1 (edited by Bricoop 2020-09-15 03:21 PM)

Topic: Fender Flares

Does anyone have any recommendations for fender flares?  Something I can make from home depot. 

Right now I'm thinking of making some ghetto fabulous ones out of wood.  10 days and counting until CYBERFUKD's debut.

We're a little out of spec, I'd attach an image if I could figure out how.

https://i.imgur.com/Q8k7lv0.jpg

Re: Fender Flares

Trailer Fenders.

Re: Fender Flares

Second on trailer fenders :  https://www.facebook.com/24holpistonlib … 3513569194

4 (edited by Bricoop 2020-09-15 06:13 PM)

Re: Fender Flares

Thanks for the suggestions, not a fan of the trailer flares with this theme. I'll install them if I have to.

My first thought is to use a 4x4, ripped lengthwise and cut from corner to corner to create a prism. Similar to this, except ours will extend beyond the width of the tire.  Any other materials that might work? Bonus points for electrical materials. 


https://i.imgur.com/Ngqu35W.jpg

Re: Fender Flares

Try the rolls of black plastic flexible edging, riveted to the fender.

Re: Fender Flares

99% sure they have to be metal and structural or you will fail tech.  They are to keep tire to tire contact as close to impossible as possible since it tends to flip cars.  If you end up on your roof, driver is banned for a year and car forever.

Popular choices are 55 gallon barrels, trailer fenders, a second set of OEM fenders spaced out (wide-body loook) and various sheetmetal backed with 3/8" rod solutions.

Re: Fender Flares

what is the make/model?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Fender Flares

OnkelUdo wrote:

99% sure they have to be metal and structural or you will fail tech.  They are to keep tire to tire contact as close to impossible as possible since it tends to flip cars.  If you end up on your roof, driver is banned for a year and car forever.

Popular choices are 55 gallon barrels, trailer fenders, a second set of OEM fenders spaced out (wide-body loook) and various sheetmetal backed with 3/8" rod solutions.

I thinks its driver for a year, and car for the weekend.

88 Festiva  -  Damn Tree!!!
"We Are Not Really From Iran" Festiva  -  Motor and Trans to be anounced

9 (edited by Bricoop 2020-09-16 06:51 AM)

Re: Fender Flares

It's a 1990 ranger with the bed removed.

It's a 3x lemon racer being re-themed.

Re: Fender Flares

Bricoop wrote:

It's a 1990 ranger with the bed removed.

It's a 3x lemon racer being re-themed.

I thought PU had to have the beds now? Wasn't I yelled at about this a few weeks ago?

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

11 (edited by Bricoop 2020-09-16 10:31 AM)

Re: Fender Flares

What were they upset about?  There was a PU at Sonoma last year that didn't have a bed.  It did have structure built to hold up to racing contact.  Mine has a similar exoskeleten. 

I spoke with King John this morning and relieved most his concerns (I hope).

Re: Fender Flares

Bricoop wrote:

What were they upset about?  There was a PU at Sonoma last year that didn't have a bed.  It did have structure built to hold up to racing contact.  Mine has a similar exoskeleten. 

I spoke with King John this morning and relieved most his concerns (I hope).

we have raced a few w/o beds, not sure why people were so upset about this thread.

https://forums.24hoursoflemons.com/view … p?id=39333

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Fender Flares

Yea, not trying to debate it with anyone, I just wanna race.  Dollars to donuts I'd bet a truck rails and a bumper without a bed are stronger than a miata or golf rear end. But rules are rules and we intend to follow most of them.

It's quite stressful to wake up to an email from the Lemons chief justice saying you may be out of spec. 

I'm not one to brag (lies), but it is a long bed giving us an extra 12 inches of crumple structure wink

Re: Fender Flares

Bricoop wrote:

Yea, not trying to debate it with anyone, I just wanna race.  Dollars to donuts I'd bet a truck rails and a bumper without a bed are stronger than a miata or golf rear end. But rules are rules and we intend to follow most of them.

It's quite stressful to wake up to an email from the Lemons chief justice saying you may be out of spec. 

I'm not one to brag (lies), but it is a long bed giving us an extra 12 inches of crumple structure wink


yes that was my point. a lot of cars, ours included, have gutted hoods, doors, deck lids, even our roof is a skin....I don't see why a truck w/o a bed is an issue. We have raced several.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Fender Flares

Mr.Yuck wrote:
Bricoop wrote:

Yea, not trying to debate it with anyone, I just wanna race.  Dollars to donuts I'd bet a truck rails and a bumper without a bed are stronger than a miata or golf rear end. But rules are rules and we intend to follow most of them.

It's quite stressful to wake up to an email from the Lemons chief justice saying you may be out of spec. 

I'm not one to brag (lies), but it is a long bed giving us an extra 12 inches of crumple structure wink


yes that was my point. a lot of cars, ours included, have gutted hoods, doors, deck lids, even our roof is a skin....I don't see why a truck w/o a bed is an issue. We have raced several.


Since you didn't get it last time... Crumple zones work better when there is one on both vehicles. A bed might not do much, but it does more than directly hitting the damn frame rails of the truck. You NEVER want two solid objects like a frame and a cage hitting each other because they do not absorb energy like crash structure does and you'll impart much much higher forces on the driver. Lemons would very much prefer if you didn't gut the hood, but they let you because there is other crash structure that does most of the work. But removing a bed isn't the same thing, in that case you are removing a great deal of what little exists at the back end of the truck.

It also introduces the ability for a car to stick it's nose in between the cab and rear wheel. If you pull the bed off and build some simple super light frame to hold a theme, it's not as likely to hold off that other car as a real bed is. And any time you get a part of another car in around a wheel is dangerous.


Just because you personally don't think it's important doesn't mean you know better than those setting the safety rules for the series. I don't know why you keep arguing things like this.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Fender Flares

TheEngineer wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:
Bricoop wrote:

Yea, not trying to debate it with anyone, I just wanna race.  Dollars to donuts I'd bet a truck rails and a bumper without a bed are stronger than a miata or golf rear end. But rules are rules and we intend to follow most of them.

It's quite stressful to wake up to an email from the Lemons chief justice saying you may be out of spec. 

I'm not one to brag (lies), but it is a long bed giving us an extra 12 inches of crumple structure wink


yes that was my point. a lot of cars, ours included, have gutted hoods, doors, deck lids, even our roof is a skin....I don't see why a truck w/o a bed is an issue. We have raced several.


Since you didn't get it last time... Crumple zones work better when there is one on both vehicles. A bed might not do much, but it does more than directly hitting the damn frame rails of the truck. You NEVER want two solid objects like a frame and a cage hitting each other because they do not absorb energy like crash structure does and you'll impart much much higher forces on the driver. Lemons would very much prefer if you didn't gut the hood, but they let you because there is other crash structure that does most of the work. But removing a bed isn't the same thing, in that case you are removing a great deal of what little exists at the back end of the truck.

It also introduces the ability for a car to stick it's nose in between the cab and rear wheel. If you pull the bed off and build some simple super light frame to hold a theme, it's not as likely to hold off that other car as a real bed is. And any time you get a part of another car in around a wheel is dangerous.


Just because you personally don't think it's important doesn't mean you know better than those setting the safety rules for the series. I don't know why you keep arguing things like this.

I was informing him that he has to run the bed it would seem.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

Re: Fender Flares

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I was informing him that he has to run the bed it would seem.

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I don't see why a truck w/o a bed is an issue. We have raced several.


ok.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice

Re: Fender Flares

TheEngineer wrote:
Mr.Yuck wrote:

I was informing him that he has to run the bed it would seem.

Mr.Yuck wrote:

I don't see why a truck w/o a bed is an issue. We have raced several.


ok.

I was responding to his point that others have raced w/o a bed.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

19 (edited by Bricoop 2020-09-17 03:38 PM)

Re: Fender Flares

The judges are definitely doing the right thing.  Given the weird sh1t that can happen in a wreck, American tort law, and the 30 point IQ drop that comes with putting on a racing helmet, I absolutely can’t blame them.  Safety and risk mitigation must always be paramount. 

It’s also fun to debate the strength of truck frame rails relative to anything else on the track

I read the rules a dozen times and there’s nothing about removing a bed, but I should have reached out before we started the project given the modifications we have performed.  Lesson learned.  Thankfully John and I are discussing any concerns he has. 

For any of you who will be at Buttonwillow, come say hi.  Just don't nerf us, I'm not sure our rear end can take it.

Re: Fender Flares

and for fender flares, I got some cheap plastic ones on ebay.
Apparently teams have used them, and passed tech, and they seem to be ok
But obviously not as sturdy as metal.
So I got some and need to attach them to the sort-of new build I'm working on....

MarioKart Driving School: 1987 Honda Prelude Opus #28  (still can't win anything...)

21 (edited by bobnowoc 2020-09-18 09:49 AM)

Re: Fender Flares

Hello again Mr. Yuck.

1. In years past, you have seen trucks without beds.
2. The NEW RULES say DO NOT remove OEM crash structures.
3. A truck bed does crumple and absorb inpact energy, making it an OEM crush structure.


You were right, in 2018!  The new rules said do not remove body panels.

Have a good race.
Bob

Captain
1996 Crown Vic
Racing Cosmo
#55

22 (edited by bobnowoc 2020-09-17 06:51 PM)

Re: Fender Flares

For those that missed the lines in the rule book on this matter:

dhharmuth wrote:
I asked Pagel and he said, "The bed is part of the crush structure, keep it."

However in the rules it states:

3.D.2 OE Crush Structures. Modifications that reduce the size and/or effectiveness of OE crush structures — including but not limited to shortening or removing frame rails or unibody structures outside the wheelbase — are discouraged in the strongest possible terms. Cars with compromised OE crush structures are exceedingly likely to fail tech.



****Removing the bed is removing crush structures.
You MIGHT fail tech inspection***

Captain
1996 Crown Vic
Racing Cosmo
#55

Re: Fender Flares

Bob-seems like the new rules don't want any outside structure removed?  Is that correct?

Re: Fender Flares

A little bit more about our build and what we did:

A little background about me.  I've got no business owning this thing.  I have been a passionate racing fan my entire life.  All of my knowledge is theoretical, not practical.  I grew up in a white collar neighborhood with white collar friends.  The closest thing I came to racing experience is the local go-kart track and golf course. 

My entire mechanical experience consists of the time when I was 14 and hooked a briggs and straton 5hp engine to a scooter. I tied a kite string to the choke, zip tied the throttle open, and push started this death scooter.  The only way to stop it was to lift your leg, which had the string tied to it(duh), which killed the engine.  But if you didn't coast to a full stop before letting your foot down the engine would restart.  It was quite the balancing act and that's how I learned about engine braking.  It was fun until the kite string broke.  That was the first and last engine I worked on.

Despite not knowing where the headlight fluid goes, I do know a thing or two about planning and preparation.  I went to the Sonoma race last year and attended the driver's meeting.  I learned a lot, met some cool people, and tried my damndest to buy the Jakalope, but they changed their mind.

So I bought my buddy's brother's lemon's truck, a '90 ranger right around when the cybertruck was unveiled.  It's raced 3 races and was sold race prepped.  When we came up with the theme we started doing some drawings.  I also asked a dirt track and some off-road fabricators their thoughts.  We landed on 1x1x.05 tubing to make an exoskeleton.  Something that is strong, but will collapse in a collision.  The rear is tucked within the bumper and the bumper should be the first contact on any rear collision.  The cage is strong enough that I can jump on it, no problem.  The sheetmetal is attached via channel nuts welded to the tube and 1/4" bolts. I’m lucky that our chief electrician is also a solid fabricator.  https://www.instagram.com/cyberfukd/

Our #1 power consumer is a bit of a wild card.  he's an Aussie with a heavy foot.

If you see me in the pits, say hi.  Always looking to make new friends. 

If you see me on the track, I recommend social distancing.  I have almost as much time under my belt driving a stick shift as I do wrenching on Briggs and Straton engines.

Re: Fender Flares

Bricoop wrote:

Bob-seems like the new rules don't want any outside structure removed?  Is that correct?

Basically, yes. The more you strip away, the less material is there to absorb energy in a crash. The more modern a car the more every single panel contributes to crash structure in some way. On modern cars even the hood plays a role, albeit a small one. So if you want to get super technical, cutting down a hood does technically violate the "don't touch crash structure" rule. Though it's never been enforced that way. They don't want you messing with anything that is a major crash structure or item that helps minimize contact affects. So don't cut out your fenders to be paper thin, that lets the body get pushed in too easily and make wheels exposed. Don't swiss cheese your bumper bars so they're useless in a crash. Don't even dream about touching frame rails. In a truck you have minimal crash structure in the rear in stock trim, it's mostly the bumper and whatever supports it is on, and the bed itself. So if you swiss cheese your bumper, which is mounted on old seized effectively solid mounts, and remove the bed, all you're left with is solid frame rails looking to poke through the incoming car. You're leaving all the absorption to the other car.

Without energy absorption your cage is useless. The cage is there to stop the driver cell changing shape and crushing you, while everything outside of it comes apart. But if there is nothing to absorb the crash then the forces on the driver become much worse and in the worst case potentially deadly. Your crash structure increases the amount of time that the forces of a crash are happening over, which reduces the max shock that hits the driver. Don't think that just because you have a cage the rest of the car doesn't mean anything.


This is all a very long winded way of saying crashes are bad, don't do things to make them worse. You sure as hell aren't going to win because you pulled 100lbs of metal off your car.

20+ Time Loser FutilityMotorsport
Turbo Dodge Powered E36 Build
2008 Saab 9-5Aero Wagon
Retired - 1989 Dodge Daytona Shelby 2011-2015 "Lifetime Award for Lack of Achievement" IOE, 3X I got screwed, Organizer's Choice