Topic: New team Gingerman more questions

Hey everyone, piggybacking off of That Noise is Normal's post. We are putting together a 95 s10 for Gingerman in a few weeks and almost finished with the cage. The cage is coming together well enough that we're starting to work on reliability and thinking about logistics. We just had a few more questions (for now) about the truck and track. Thanks in advance for any help - seems like a solid group of guys on here so we're looking forward to meeting a few of you in person in a few weeks!

Our biggest reliability/safety question that we're working on is the rear brakes. We've upgraded to Power Stop components on the front, but the rear still has the old drums. I'm not sure a disc conversion is in the budget (or worth it) but wanting to get feedback here. With the upgraded fronts, do we touch the rears? I'm gonna guess those shoes haven't been replaced in a really long time.

Also, we have the 2.2L and know that we aren't going to beat many (or anyone?) on pace, we just want to turn good & fun laps and take plenty of notes over the weekend. The current tires are dry rotted and have to go so we're debating what to get next. We're looking at the cheapest set of Yokohama's we can find with the thought that an average new tire will get us through a couple races before we're ready to go a little quicker. Any suggestions here on if we should go a different direction?

And Gingerman specific question. Do we bring a generator? We're planning to bring the welder, just weren't sure how much access to electrical we'd have in the paddock?

Thanks again, we're looking forward to the shenanigans!

2021 Rust Belt GP Gingerman IOE - 1995 Chevy Super10
2021 Tony Swan Never Say Die mid-pack participant.

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

There are spots with electricity available, but i think those are reserved well in advance.   I’d definitely bring a generator... never know when you need to run a bunch of stuff all at once.   

As far as tires go, your plan sounds reasonable, but if you save money is really a question of how long you’ll be willing to run on a “passenger car” tire vs a purpose built 200 treadwear tire.  I see lots of “light” b and c cars go 1-2 or more(?) races on a direzza or falken.  I’d be willing to bet after one race you’ll be jonesing for a good tire so if you switch then you may have actually spent more scratch.   Fast a cars might go through 4-6 tires (or more) per race.

Team Orca

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

Thanks for the reply. Tractor Supply has some well priced generators near us so will take a look and see if my wife approves of the extra purchase.

That makes sense about the tires. I'll see what we can get our hands on with the budget we have left.

2021 Rust Belt GP Gingerman IOE - 1995 Chevy Super10
2021 Tony Swan Never Say Die mid-pack participant.

4 (edited by duthehustle93 2021-05-17 11:46 AM)

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

The rear doesn't do a lot of work, but with how heavy your vehicle is I'd bet you might have some issues with your rear drums. I'm 99% sure that anything related to brakes is budget-exempt, so it's a question of whether you'd rather spend the money on beer or rear brakes.

Yokohama IMO isn't known for a laps/dollar tire, Hankook RS4's are your friend here unless you are sponsored by Yokohama. Decent paced tire that'll outlast nearly anything and take abuse really well. I'm running RS4's on our Lemons miata and time attack/HPDE prelude and I'll usually get ~20-30 hours on the miata and ~8-10 events on the prelude. Relatively speaking, on my time attack miata I'll get 1.5 events out of A052, 2.5 events out of RT660/RE71R/RSpro.

We have a small welder and small generator. The generator can power the welder at anything below half power and it's always gotten us through whatever we needed. However, if for whatever reason we need to weld something thicker, almost everyone at races has a generator bigger than ours and we just have extra beers in case we need to barter to borrow a bigger generator. I'd recommend having a generator, but you can live without it.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

5 (edited by OnkelUdo 2021-05-18 05:00 AM)

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

duthehustle93 wrote:

The rear doesn't do a lot of work, but with how heavy your vehicle is I'd bet you might have some issues with your rear drums. I'm 99% sure that anything related to brakes is budget-exempt, so it's a question of whether you'd rather spend the money on beer or rear brakes.

Honestly, the issue with drums is mostly not capability it is at track serviceability.  We have run a few cars with rear drum and I will not play that game anymore BUT I can.  Replace everything in the drums and bring a spare slave cylinder.  If one fails...even in the heart of F-body glory that is rural Michigan, we could not find a 4th gen slave with 150 miles of the track.

Either way, one tip other than a spare slave, bring all the old hardware in a baggie because some jackhole will launch a spring into Ohio while fixing an issue.

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

Jackhole launching a spring into Ohio made me laugh bc that will prob be me!  Teammate here said we should take the old parts with us so you two are on the same wavelength about me losing parts :-)

2021 Gingerman-I:  IOE (Strickland Propane)
2021 Gingerman-II:  20 seconds of footage on the wrap-up!
95 Chevy S-10

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

Thanks for the input. I'd love to go discs on the rear but looks like we'll be using drums for this race due to time constraints. This pesky day job is getting in the way of essential Lemons work!

2021 Rust Belt GP Gingerman IOE - 1995 Chevy Super10
2021 Tony Swan Never Say Die mid-pack participant.

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

rusty_lugnuts wrote:

Thanks for the input. I'd love to go discs on the rear but looks like we'll be using drums for this race due to time constraints. This pesky day job is getting in the way of essential Lemons work!

Ran drums on the back of a front heavy RWD Celica for a couple of years, they will be fine as long as they are maintained and it sounds like you have replaced everything, as others say they don't do much anyway. The one thing to do is adjust the rears after the day racing on Saturday as a little brake shoe wear will result in a pedal that is lower than it started and can make you think there is some other issue.

Apocalyptic Racing - Occupy Pit Lane racing
Racing the "Toylet" Toyota Celica powered by Chevrolet Ecotec.
24x Loser with the Celica. 16x loser in other fine machines
Overall winner Gingerman 2019

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

We ran drums on the back of our Camaro with no issues for years.  Like others have said make sure everything is in working order, check them out  and adjust them between sessions.  At the end we DID swap to rear discs and it DID help the car stop better, but for the first few races drums will be just fine as you guys learn how it all goes.

Wagner severe duty shoes worked VERY well for us in the Camaro, and I know your wallet is thin but get new cylinders and springs, they are not THAT expensive for an S10.

Team Sucker Punch: Winner Class B Doing Time at Joliet 2023 Autobahn ,Winner Org Choice award Were the Elite Meet to Cheat 2015
Chevy Camaro (Tiger striped #38)  (1989-2017 RIP old friend)
Chevy Corvette 1984......and still racing!

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

+ 1 to the Falken or Hankook 200TW tires.  Our first build we ran cheap passenger Pep Boys tires and they didn't finish Saturday.  Getting an actual 200TW tire will last longer and dramatically increase your performance on track.  I know Lemons is sponsored by Yokohama and you have a chance at winning a free set, but the two brands I mentioned tend to be around $50 less per tire. You are guaranteed to save $200, to me that seems like a better deal. 

Also, brake pads.  Powerstop is not often considered a top brand for endurance racing and drilled rotors often crack.  You didn't say what you actually have, but you may want to bring an extra set of pads.   There are other brands like Hawk, Porterfield, etc that make pads that will last you the entire weekend and possibly two.  They cost more initially, but the life of the pad pays for itself.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive, 2017 Thompson I Got Screwed, 2019 Pitt Heroic Fix

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

meyers0150 wrote:

+ 1 to the Falken or Hankook 200TW tires.  Our first build we ran cheap passenger Pep Boys tires and they didn't finish Saturday.  Getting an actual 200TW tire will last longer and dramatically increase your performance on track.  I know Lemons is sponsored by Yokohama and you have a chance at winning a free set, but the two brands I mentioned tend to be around $50 less per tire. You are guaranteed to save $200, to me that seems like a better deal. 

Also, brake pads.  Powerstop is not often considered a top brand for endurance racing and drilled rotors often crack.  You didn't say what you actually have, but you may want to bring an extra set of pads.   There are other brands like Hawk, Porterfield, etc that make pads that will last you the entire weekend and possibly two.  They cost more initially, but the life of the pad pays for itself.


Hawk pads are amazing but expensive. Well worth it though. We ran Hawk at Gingerman last Oct and for the first time we don't need to touch our brakes for next race.

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

meistro wrote:
meyers0150 wrote:

+ 1 to the Falken or Hankook 200TW tires.  Our first build we ran cheap passenger Pep Boys tires and they didn't finish Saturday.  Getting an actual 200TW tire will last longer and dramatically increase your performance on track.  I know Lemons is sponsored by Yokohama and you have a chance at winning a free set, but the two brands I mentioned tend to be around $50 less per tire. You are guaranteed to save $200, to me that seems like a better deal. 

Also, brake pads.  Powerstop is not often considered a top brand for endurance racing and drilled rotors often crack.  You didn't say what you actually have, but you may want to bring an extra set of pads.   There are other brands like Hawk, Porterfield, etc that make pads that will last you the entire weekend and possibly two.  They cost more initially, but the life of the pad pays for itself.


Hawk pads are amazing but expensive. Well worth it though. We ran Hawk at Gingerman last Oct and for the first time we don't need to touch our brakes for next race.

Interesting that you say that.  I find the Hawks to be the most reasonably priced of what I would term "premium" race pads (i.e. Porterfield, Pagid, etc).

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

cheseroo wrote:
meistro wrote:
meyers0150 wrote:

+ 1 to the Falken or Hankook 200TW tires.  Our first build we ran cheap passenger Pep Boys tires and they didn't finish Saturday.  Getting an actual 200TW tire will last longer and dramatically increase your performance on track.  I know Lemons is sponsored by Yokohama and you have a chance at winning a free set, but the two brands I mentioned tend to be around $50 less per tire. You are guaranteed to save $200, to me that seems like a better deal. 

Also, brake pads.  Powerstop is not often considered a top brand for endurance racing and drilled rotors often crack.  You didn't say what you actually have, but you may want to bring an extra set of pads.   There are other brands like Hawk, Porterfield, etc that make pads that will last you the entire weekend and possibly two.  They cost more initially, but the life of the pad pays for itself.


Hawk pads are amazing but expensive. Well worth it though. We ran Hawk at Gingerman last Oct and for the first time we don't need to touch our brakes for next race.

Interesting that you say that.  I find the Hawks to be the most reasonably priced of what I would term "premium" race pads (i.e. Porterfield, Pagid, etc).

I say that because we upgraded from the autozone variety that leaves us burning down to metal a few hours before that days checkered flag. Joey bought the set we have on the car now and I think but not sure that he paid $300 a set. A set being front and a set as rear.

The downside is the budget up front. The plus is way way better stopping performance and I think we're going to get another race out of them. We will be adding some kinda cooling ducts though. When they heat up to the boiling point you might as well not have brakes at all lol. DOT 4 fluid seems like good plan too.

Re: New team Gingerman more questions

meistro wrote:

The downside is the budget up front. The plus is way way better stopping performance and I think we're going to get another race out of them. We will be adding some kinda cooling ducts though. When they heat up to the boiling point you might as well not have brakes at all lol. DOT 4 fluid seems like good plan too.

A lot of places to go cheap, but brakes isn't one of them  I did the same as you my first race and had a brake failure, so never again.  Look at Motul 600 or better for brake fluid.  Regular DOT 3 or 4 will not cut it.  There have been a few very serious accidents that involved boiling of fluid which could be easily avoided.  Yes, the Motul, Hawks, Porterfield, etc are expensive but way cheaper than an ambulance ride, or honestly even 2 sets of Autozone pads per race. 

Also, always check your brake wear on Saturday night just to be safe.

Team Glue Sticks
00 Firebird, 02 X-Type, 93 NX2000, 00 Mazda 626 (Sold)
2016 NJMP Heroic Fix, 2017 NJMP Near Heroic Fix except we can't drive, 2017 Thompson I Got Screwed, 2019 Pitt Heroic Fix