Topic: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

Hi - we just finished fabricating the main hoop feet for our 1993 300ZX 2+2. Building the boxes went well, welded together on the inside and laid out the dimes. Sides are 3/16 steel and the top is 1/8 steel that came with the cage kit.

Installing in the car was waaaay harder. I've attached a link to a you tube vid of the work. It aint pretty, but good penetration. But we had gaps and welded over welds and also have some thin steel in the car laid over thicker steel that had some burn, so we had to weld over that. Circled that up so it was thick and solid. But ugly. You'll see some factory screw holes near the inner sides of the boxes, didn't weld up those. Should we?

Before we go further, installing the main hoop we want to see if this is good to go. Adult supervision requested! Please take a look at the vid and let us know your guidance.

Sent this to Lemon tech person also but want to get some input.

Video on Youtube here: March 14, 2020  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cgUQ5dPfOM

   
March 14, 2020
300zx Lemons roll cage review

Thanks folks!

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

The spreader plates per the rules are supposed to be welded directly onto a sturdy part of the car.  If I understand you correctly, you made the box from the spreader plate.  If so, you might have an issue right there.  Remember that every time you double the thickness you make it 4 times the strength. IF I were to ever build plinth boxes to mount a cage I would use metal thicker than 1.25".   I have seen better welds.....  If it were mine, I would cut out the tops of those boxes, and then one edge at a time I would cut/grind those welds out and have someone that can weld better re-do them.

BTW: Where are you located skippy??  There might be someone near you that can lend a hand.


Bill

2020 I.O.E. CT #36 The Rootes Of All Evil,1958 Sunbeam Rapier Convertible (YES 1958!!) & 2019 Judges Choice NJMP
2016 Thompson Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

I think you have the order of operations wrong.

The point of plinth boxes is so you can weld the top of the cage, then raise it up to the roof of the car. If you install the plinths first, then you still can't get at the top of the cage.

Also, there is evidence of grinder near and/or on those welds. That, i believe to be a no-go at the cage inspection station.

That guy

4 (edited by benspeeder 2020-03-14 08:09 PM)

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

We're in Boonton NJ, and if anybody is close we could sure use a hand. John Pagel gave a "barely acceptable" and I want to give our best to clean it up some. He said that we ought to have used 3/16 on the top plate and the welds look cold. Had problems with minor burn on the car so turned down the wire speed and volts, probably too much.

We added the boxes because the main hoop from the cage kit was about an inch off the roof and we wanted to raise it up as much as possible, got a 6'2 driver. The surface was angled and putting a flat plate on the car wouldn't have been flush and would have left a big gap between the hoop and roof. At least the boxes are perfectly level.

Asked John if we should grinnd down the top plate flat and weld the 3/16 on it for thickness.

Also considering cutting it all out and paying a pro, but dammit, we want to give it a go! Spent the full day on this, but if ripping it out is what we should do, we will.

Ps-yes there was some grinding.

All ears for suggestions how to improve this and thanks!

5 (edited by benspeeder 2020-03-15 06:12 AM)

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

Some pics of the disaster of my making. Thinking this needs to be taken to a pro to fix. Anybody know of a shop in northern NJ we can bring the car to?

Or, can this be fixed by us rookies? Grind all this shit off and try again?

I think this is the poster child for how to not do it sad

https://www.flickr.com/photos/8969987@N … ed-public/

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Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

Given this is the main hoop, it would not be acceptable in my opinion.   These plates are easier than welding the bars, so looks like you need some help to avoid doubling the DIY cost.
I'd be looking for an existing caged car instead needing a new motor, etc.

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

In my experience, welding spreader plates (or boxes) to the chassis is the trickiest welding involved in cage construction.  The fitment on the cage should be tight and heavier gauge material is more forgiving with less potential for burn-though, but it’s not an easy thing to weld 1/8” plate to the tin foil that cars are made out of.

Tri-Lamb Motorsports ‘87 528e

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

Disclaimer: I'm just some guy on the internet. No affiliation with any organization or certification of competence available. Your mileage may vary. Not to be listened to, all advice worth what you pay for.

First, did you put a bottom on the plinth box that matches the contour of the car? If not, then you have a cookie cutter on the bottom of the main hoop and you will likely have to cut it out and do it again.

Second, the order you do the welds affects the amount of annoyance later (but it does vary depending on the car and cage style). The main consideration is the method to get at the top of the cage to weld the joints that are too near the roof to reach. Some will say to cut holes in the roof, which is a method, but depending on where your joints land might not be optimal (say there is some of the stock roll structure in the way or something).

Third, it's usually better to tack everything in place first to check fitment, then disassemble the parts that are in the way of welding the difficult parts and strategize how to get at the hard to reach parts.

Burn through is a heat management problem. Slow down. Don't try to weld the whole thing at once.

I assume you bought a pre-bent cage kit, and it looks like there is a lot of slope to the floor there. Are you sure you sited the hoop at the location intended by the company that bent the tube?

That guy

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

The two things you don't want to be building and learning how to weld at the same time is building a roll cage and building a aero plane! Doing it wrong can kill you! Find someone who knows how to weld.

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

Thanks. Got some solid advice via email directly from some Lemons guys who build cages. We'll give it another go. If its not safe, we take it to a pro.

Today was some good progress. Looks better, safer. Will post up the new and improved in a few days and we've got a certified welder coming to lend a hand.

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

jimbbski wrote:

The two things you don't want to be building and learning how to weld at the same time is building a roll cage and building a aero plane! Doing it wrong can kill you! Find someone who knows how to weld.

Yeah, like I never thought of that....(rolling eyes)

Re: Welding in the main hoop feet-this OK or do we totally suck?

I send you an email via the forum. I'm super close to you and can help.