Topic: Starting new team in San Diego

I'm building an 1992 Acura Integra in San Diego and I'm looking for two or three partners to help with costs and maybe have a car trailer. Also any advise on a cage. How it looks to me is that the mail order kits are cookie cutter... Small car, Medium car, and Large car. The problem is the Integra is a small car and to make a universal small car cage they make the cage small so they fit into a bunch of small cars. I asked John Pagel via email about the Rhodes cages and he wasn't impressed with their cages saying they take up too much room. Does anybody know a builder who may have the measurements for specific vehicles. There are several custom builders in San Diego but the price difference from mail order is a couple thousand coconuts.
Thanks
Steve

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

With a small car you run a risk that a generic cage will not give you enough headroom to fit your drivers.  Get a seat first and then get someone to bend the cage for your car and seat.  If you are not an expert welder, get someone to weld it for you.

Some people will mention roll cage components as a source for a cage.  There are others who know of local cage builders.

The cage is the most expensive part of a new build.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

It's a bit far... but Kevin at Pit Garage has made a couple of friends' miata cages and they were on the less expensive end and the quality looked pretty good. Miata cages are easier though and everyones done dozens of miata cages, so I'm sure an integra is cheaper. If it's a grand or two cheaper, it may be worth you bringing it to the LA rea. Not sure if that's helpful, don't cheap out on a cage.

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4 (edited by cheseroo 2022-07-08 07:55 AM)

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

Unless you are okay with tube notching, welding and general fabrication then I would stay from the kits because you'll need to do all of that and more.  If you can do all those things, then Roll Cage Components seems preferred over Rhodes.  https://rollcagecomponents.com/24-hours … oll-cages/  If you are building for Buttonwillow, then the ship has probably already sailed if you want to go the kit route.  It won't be ready in time.  I contract out my cages and prefer people who have built for Lemons.  Pagel may or may not have time to build you a cage in time (he's building a house in Nova Scotia right now).  I used Chris Buckman for my last cage and was happy with it https://chrisbuckmanfabrication.com/  Yeah, he's a fair bit away but I would imagine he'd get it back to you quickest plus he's one of us.  In general, preparing a car takes a lot more time and money than you'd think when first setting out.  Granted, I don't have a bunch of spare time but I'd be a bit concerned about getting it done in time if I was to start a build right now for Buttonwillow.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

1. I suggest you consider what your anticipated amortization schedule would be for the cage - that's what helped me relax about the cost involved.

$4000 cage / 10 races = $400 / race
$400 / race // 4 drivers = $100 / driver race

That's not too much

2. I would be surprised if any cage builder gave away measurements for any reason.

There's work and expertise involved in taking measurements for yourself; that's your intellectual property.

Any perceived poor, incorrect, or misunderstood measurements could diminish a reputation; I wouldn't do it for you.

Besides, you can measure it yourself, and get the kit exactly the way you want it.


S&W Performance Group (swracecars.com, 12 miles from me now in SE PA; not particularly useful for you because shipping) lists kits for certain cars which use _their_ measurements; that is: their engineer measured the cars which came in, and the tubing is bent to those measurements.

Those measurements are primarily for cars with the interior still intact; that's what they say on their website. Also, there's a lot of local drag strips, and there seems to be a showroom stock group(?) that's pretty active, which explains the corporate focus.

This might also explain the comments that 'kits take too much room' - guessing they're designed for the more prevalent 'intact interior' cars, not stripped race cars.

I also stopped in and got to talk to the (owner? manager?) answer guy, because I have a Lemons candidate with relatively low production numbers - SC400.

He said I could bring in a stripped car, and his engineer would measure it, and they would design and bend a kit specific for that car with the interior out. He seemed interested in me doing that, because they didn't have a stripped SC400 in their database.

Or, that _I_ could measure, and they'd bend a kit to my specs.
In the 'Lemons Roll Cage' item, there's a link to a data sheet which includes a 'tubing bend template' to facilitate measurements for them.

For them, a kit with 1 3/4" x .120" DOM Lemons cage ~$808, and NASCAR door bar kit for $170; EWS: ~$485, then the NASCAR door bars. Plus shipping, of course.

I could also arrange for them to weld in a cage if I left the car there. It was two years ago, but I think he recommended the seat be installed so the cage could be measured.

Wouldn't surprise me if any good supplier would offer the same service.

RCC gets a lot of recommendations in this forum.

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

All good advise, and you're right about the time line. I inquired with a couple of shops that fabricate roll cages and of it they said they'd need the car for 3-4 weeks and the estimates were $5000 but the owner said it would probably more, the other estimate was $6500, tomorrow I'll do a little more shopping around. Everything cost more in California.
I liked an add for a Lemons car. It said the car is free, just pay for the safety stuff.
Good Times

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

Call Pagel and/or Chris Buckman.  I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how much less they charge than your quote.  But in general, an already built car will end up being cheaper.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

Thanks for all the replies. I've decided to shit can that project and bought a Ford Probe that has already done some Lemons. My goal was to get to Buttonwillow since it is only 3.5hrs from San Diego, otherwise it was Sonoma or Thunder Hill which is a long way to drive if a tech problem arises. Getting the Integra ready for Buttonwillow was becoming a real challenge. So now the Integra is for sale for the low low price of $500 coconuts.

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

stv--48 wrote:

...and bought a Ford Probe that has already done some Lemons. My goal was to get to Buttonwillow...

When was the last time it passed tech?  Do you need someone to look it over and advise if it needs updates?

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

rb92673 wrote:
stv--48 wrote:

...and bought a Ford Probe that has already done some Lemons. My goal was to get to Buttonwillow...

When was the last time it passed tech?  Do you need someone to look it over and advise if it needs updates?

Take him up on this,....it never hurts to have a 'seasoned' set of eyes look it over......

40+x Loser.....You'd think I would learn......
5x I.O.E  Winner   1 Heroic Fix Winner   1 Org Choice Winner
2x  I Got Screwed Winner    2x Class C Winner
(Still a Class B driver in a Class A car)

11 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2022-08-16 01:57 PM)

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

I believe it's this Probe; 2018

Re: Starting new team in San Diego

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

I believe it's this Probe; 2018

If that is true, I would suggest replacing the foam with high density foam and ensuring the battery is secured (not the box) per the rules.  Double check the dates on the belts and fire suppression.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon