Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Nascar, Indycar, F1 and probably some other series restrict lateral movement with cockpit/seat design.  A driver's head can't move left or right.   A Hans seems perfect for those cars.  Also, there must be some danger in side impact or why would these organizations require all that padding around the helmet.  Does anyone remember the Nascar driver, Jerry Nadeau? He had a driver's side impact against a wall and he's had a long recovery.  His crash may be the reason Nascar mandated the elaborate seats used today.

I don't see that level of lateral support in endurance cars.  Is it a vision tradeoff?

127 (edited by kornfeld 2012-03-07 08:16 PM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I just went ahead and rented an R3 Rage and a Hybrid Pro Rage for Infineon from safedrives.com, which I linked to in this post.  The main guy there is Charles Buren, and he's been awesome to deal with.  Super helpful and patient with my questions. I also had some details to work out on shipping and some other stuff, and he was flexible with everything.  If anyone decides to try one of the Hybrid or R3 models, they carry them and do rent-to-own, and I definitely recommend them.  Awesome customer service.  I think the stock they have available for the rent-to-own program can vary, so you need to check in with them a few weeks in advance.

After all this research and debate, I'm 99% sure I'm going to go with the R3.  It looks like it performs better than the HANS (all of the test data is from marketing materials, so who knows, but it's probably at worst equal to the HANS), plus it's a little simpler than the Hybrid Pro Rage, plus it works with both a full racing harness and a regular 3 point harness. 

If anyone wants to check either device out at Infineon, feel free to swing by and see them...I'm racing with Chris Overzet/fabtoys, so I'll be somewhere near his big ass white truck and even more-bigger-ass trailer.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I also pulled these two images from safedrives.com, I hadn't seen them elsewhere:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-uJCF1d0S4dI/T1gesBCbAzI/AAAAAAAABVE/loo7NyM6TJw/s640/Capture.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-i-9r4p2HjW0/T1ge3QzhAnI/AAAAAAAABVM/CMD_TRrXYFc/s640/Capture.JPG

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Also...looking at the first picture of the crash dummies above, it looks like all three have slid over under their harnesses.  The neck is completely against the belts toward the passenger side of the car, and pretty far from the driver side.

I'm not sure what this means for the neck shear and neck twist discussed yesterday, but it's probably relevant in one way or another.

130 (edited by kornfeld 2012-03-27 11:45 AM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Just to throw in my 2 cents since I started this thread, I think I'd rank the currently available devices in the following order:


-R3 (pros: works with 3 point and full racing harnesses, seems like a pretty simple device)


-NecksGen (pros: adjustable brace angle, includes straps going to the side and to the back; con: requires a full racing harness)


-Hybrid Pro Rage (pro: looks to have some of the best impact safety ratings; con: requires full racing harness)


-Hans (pro: easily the device that has been tested in the highest number of real world collisions and has performed very well; con: non-adjustable brace angle, requires full racing harness)


-Isaac (pro: looks to have great safety ratings and is the least expensive if you go with the Link model; cons: anchored to the seat belts, so if a seat belt breaks, your  body might move but your head is still locked in place...and if you're in a fire, you have one more thing to worry about detaching before you can get out...and it isn't SFI certified, so if you're in a league that requires that certification, you can't use these)

And if Leatt re-introduces their Moto-R, I'd probably put that pretty high up on the list.


I'm not including personal fit/comfort in my ranking, seeing as that's so subjective.  Also, I'm sure other people would come up with a completely different order, so this is just my humble opinion.

131 (edited by kornfeld 2012-03-27 01:43 PM)

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

I used both the R3 Rage and the Hybrid at the race this past weekend, and I liked them both.

The concern about difficulty in putting either one of them on is kind of bogus...they're both just like putting on backpacks, and if you feel that putting a backpack on is a complicated and lengthy procedure, you probably shouldn't be driving a car in the first place.  The difference in time between putting one of these on and putting a HANS on is probably less than the difference between using shoes with velcro and using shoes with shoelaces.  And shoelaces aren't that much of a hassle.

I would estimate it took somewhere around 3 or 4 seconds to put the device on and buckle it, and then another 10 seconds or so to attach the clips to the helmet.  I'm sure I'd get faster at attaching the buckles with a little practice, which could potentially free up a whopping 5 additional seconds for racing!

As for comfort, I liked the Hybrid more than the R3 Rage. The R3 Rage only comes in the straight model (the non-rage R3 is the nicer model, and it comes either straight or contoured).  The R3 Rage wasn't uncomfortable at all, but I definitely noticed it in the seat more than I noticed the Hybrid, even with the U-shaped seat pad.

I could definitely tell that the Hybrid held my head more securely when laying my head sideways down toward my shoulder (like it would move in an accident).  This would be expected seeing as the Hybrid has side tethers.  I liked this.

I had fixed tethers on the Hybrid, and it didn't restrict my head from rotating to any noticeable degree while I was driving.  I could tell that my head couldn't spin very far when I was in the pits, but once I was racing, I never noticed them at all.  I also never noticed the buckles clacking against my helmet, so that wasn't an issue either.




So, conclusion: I'm not sure which one I want to keep.  I initially thought I'd go with the R3 Rage, but now I'm leaning toward the Hybrid because it's a little more comfortable and because it felt like it secured my head a little better.  On the flip side, the R3 can be used in passenger cars.  A lot of people have said that you don't need a head and neck device with three point belts because your whole body can move under three point belts, and I don't buy this for two reasons:

1.  All of the videos I've seen with 5 point belts show the dummy moving significantly, and to be honest, the amount of motion looks pretty similar to the videos I've seen of 3 point harnesses.

2.  People still get whiplash and neck injuries when wearing three point belts, so I would have to think that a head and neck restraint would help in those instances.

Yes, you can probably move more with a three point belt, but the idea that you're locked in place with 5 point belts isn't supported by any of the videos I've seen. 

I think I'm going to go with the Hybrid...but I'm still not sure.  I need to mail them both back today, and I might mail them back and buy one later once I've thought about it some more.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Not sure if this has already been posted elsewhere or not, but get a head and neck restraint, kiddies!

http://youtu.be/g40YatgE_CE

133

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

If somebody needs good deal on one pm me.

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Blast from the past. 

I had to send in my Simpson R3 Rage (that I purchased back in 2012) for recertification, and was told by Simpson that they couldn't recertify it because they can only recertify the newer models now. The old design that I had was made of a carbon composite panel, various screws, plastic, etc.

I have no idea if this is legit or not, but they weren't going to recertify it.

However---they did offer to sell me a new device with a 20%(!) discount if I just gave them my old one. I immediately took them up on it, because I've never seen these devices go on sale with that deep of a discount.

Anyhow, I went from the old R3 Rage up to one of the new Hybrid S models, and it feels very comfortable here at home. Looking forward to using it at Sonoma this weekend.

So in conclusion, if you also happen to have one of those old ones, keep this in mind--you might not be able to recertify it, but you might get a nice discount!

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

kornfeld wrote:

Blast from the past. 

I had to send in my Simpson R3 Rage (that I purchased back in 2012) for recertification, and was told by Simpson that they couldn't recertify it because they can only recertify the newer models now. The old design that I had was made of a carbon composite panel, various screws, plastic, etc.

I have no idea if this is legit or not, but they weren't going to recertify it.

However---they did offer to sell me a new device with a 20%(!) discount if I just gave them my old one. I immediately took them up on it, because I've never seen these devices go on sale with that deep of a discount.

Anyhow, I went from the old R3 Rage up to one of the new Hybrid S models, and it feels very comfortable here at home. Looking forward to using it at Sonoma this weekend.

So in conclusion, if you also happen to have one of those old ones, keep this in mind--you might not be able to recertify it, but you might get a nice discount!

NexGen did the same for us with one our older models.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Neck Safety Device Comparison

Oh well, I also use one of the old Safety Solutions R3.  I need to look at it to see when it's due for recert.  I suppose it makes sense that they sunset it because it's so expensive compared to what else is out there that they don't sell that many.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)