG30DE is the robust, heavy one, VQ35 is lightweight, powerful and much mor blow uppidity

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45 Reply by X-args (edited by X-args 2020-04-02 01:22 AM)

  • X-args
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  • May Have Raced Your Car
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  • From: East Bay, CA
  • Registered: 2009-05-01
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Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

billstewartx wrote:
X-args wrote:

I I have the software to burn a standalone PCM that uses Trailblazer code to take out the Body Control Module and security stuff, as well as triggering the starter correctly. This will also work with the LZ4 3.5 (same 99mm bore).

RWD, bolt it up to an AX15 out of an '89-'96 Dodge Dakota or similar year 2wd Jeep Cherokee that originally had the 2.5 AMC motor.

This brings up a good point! 
SOFTWARE!
So you are using the original fuel injection, ECU, etc. And are burning a new firmware to get rid of security, BCM, etc.  so the firmware only is working the engine.
What setup are you using to do this?

HPTuners for the flashing, but the actual calibration was done by a GM Powertrain engineer with access to all the code. He figured out that there was one E67 PCM application that had a non-BCM controlled starter signal and added it to the LZ9. He hasn't worked for GM for at least 10 years now.
I've tweaked the calibration a fair bit with HPTuners (the stock cal has some odd cam timing/lots of advance tuning at cruise to simulate a smaller engine) but the basic software build was done in Michigan in-house.

2x Volvo PV544 (RIP '63) B20 power!
2007/2012/2013 Driver's Championship (what was I thinking!?) 142 races and counting.
2/25/24
  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Okay cool

So we have 2 votes for HPTuners. For an Ecotec and a V-6.  Interesting. and expensive!

Are there any options for broke-ass tech?  Like a free hacked version of something? or Open Source? 

$500 for the license and 2 Credits ( another $100 per car) is a bite on the ass. I just paid $240 for a V-12 BMW. from LKQ pick-a-part.
I can get 24 cylinders of raw throbbing power for the same price as a piece of software...

I am open to suggestions!

Thanks X-args and Brett85p !

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XK477 … 9N7Ey6DI8m

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XK477EhkwcRghfXG8gcKT39N7Ey6DI8m

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

Late to the party. Just sharing experience with the saab engine. The B235R seems to be damn bulletproof, even the later T7 versions. We have beat the absolute crap out of ours and it's fine. The original motor had 254k miles on it before being converted to a race car and the only reason we pulled it after 8 or so races was we finally wore out some of the hydraulic lifters and blew out the exhaust manifold gasket. The replacement had over 200k miles and is going strong after a couple races. I have the original sitting waiting for new lifters and gaskets whenever I get time.

Only comment is they are thirsty beasts. In our 9-5 I can drain the 22gallon cell in 2.5 hours, which works out to over 8 gallons/hour. I'm not sure what you'd do for engine management in a swap. Been starting to wonder that as well, not sure if it's possible to convert a T7 engine to something close to standalone.

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  • From: Lyndeborough, NH
  • Registered: 2011-05-22
  • Posts: 843

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

something something saabkur something something...need to get that POS going again.

fiasco's Website

  • Registered: 2019-07-14
  • Posts: 222

Re: Most Reliable Engine for swapping

TheEngineer wrote:

Late to the party. Just sharing experience with the saab engine. The B235R seems to be damn bulletproof, even the later T7 versions.   . Been starting to wonder that as well, not sure if it's possible to convert a T7 engine to something close to standalone.

I like that. I like that a LOT

You can put the T5 or T7 onto any old saab engine.
https://www.saablink.net/forum/general- … 3456-3.htm

And can take the SAAB engine out, and drop somewhere else, if you put one of the TRIONICTUNING  "open tunes" onto it-- The "open tuning"  disables the anti theft stupidity. So you do not have to hook those theft units to your new machine.

Also, the T7 has the GM "metric" bellhousing pattern,
so many many GM trannys fit onto it.