Topic: What is a really good tech bribe?

As you guessed I'm green as it gets.  I have a '92 Firebird with a 305 and an automatic.  I want to put in a 350 and a t5, both of which were stock options.  My goal was to take a 350 (or the stock 305 if need be) and make it old fashioned, no electronics.  Carb, distributor, spark plugs, stick shift, manual fuel pump, mechanical slip diff, no lights, no wipers, no abs, no vacuum brakes, no power steering, no ac.  Reliable and easy to fix and diagnose. 

However, doing almost all the work myself it'll cost several grand in parts.  Because they were stock parts would it get less harassment than a true upgrade?  If not, what kind of bribe level are we talking here?

Thanks all.  I love this community, so willing to help out and give advise.  See some of you at Pittrace next year.

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

What you really mean is a BS inspection bribe. It really depends on who is judging that race. Each judge has their favorites. That being said, my recommendation is to run the car with the existing drive train. Spend your time and effort getting the car done correctly and passing tech. Once you have a race or two under your belt (or it blows up) start working on the upgrades.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

As chaase indicated, the tech inspectors can't be bribed, as they're making sure the car complies with the safety rules. On the other hand, the BS judges, who decide whether a car is class A, B, or C and whether it receives penalty laps, normally can be bribed. Under COVID conditions, however, no bribes are allowed. Anyone hoping for BS sympathy is instead encouraged to donate to one of the officially affiliated charities, usually Lemons of Love and/or Alex's Lemonade Stand depending on the race.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Yep you guys knew exactly what I was after.  Would never try and sneak past tech.  But BS?  That's the goal.

5 (edited by bobnowoc 2020-08-11 07:05 PM)

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Yeah.

As a rookie team and as the 1st time team captian,
My advice is the same.

There are 2 inspections.
Tech is pass/fail.  You must follow the rules on how to safely build a race car. 
If you fail, they send you to the garage to repair a.s.a.p and tech it again.  This is salety inspection.  Read the rules.
Print the rules.
Re read the rules.
Make all the teammates read the rules .
Read "quick guide on how not to fail Lemons tech"


2.  Do not do all the engine and suspension swap and upgrades unles you already have a dead engine.   You are a rookie.  Run what you got at least 1 time if you think it will last 14 hours.

3. B.S. inspection is 2 seperate tests.
The first test is to class the car.
Class A- cars that might possibly win
Class B - cars that might possibly finish
Class C - cars that might possibly have got lost on the way to the junkyard and ended up in a race

B.S. inspection also decides if you spent over $500 on the build of the car.  (Tires, brakes, cage, seat, any safety gear, driver comfort,  fire suppression are not counted in the $500 total)
Car body, engine, suspension components and transmission are counted in the $500 test.  You are usually given 1 peanalty lap for every $10 the judge guesses you spent over the $500 limit.
Judges are very strict on class A cars and tend to look the other way on class C cars

Bribes and gifts to the BS judge have been discontinued for covid 19.   Instead, You can give cash to the charities mentioned if you feel upset with class or peanalty laps.
Their booth is right near the BS judge table.


(WARNNG!  You are about to spend between $3000 and $8000 to race your $500 car)


(P.s. This is my first time.  Fact check this post)


Hello again dharmouth! Another great question!

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

bobnowoc wrote:

Yeah.

As a rookie team and as the 1st time team captian,
My advice is the same.

There are 2 inspections.
Tech is pass/fail.  You must follow the rules on how to safely build a race car. 
If you fail, they send you to the garage to repair a.s.a.p and tech it again.  This is salety inspection.  Read the rules.
Print the rules.
Re read the rules.
Make all the teammates read the rules .
Read "quick guide on how not to fail Lemons tech"


2.  Do not do all the engine and suspension swap and upgrades unles you already have a dead engine.   You are a rookie.  Run what you got at least 1 time if you think it will last 14 hours.

3. B.S. inspection is 2 seperate tests.
The first test is to class the car.
Class A- cars that might possibly win
Class B - cars that might possibly finish
Class C - cars that might possibly have got lost on the way to the junkyard and ended up in a race

B.S. inspection also decides if you spent over $500 on the build of the car.  (Tires, brakes, cage, seat, any safety gear, driver comfort,  fire suppression are not counted in the $500 total)
Car body, engine, suspension components and transmission are counted in the $500 test.  You are usually given 1 peanalty lap for every $10 the judge guesses you spent over the $500 limit.
Judges are very strict on class A cars and tend to look the other way on class C cars

Bribes and gifts to the BS judge have been discontinued for covid 19.   Instead, You can give cash to the charities mentioned if you feel upset with class or peanalty laps.
Their booth is right near the BS judge table.


(WARNNG!  You are about to spend between $3000 and $8000 to race your $500 car)


(P.s. This is my first time.  Fact check this post)


Hello again dharmouth! Another great question!

Hi again Bob,

Please call me Don. The safety gear is rather expensive but I knew that going in. By the time you get all the safety equipment both personal and for the car it'll cost more than my daily driver but it's about the memories along the way. Charities I knew could be used to offset a black flag but I didn't know about the change in bribes for covid. If this is a permininent changes I'll be on the lookout. I have some time so I'll ride my couch and surf Craigslist and maybe I'll find what I'm looking for as a car or in parts. Read the rules at least 3 times and have everything printed for me and my team plus extra copies.

I don't mind working on cars. It's something I've always enjoyed. I could chance the 305 but the kit plus carb plus distributor is $1500. Might as well get the swap. Even crates aren't that expensive but I'm sure that'll set off the "$500 my ass" because it'll be a shiny new reliable runner. I argue putting in stock options isn't an upgrade but if the car had them it would have cost more. I'm pretty sure it would get penalty laps but how many could be a big swing. If you had to wager a guess a ballpark range would be nice if I put in used strictly stock stuff and if I bought new.

Thank you again! I do look forward to seeing an event and participating if I have the time.

Best,
Don Harmuth

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Don,  i think you are 100% on the right path.

I love reading your posts.

Hope to see pics of your build soon.


P.s.  i am not a car guy, so the engine parts stuff is greek to me, but i obsess over safety and the rules.  Thats why i reply to your posts

Also, i love being proven wrong, because then i can be right tomorrow

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

I can not give you an opinion on the opinion of a b.s. judge.

I don't have any experience to even guess.

I am sorry

Former Captain
1996 Crown Vic. #55
Team Racing Cosmo

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

From what wikipedia tells me, the 305ci in a gen-3 Firebird with an autobox is either an L03 (throttle body injection) 5.0 making 170bhp or an LB9 (port fuel injection) 5.0 making 195bhp.

Old school V8s and their parts cost more because of nostalgic boomers and dragstrip hotrodders.

You can get the same power out of a 2.2 or 2.4L GM Ecotec, which should cost less from a breakers yard, have readily available parts,weigh less and you'll have an engine that's 10-15 years old instead of 30. You'll also have half as many spark plugs, head gaskets etc, and a buttload more space in the engine bay to swing a wrench. Fuel economy will probably be better too, which is important in endurance racing.

A Firebird with an Ecotec is more likely to amuse the BS judges than anything you can do with a bunch of winga-dinga pushrods.

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Out here on the left coast,we run The Ugly Brown Camero (Google it)(make sure you spell it right...)
It is an '82 Chebby with the 305 and the automatic and we get Class B,all day,every day.....
The only upgrade we have is big ol' Corvette brakes all around...but in a field of 150+ cars,we need good brakes..

https://twitter.com/24hoursoflemons/sta … 50?lang=en

Like someone else here has said,run it as is,at least for your first race or two..

Nothing,I repeat nothing,sucks as much as going to your first race and spending the weekend wrenching
This is a quick way to lose money and potentially teammates/friends ....
This is just my opinion, YMMV, offer void in Nebraska....

45+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Don't stress.  I would bet big money that a '92 Firebird with factory engine and trans (even if not original), and downgraded to a carb will sail through BS inspection without a second look, and certainly with no penalty laps. Only issue would be if they attract attention because they are so new, chromed, and shiny that they look like they just fell out of the Summit catalog.

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

I posted the below in response to your other posting a few minutes ago:

"Don't stress.  I would bet big money that a '92 Firebird with factory engine and trans (even if not original), and downgraded to a carb will sail through BS inspection without a second look, and certainly with no penalty laps. Only issue would be if they attract attention because they are so new, chromed, and shiny that they look like they just fell out of the Summit catalog."

Sounds like you may be in the "fell out of a Summit catalog" category, but I  wouldn't stress over it.  I also recommend running more or less  "as is" for the first race; your team will most likely be slow on refuels and driver swaps, and you'll find the weak points on the car the first time out.   But if you want to upgrade first then the worst that will happen is that you will get penalty laps. You are extremely unlikely to contend for a trophy your first race out, so it would be no big deal.  With a 30 year old car they may not assign penalties anyway, especially for a rookie team.

Bottom line: just worry about passing tech and then having fun.

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Stan in Bham wrote:

I posted the below in response to your other posting a few minutes ago:

"Don't stress.  I would bet big money that a '92 Firebird with factory engine and trans (even if not original), and downgraded to a carb will sail through BS inspection without a second look, and certainly with no penalty laps. Only issue would be if they attract attention because they are so new, chromed, and shiny that they look like they just fell out of the Summit catalog."

Sounds like you may be in the "fell out of a Summit catalog" category, but I  wouldn't stress over it.  I also recommend running more or less  "as is" for the first race; your team will most likely be slow on refuels and driver swaps, and you'll find the weak points on the car the first time out.   But if you want to upgrade first then the worst that will happen is that you will get penalty laps. You are extremely unlikely to contend for a trophy your first race out, so it would be no big deal.  With a 30 year old car they may not assign penalties anyway, especially for a rookie team.

Bottom line: just worry about passing tech and then having fun.

Thank you for your words of advice. I do think I'll run it stock first. I wanted to swap to a carb not for performance but simplicity. I'm only 20 but everything I know about cars was taught to me by my dad who was an old line mechanic. If I had my druthers I'd make a hand crank start diesel so there's no electronics at all but I can figure my way around a simple circuit. I've worked on everything from a 1930 Packard to a 44 Willy's MB to a 1951 imperial to a 94 ck3500. I've worked on modern stuff but not nearly as much as the old as they were restorations not for fixes. My favorite was always the ww2 military vehicles. Easy to diagnose, easy to fix even if they only had a top speed of 40. I've been watching the Lemons YouTube and all the fires and mysterious gremlins are in the electrical. I understand modern electronics with ecu's and a sensor for everything it in practice but not theory. Why we thought adding a computer and more plugs and sensors than Carter has liver pills is beyond me. It saves you .02 mpg but at what cost when the only thing you needed to go faster was a wire instead of a computer more powerful than what we used to land on the moon. I digress.

Thank you for your advice. If I can figure out how to simplify the stock wiring harness with the added safety switch I'll do that. If I can't I'll make it the way God intended and ask for pity. Can't wait to see you guys on the track with me probably in the pits.

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Our first Lemons build 11(!) years ago was a SBC/T5-swapped third-gen, so take this advice with a grain of salt, but don’t sweat penalty laps or a bribe. Unless you show up with some super-racy looking 350 or hella-cheaty tubularcoilbilsteinover suspension, you’ll sail through inspection no problem.

The small block Chevy has demonstrated itself to be one of the most blowy-uppy engines in Lemons and even the  26spline “V8” T5s are fragile like glass. The judges know this.

Invest in a good radiator, a rev limiter and come have fun. Cya at Pittsburgh.

Interceptor Motorsports
351w Foxy T-Bird - Class B Winner!, 440 Bluesmobile - Judges Choice, Org Choice & IOE!, Camero, Fuego Turbo - Heroic Fix & IOE!

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

Don, I’d say that a first time out team running a 3rd gen F body with a 350 is going to be B class. You start showing up with sway bars thicker than your forearms, a built SBC with a dog box 4 speed, you’ll get raised eyebrows, penalty laps, and A class.  But what you’re describing, that’s B, my friend.

Tradewinds Tribesmen Racing (The road goes on forever…)
#289 1984 Corvette Z51 #124 1984 944 #110 2002 Passat
Gone but not forgotten, #427-Hong Kong Cavaliers Benz S500
IOE (Humber!) Hell on Wheels (Jaguar)

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

dhharmuth, where you from?

Allways looking for Pittrace to get bigger and better.

It's my home track

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

The best B.S. bribe is an elaborate theme for your car & team.

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

derekste wrote:

The best B.S. bribe is an elaborate theme for your car & team.

or you could take the tried and true approach and fill a suitcase with spaghetti-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0is8IRRDofE

"THE WONDERMENT CONSORTIUM"
Everything dies baby that's a fact,
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back?

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

fitsbain wrote:

dhharmuth, where you from?

Allways looking for Pittrace to get bigger and better.

It's my home track

I'm from Oakdale, PA  about half an hour west of Pittsburgh depending how backed up the parkway is.

20 (edited by OhShitItsJimmy 2020-08-13 09:44 AM)

Re: What is a really good tech bribe?

derekste wrote:
derekste wrote:

The best B.S. bribe is an elaborate theme for your car & team.

or you could take the tried and true approach and fill a suitcase with spaghetti-os https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0is8IRRDofE

"I see a trend here..." (quote from the video)
Hrmmm... The fact that there are data that correlate with this scenario concerns me...