• From: Elizabethtown, KY
  • Registered: 2017-11-30
  • Posts: 63

Topic: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

My father is a particular kind of nutcase, but we both have too much time on our hands and he’s always got a wild idea for a car. I’ve convinced him that Lemons is the place to go for such creativity.

We’re starting simple. We already own a dodge caravan that’s been used as a farm/tool hauler for ten years. 275,000 miles. I trust it to be reliable because I still take it on highway trips regularly. It also had a god awful decal job my mother put on it 15 years ago which will lend to a good theme.

I like it because it’s big enough to carry its own tires and gas cans, it’s the appropriate value and appearance, and it’s a ubiquitous car with plenty of parts and support. I am aware of the concerns for brakes on a larger car- it’s not as heavy as it might seem, there’s a lot of interior stripped out.

For our first race (aiming for bowling green this year) I just want to cage it, get good fluids into it, and make sure everything is basically as stock and in good shape as possible.

Rule 4.1 explicitly mentions cars one already owns that should be worth $500, and I’ll happily take BS laps if they’re earned, but my main question is how to document the car correctly or at least within norms and expectations?

If you’re gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
  • From: San Luis Obispo
  • Registered: 2011-09-02
  • Posts: 1,003

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

You will be okay. No need to document anything. No one will sweat you on a 20 year old Dodge Caravan. It will likely be welcomed as a conquering hero. The series needs MORE Dodge Caravans. The level of cheat you would have to put in a Dodge Caravan to make it something they would be concerned about is also the level of cheat everyone would want to check out because it would have to be magnificent. Bring it. Theme it. Have fun with it. I look forward to seeing it come out.

  • From: Elizabethtown, KY
  • Registered: 2017-11-30
  • Posts: 63

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

Wendell34 wrote:

You will be okay. No need to document anything. No one will sweat you on a 20 year old Dodge Caravan. It will likely be welcomed as a conquering hero. The series needs MORE Dodge Caravans. The level of cheat you would have to put in a Dodge Caravan to make it something they would be concerned about is also the level of cheat everyone would want to check out because it would have to be magnificent. Bring it. Theme it. Have fun with it. I look forward to seeing it come out.


I didn’t want to rely on “well… just look at it!” but heart of hearts, we all know it belongs. We’ll have some crazy stuff up our sleeves later. I’ll toss this one out there because it’s been vetoed by the rest of the team: I wanted to add two harbor freight pull start crate motors with centrifugal clutches to the rear wheels, have a nominally 3 engined van. Run the throttle by a cable, let the belt slip do the work of the differential, and fabricate some amazing amount of work to add 8 horsepower and a billion extra failure points.

If you’re gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
  • From: Cleveland, OH
  • Registered: 2011-09-03
  • Posts: 2,227

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

It's a Dodge Caravan. Documentation complete.

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  • From: San Luis Obispo
  • Registered: 2011-09-02
  • Posts: 1,003

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

zac.s.caldwell wrote:
Wendell34 wrote:

You will be okay. No need to document anything. No one will sweat you on a 20 year old Dodge Caravan. It will likely be welcomed as a conquering hero. The series needs MORE Dodge Caravans. The level of cheat you would have to put in a Dodge Caravan to make it something they would be concerned about is also the level of cheat everyone would want to check out because it would have to be magnificent. Bring it. Theme it. Have fun with it. I look forward to seeing it come out.


I didn’t want to rely on “well… just look at it!” but heart of hearts, we all know it belongs. We’ll have some crazy stuff up our sleeves later. I’ll toss this one out there because it’s been vetoed by the rest of the team: I wanted to add two harbor freight pull start crate motors with centrifugal clutches to the rear wheels, have a nominally 3 engined van. Run the throttle by a cable, let the belt slip do the work of the differential, and fabricate some amazing amount of work to add 8 horsepower and a billion extra failure points.

Absolutely no fail in this plan. Except, you know, for all the failure.

Judges and other Lemons people would likely enjoy it a lot. But one race in may be a little early to break up your team and, possibly, family.

  • Mr.Yuck
  • Mr.Yuck
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  • From: Brookeville, Md.
  • Registered: 2013-12-09
  • Posts: 1,012

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

zac.s.caldwell wrote:

My father is a particular kind of nutcase, but we both have too much time on our hands and he’s always got a wild idea for a car. I’ve convinced him that Lemons is the place to go for such creativity.

We’re starting simple. We already own a dodge caravan that’s been used as a farm/tool hauler for ten years. 275,000 miles. I trust it to be reliable because I still take it on highway trips regularly. It also had a god awful decal job my mother put on it 15 years ago which will lend to a good theme.

I like it because it’s big enough to carry its own tires and gas cans, it’s the appropriate value and appearance, and it’s a ubiquitous car with plenty of parts and support. I am aware of the concerns for brakes on a larger car- it’s not as heavy as it might seem, there’s a lot of interior stripped out.

For our first race (aiming for bowling green this year) I just want to cage it, get good fluids into it, and make sure everything is basically as stock and in good shape as possible.

Rule 4.1 explicitly mentions cars one already owns that should be worth $500, and I’ll happily take BS laps if they’re earned, but my main question is how to document the car correctly or at least within norms and expectations?


I cannot imagine getting any flack for using a Caravan. Just make sure the cage is correct and it is safe to run.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"
  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,497

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

zac.s.caldwell wrote:
Wendell34 wrote:

You will be okay. No need to document anything. No one will sweat you on a 20 year old Dodge Caravan. It will likely be welcomed as a conquering hero. The series needs MORE Dodge Caravans. The level of cheat you would have to put in a Dodge Caravan to make it something they would be concerned about is also the level of cheat everyone would want to check out because it would have to be magnificent. Bring it. Theme it. Have fun with it. I look forward to seeing it come out.


I didn’t want to rely on “well… just look at it!” but heart of hearts, we all know it belongs. We’ll have some crazy stuff up our sleeves later. I’ll toss this one out there because it’s been vetoed by the rest of the team: I wanted to add two harbor freight pull start crate motors with centrifugal clutches to the rear wheels, have a nominally 3 engined van. Run the throttle by a cable, let the belt slip do the work of the differential, and fabricate some amazing amount of work to add 8 horsepower and a billion extra failure points.

Lemons judge here: Wendell is right. Bring it and bring any pics you have of it when it was in family duty. Viking funeral for a minivan is awesome/encouraged.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: Elizabethtown, KY
  • Registered: 2017-11-30
  • Posts: 63

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

done and done. We haven’t turned wrench 1 yet so I’ll get some photos and back them up somewhere safe.

If you’re gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.
  • From: Chicago-ish
  • Registered: 2010-04-19
  • Posts: 3,497

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

Also, save the HF engine stuff for later—everyone has those ideas—and if you have extra time still after getting it to pass tech, spend it on making a really killer theme. It's hard enough making a Lemons car work as a car, don't complicate things more than you need to.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

therood's Website

  • From: NH
  • Registered: 2010-01-20
  • Posts: 3,299

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

Just to share for what has worked on a car that was not already in the "dear god that's a bad idea, so do it and we don't care about the value" category. The saab we prepped was a car my Dad bad bought brand new, then put 250k miles on as a daily. He started looking at new cars and got a trade in value for the saab from a number of places. Never got a value higher than $1000 because a number of expensive systems were broken like the back up sensors, auto leveling headlights, and a couple others. This $1000 number was accepted as car value in our case.

Your mileage may vary depending on what the car is, the story that comes with it, your documentation, and how many years you suffered racing a god awful Chrysler product prior to moving to a modern car.

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  • From: Camarillo, CA
  • Registered: 2021-03-26
  • Posts: 385

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

It sounds like it's already been covered but I'm sure you won't get any heat at all. I've seen a few similarly-capable vehicles roll into tech and the judge has already decided from a 10-foot distance that you'll be class C. As others have mentioned, just focus on getting the car safe and meeting the rules... as far as budget and BS inspection, you'll pass with flying colors without any paperwork. The judges will be rooting for your 20 year old dodge van, especially when they see current registration and find out you didn't trailer it.

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  • From: Queens, NY
  • Registered: 2014-05-17
  • Posts: 598

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

If worried, can contact Lemons people directly via email.
In reality, build the car, go to first event, they will evaluate your car, may not or may give you penalties. Than after the race they will give you base value and you are in the system at that point. Than its negotiations next races.

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13 Reply by Lemon_Newton-Metre (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2022-03-30 11:30 AM)

  • From: Elverson, PA
  • Registered: 2017-08-15
  • Posts: 1,124

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

*

14 Reply by chaase (edited by chaase 2022-03-30 01:16 PM)

  • chaase
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: East Meadow, NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,553

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

Guildenstern wrote:

It's a Dodge Caravan. Documentation complete.

/agree

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
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  • From: Elizabethtown, KY
  • Registered: 2017-11-30
  • Posts: 63

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

duthehustle93 wrote:

It sounds like it's already been covered but I'm sure you won't get any heat at all. I've seen a few similarly-capable vehicles roll into tech and the judge has already decided from a 10-foot distance that you'll be class C. As others have mentioned, just focus on getting the car safe and meeting the rules... as far as budget and BS inspection, you'll pass with flying colors without any paperwork. The judges will be rooting for your 20 year old dodge van, especially when they see current registration and find out you didn't trailer it.

I will say this: we plan to keep it street legal. We’ll absolutely be driving it down. It will remain in use: There are  these very conveniently placed kind of… hoops? Grommets? Latches?- these things in the floor the now-trashed seats used to hook into. They make a nice grab point for ratchet straps to secure a motorcycle in an enclosed hauler- like the one I plan to track at NCM a few times this year.

If you’re gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.

16 Reply by chaase (edited by chaase 2022-03-30 01:20 PM)

  • chaase
  • Lemons Staff Stalker
  • Offline
  • From: East Meadow, NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-06
  • Posts: 1,553

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

therood wrote:
zac.s.caldwell wrote:
Wendell34 wrote:

You will be okay. No need to document anything. No one will sweat you on a 20 year old Dodge Caravan. It will likely be welcomed as a conquering hero. The series needs MORE Dodge Caravans. The level of cheat you would have to put in a Dodge Caravan to make it something they would be concerned about is also the level of cheat everyone would want to check out because it would have to be magnificent. Bring it. Theme it. Have fun with it. I look forward to seeing it come out.


I didn’t want to rely on “well… just look at it!” but heart of hearts, we all know it belongs. We’ll have some crazy stuff up our sleeves later. I’ll toss this one out there because it’s been vetoed by the rest of the team: I wanted to add two harbor freight pull start crate motors with centrifugal clutches to the rear wheels, have a nominally 3 engined van. Run the throttle by a cable, let the belt slip do the work of the differential, and fabricate some amazing amount of work to add 8 horsepower and a billion extra failure points.

Lemons judge here: Wendell is right. Bring it and bring any pics you have of it when it was in family duty. Viking funeral for a minivan is awesome/encouraged.

Better yet...get all of the family pictures, blow them up to poster size and glue them to the body of this glorious machine.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner
  • From: Camarillo, CA
  • Registered: 2021-03-26
  • Posts: 385

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

zac.s.caldwell wrote:
duthehustle93 wrote:

It sounds like it's already been covered but I'm sure you won't get any heat at all. I've seen a few similarly-capable vehicles roll into tech and the judge has already decided from a 10-foot distance that you'll be class C. As others have mentioned, just focus on getting the car safe and meeting the rules... as far as budget and BS inspection, you'll pass with flying colors without any paperwork. The judges will be rooting for your 20 year old dodge van, especially when they see current registration and find out you didn't trailer it.

I will say this: we plan to keep it street legal. We’ll absolutely be driving it down. It will remain in use: There are  these very conveniently placed kind of… hoops? Grommets? Latches?- these things in the floor the now-trashed seats used to hook into. They make a nice grab point for ratchet straps to secure a motorcycle in an enclosed hauler- like the one I plan to track at NCM a few times this year.

That's awesome... I'm rooting for you! I have a lot of respect to teams that drive their cars to a Lemons race... really up's the ante!

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i
  • Registered: 2018-02-04
  • Posts: 308

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

Wendell34 wrote:

No one will sweat you on a 20 year old Dodge Caravan...The level of cheat you would have to put in a Dodge Caravan to make it something they would be concerned about is also the level of cheat everyone would want to check out because it would have to be magnificent.

Pretty sure you can do whatever you want to a Caravan and get nothing but high fives from the judges as long as your cage, belts, and fire suppression are good.  I started to ask "why" on the Harbor Freight idea, but realized you would just quote Sir Edmund Hillary.

  • From: Elizabethtown, KY
  • Registered: 2017-11-30
  • Posts: 63

Re: How to document a car I already own? 2003 Dodge Caravan.

Stan in Bham wrote:

Pretty sure you can do whatever you want to a Caravan and get nothing but high fives from the judges as long as your cage, belts, and fire suppression are good.  I started to ask "why" on the Harbor Freight idea, but realized you would just quote Sir Edmund Hillary.


to give you an idea of how I think, I present to you some artwork I've been using to persuade my teammates to think outside the box.

https://imgur.com/a/3sCjWmt

If you’re gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough.