Topic: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

I recently acquired my race car, a 5-speed 1995 Mazda MX-6 LS, for free, and have been slowly getting it running better to get it ready for a race I'm hoping to compete in next November. However, I'm very close to the $500 limit and want to attempt to sell off some parts to try and NOT get BS factor points. I need this because I don't know what other parts this car may need to get running, and I would like to buy a cold air intake, since the stock intake is crapping up, and I'd rather just replace the intake with a CAI than try to fix up the crappy stock intake. However, when looking at the rules, it says that you can only sell off bits that count towards the $500 rule. So... what can I sell off? I don't really wanna sell off some bits that might make the car suck after the race, because I would like to have it be somewhat decent car to drive around after the race, so I'd rather not make it like 100% race, ie taking out the noise cancellation. So what all is legal to sell?

Also, would anyone like to look at my budget plan Excel spreadsheet and make sure that everything is up to par? I really want to make sure I have my budget straight and see if there's anything I can do to get anything cheaper. https://1drv.ms/x/s!AhyEaBTWxWZXgbsIpxeBqM5m682Cug

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

You said you've already acquired the car for zero dollar purchase price. Several experienced builders here have already addressed your question; they've said you can't go _below_ zero by selling off additional parts. You'll be able to find those threads by selecting the Lemons Newcomers sub-header and browsing the thread subjects for additional details. I lurked here for over a year before signing up for an account; I still had questions, though.

You can spend as much as you want on _safety_ needs - safety doesn't count toward the budget.

Welcome, and good luck on your build.

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

You said you've already acquired the car for zero dollar purchase price. Several experienced builders here have already addressed your question; they've said you can't go _below_ zero by selling off additional parts. You'll be able to find those threads by selecting the Lemons Newcomers sub-header and browsing the thread subjects for additional details. I lurked here for over a year before signing up for an account; I still had questions, though.

You can spend as much as you want on _safety_ needs - safety doesn't count toward the budget.

Welcome, and good luck on your build.

The issue is the car was aquired not running for free, so I've had to spend some money trying to get it fixed, which costs towards the $500

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

Anything not safety related. safety related stuff includes brakes/suspension/etc. Not safety would be like the interior seats/panels, spare tire, windows basically anything that isn't necessary to make the car run. I have also heard stories about people buying a car with a super rare engine in it, they sell off the engine then put a different cheaper engine in the car.

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

A CAI is also not required for Lemons build so skip it for now if you don't have the budget and add it after the race using your residual. If you really want something, fabricate, don't buy. You can make a cold-air intake using cheap stuff you can get from the hardware store. It looks very lemony and the judges won't care what you spent on it.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

I don't think a CAI will add anything to performance, it might actually make it worse.  Get it running reliability, replace any belts or hoses that look suspect and go racing.  Don't sweat the budget on your car.  If you don't add race parts and keep it stock you will be B class or maybe C.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

7 (edited by DelinquentRacer 2021-12-13 09:52 AM)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

rb92673 wrote:

...Get it running reliability, replace any belts or hoses that look suspect and go racing.  Don't sweat the budget on your car... (i)f you don't add race parts and keep it stock.

This!!!^^^

I'm sure that we all appreciate your acceptance of the rules, and desire to stay within them.
I do... it makes it easier to pass you on track.

Judges understand that maintenance and reliability parts will be replaced.
They'd prefer that you not vomit your engine parts, transmission parts, etc. onto the track.
Generally, the only time that they object to what you've done to the car is add
parts that make the car hella faster, and/or make it handle well beyond how it should.

The formula is:

  • Keep the engine stock, but make it reliable with fresh belts, hoses, plugs and wires, etc.

  • Make sure that your wheels aren't going to fall off, or that your suspension isn't going to collapse.
    Example, wheel studs are a safety item. Most, not all, ball joints will not make your car faster (not strictly a safety item), though some cars can have options that do, but both keep your car from becoming a problem on track.

  • Anything related to safety, info, or driver comfort does not count toward the $500.

  • Spend what you have to. Spend what you want to. Accept the penalty laps if assigned, or bribe your way out of them if you can. Either way, you're not going to win your first race. Though, with a POS car that lasts the weekend, an excellent theme, or a really positive and helpful attitude, your could win a trophy.

  • Have a hella good time.

  • Ask for a residual value post-race to fix whatever you broke, or invest in making it a little better.

  • Repair or Replace what you broke or bent.

  • Repeat

  • Repeat

  • Repeat

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

TWB503 wrote:

I recently acquired my race car, a 5-speed 1995 Mazda MX-6 LS, for free, and have been slowly getting it running better to get it ready for a race I'm hoping to compete in next November. However, I'm very close to the $500 limit and want to attempt to sell off some parts to try and NOT get BS factor points. I need this because I don't know what other parts this car may need to get running, and I would like to buy a cold air intake, since the stock intake is crapping up, and I'd rather just replace the intake with a CAI than try to fix up the crappy stock intake. However, when looking at the rules, it says that you can only sell off bits that count towards the $500 rule. So... what can I sell off? I don't really wanna sell off some bits that might make the car suck after the race, because I would like to have it be somewhat decent car to drive around after the race, so I'd rather not make it like 100% race, ie taking out the noise cancellation. So what all is legal to sell?

Also, would anyone like to look at my budget plan Excel spreadsheet and make sure that everything is up to par? I really want to make sure I have my budget straight and see if there's anything I can do to get anything cheaper. https://1drv.ms/x/s!AhyEaBTWxWZXgbsIpxeBqM5m682Cug

There is a section in the rules that defines everything "safety" related.. this includes ball joints, brakes, wheels/tires, etc. Anything that's on that list does not count towards the scavenging rule. So interior, emissions stuff, any performance parts sold, etc can count. However, you can't technically go negative so I'm not sure if it'd even matter. I feel like you may be over thinking what counts, as $500 should be more than enough to "improve" your MX6. If it's fixing your MX6, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how much stuff is included in safety. Also consider making your intake, we made our intake only because our car didn't come with anything before the throttle body. We made it out of some fence post we had laying around, ebay silicone adapters, and a K&N filter... costed about $30 all done.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

If you must create an intake, aluminum pipe, cone filters and silicon joiners are cheap at Summit Racing.  Make sure you have a bend before the MAF/AMM as many of them will run poorly without it.  Make sure it has a fresh source of air that isn't heated by the engine.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

10 (edited by TWB503 2021-12-13 02:13 PM)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

https://pasteboard.co/Ah3JCSlsGlJJ.jpg
would any of these NOT count towards the $500?
(link if the embed doesn't work: https://pasteboard.co/Ah3JCSlsGlJJ.jpg)

(The fuel sending unit includes the fuel pump, so I don't think it counts)

11 (edited by majo 2021-12-13 02:45 PM)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

I run your twin in the midwest ( 95 Ford Probe ).  No judge is going to care if you spend that money on the items listed to get a 26 year old car running properly.  I gaurantee you'll get zero laps as long as you don't add aftermarket performance parts, and even then they probably won't care.  Just get it reliable, add good brakes, cage it, add the proper safety stuff and go race and have fun.  Hit me up if you want tips on a cheap-ish effective brake set-up.

COM ( Chief Operating Moron ) of Burnt Rubber Soul Racing
Current fleet: 95 Ford Probe, 81 Mazda 626.  Past: 81 Imperial
Facebook page:  https://www.facebook.com/burntrubbersoulracing

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

TWB503 wrote:

Also, would anyone like to look at my budget plan Excel spreadsheet and make sure that everything is up to par? I really want to make sure I have my budget straight and see if there's anything I can do to get anything cheaper. https://1drv.ms/x/s!AhyEaBTWxWZXgbsIpxeBqM5m682Cug

After a (real quick) look at your preliminary budget,I have a few suggestions regarding your driver gear and car equipment.

First off,the innerwebs are your friend when it comes to buying gear.With patience and lots of searches,you can usually find things like drivers suits and gear for a lot less than retail.There are "closeouts","garage sales" and lots of other discounts available,if you take the time to look.Check Summit, RaceQuip, Discovery Parts, SafeRacer,or any of the other major outlets.
RaceImage also sells used Nascar gear at a reasonable price.
You may have to wait to find the right size,but you've got time,right? .

A lot of racers sell off their old gear when they upgrade. Just make sure the SFI tags are intact.I was able to win an eBay auction for a SFI  3.2A/5 suit for a grand total of $27.00 including shipping.It took a long time,and lots of searching,but it was worth it....

You can also score used parts for your racecar,too.
Hit the local junkyards and scour them for seat sliders.I hear the double-locking ones in Volvos are a popular item in Lemons. Fabricate seat mounts as opposed to buying them off the shelf.

For your first race,decide if you really need radios/comm.equipment.Put a big clock in the car and send your driver out with instructions to come back in an hour.Sometimes simple is better.Don't over think things....

These are just a couple suggestions,I'm sure there are others who will chime in....

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

Your heart is in the right place but don't oversweat the budget here.  Spend what you need to make it safe and reliable first then don't worry if you go over a bit on budget.  If for whatever reason you rub a judge the wrong way or they see something they don't like and you end up with some penalty laps, trust me it won't matter one bit for a number of reasons.

1.  You weren't going to win anyway.  You don't know what you don't know yet and one of them is how to win a Lemons race.  Even people with extensive racing background have a difficult time winning one because the variables are different in Lemons.
2.  If you get laps, wear it like a badge of honor.  Someone took a look at your operation and made the determination that you actually have a shot at winning something.  You look like you have your shit together.
3.  If in the very remote chance that you do get laps it will make zero difference in the amount of fun you will have.

If your intake is jacked and can't be found in the DIY junkyard or it's cheaper to fit a CAI, then I might consider the CAI.  Otherwise I'd keep it stock and make ducting to feed cold air to the stock airbox.  Coroplast political campaign signs are free ducting material the day after an election.  Start stockpiling that stuff.  It works good as radiator ducting as well.  As previously mentioned, bolt-on aftermarket mods may do more harm than good and I'd bet pretty chrome CAI kits are prime contenders to do more harm than good.  And you hope to gain, what? 2HP?  You'll get much better return by cutting down the stock suspension springs and finding bigger swaybars in the DIY junkyard.

tldr; don't sweat penalty laps.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

Fabricate seat mounts as opposed to buying them off the shelf.

Wouldn't seat mounts count as a safety item? Thus wouldn't count towards the $500....

But yeah, as been said, worry more about getting the car running, reliable and safe than about the $500 limit.
The $500 is more of a "guideline" than a strict rule, IMHO.

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

dungeonracer wrote:

Fabricate seat mounts as opposed to buying them off the shelf.

Wouldn't seat mounts count as a safety item? Thus wouldn't count towards the $500....

But yeah, as been said, worry more about getting the car running, reliable and safe than about the $500 limit.
The $500 is more of a "guideline" than a strict rule, IMHO.

My comments were only meant as a guideline to help him budget his cash outlay to get the car to the track.....
(save a buck or two here and there...)

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

TWB503 wrote:

https://pasteboard.co/Ah3JCSlsGlJJ.jpg
would any of these NOT count towards the $500?
(link if the embed doesn't work: https://pasteboard.co/Ah3JCSlsGlJJ.jpg)

(The fuel sending unit includes the fuel pump, so I don't think it counts)

You'll be fine... repair items are a bit of gray area but they aren't going to be able to tell, honestly won't care, and you honestly shouldn't bother tracking things like oil and basic maintenance/repair items. I think they don't exclude these in the rules because then people are going to start arguing their $5000 built high comp engine was a replacement because they're engine blew up. Our engine is nearing end of life but a junkyard engine with 0 prep will be installed. My rule of thumb is replacement parts for our car have to be of equal or greater amount of grime buildup to match the rest of the car.

As others have mentioned, your heart is in the right place and that's awesome, but the judges won't look twice at your MX6 and you'll be fine without penalty laps.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

duthehustle93 wrote:
TWB503 wrote:

https://pasteboard.co/Ah3JCSlsGlJJ.jpg
would any of these NOT count towards the $500?
(link if the embed doesn't work: https://pasteboard.co/Ah3JCSlsGlJJ.jpg)

(The fuel sending unit includes the fuel pump, so I don't think it counts)

You'll be fine... repair items are a bit of gray area but they aren't going to be able to tell, honestly won't care, and you honestly shouldn't bother tracking things like oil and basic maintenance/repair items. I think they don't exclude these in the rules because then people are going to start arguing their $5000 built high comp engine was a replacement because they're engine blew up. Our engine is nearing end of life but a junkyard engine with 0 prep will be installed. My rule of thumb is replacement parts for our car have to be of equal or greater amount of grime buildup to match the rest of the car.

As others have mentioned, your heart is in the right place and that's awesome, but the judges won't look twice at your MX6 and you'll be fine without penalty laps.

That's good news then smile

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

I'll look into making my own intake.

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

dungeonracer wrote:

Fabricate seat mounts as opposed to buying them off the shelf.

Wouldn't seat mounts count as a safety item? Thus wouldn't count towards the $500....

But yeah, as been said, worry more about getting the car running, reliable and safe than about the $500 limit.
The $500 is more of a "guideline" than a strict rule, IMHO.

Your car came from the factory with seat sliders that mount PERFECTLY to your floor, have been crash tested,  and designed to slide easily.  Strip off any unneeded bits and mount your seat to those. The price is right and they work so much better than anything you could buy from the aftermarket.

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

TWB503 wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

You said you've already acquired the car for zero dollar purchase price. Several experienced builders here have already addressed your question; they've said you can't go _below_ zero by selling off additional parts. You'll be able to find those threads by selecting the Lemons Newcomers sub-header and browsing the thread subjects for additional details. I lurked here for over a year before signing up for an account; I still had questions, though.

You can spend as much as you want on _safety_ needs - safety doesn't count toward the budget.

Welcome, and good luck on your build.

The issue is the car was aquired not running for free, so I've had to spend some money trying to get it fixed, which costs towards the $500

I don't think that counts, many cars in Lemons were not running when they were acquired.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"

21 (edited by chaase 2021-12-14 08:33 AM)

Re: How does my budget look? / What counts towards rule 4.7?

Mr.Yuck wrote:
TWB503 wrote:
Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

You said you've already acquired the car for zero dollar purchase price. Several experienced builders here have already addressed your question; they've said you can't go _below_ zero by selling off additional parts. You'll be able to find those threads by selecting the Lemons Newcomers sub-header and browsing the thread subjects for additional details. I lurked here for over a year before signing up for an account; I still had questions, though.

You can spend as much as you want on _safety_ needs - safety doesn't count toward the budget.

Welcome, and good luck on your build.

The issue is the car was aquired not running for free, so I've had to spend some money trying to get it fixed, which costs towards the $500

I don't think that counts, many cars in Lemons were not running when they were acquired.

As far as I know, the cost to get the car running does count against the budget. There is a lot more leeway once the car has raced, you'll generally be given a pass to replace a blown engine and stuff like that.

"2.1    Vehicle Eligibility: Entry limited to mass-produced, four-wheeled vehicles legal for U.S. highway use at the time of their manufacture. Vehicles must be acquired and prepared for a maximum of $500 (exclusive of safety gear) as described in Section 4 ".

The applicable parts of section 4.

4.2    Safety Equipment DOES NOT Count Toward $500 Total: Safety equipment described in Section 3 DOES NOT count toward the $500 total. “Safety” refers to things that can save the driver—not things that can save the car.

4.2.1     In addition to the items and processes listed in Section 3, the following are considered safety-related and are therefore exempt:

    Wheels, tires, wheel bearings, ball joints, and brake components
    Exhaust systems downstream of the header/exhaust manifold (NOTE: Turbos and related components are NOT exempt from the $500 limit. Nice try.)
    Windshields and wipers
    Driver comfort & information (steering wheel, shifter, gauges, pedals, cool suits, vents, heaters, radio)
    All fuel hoses, fuel fittings, fuel filters, and related mounts; and
    All fuel-system components upstream of the fuel pump, including fuel tanks, fuel cells, mounts, fillers, vents, etc. (NOTE: Fuel pumps, carburetors, injection pumps, computers, and individual injectors are NOT exempt from the $500 limit.)

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner