Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

cheseroo wrote:

That FD was from the TX team that also brought an RX2 (which they rolled), an FC with a generator/window AC, same FC with an exhaust heat powered moonshine still and my favorite was the pie pan sized boost gauge facing backwards on the rear quarter panel so that you could see how much boost they were pulling as they passed you.  I love those guys.

These guys sound like my kind of people. Out of curiosity was the still functional? Naturally not during the race, but as an amusing end of day activity?

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

Forget the rotary. Get one of these bad boys, huck it in an otherwise stock Miata (or anything), and enjoy Class C.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

28 (edited by Lemon_Newton-Metre 2022-11-02 02:33 PM)

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mgzzb: I think you did the 'Thumbnails for Forums'; try the 'Hotlinks for Forums' for large pics (I'm curious about this project).

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mazdagoeszoomzoomboom wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

That FD was from the TX team that also brought an RX2 (which they rolled), an FC with a generator/window AC, same FC with an exhaust heat powered moonshine still and my favorite was the pie pan sized boost gauge facing backwards on the rear quarter panel so that you could see how much boost they were pulling as they passed you.  I love those guys.

These guys sound like my kind of people. Out of curiosity was the still functional? Naturally not during the race, but as an amusing end of day activity?

At least one or two of Team Sensory Assault will be around Houston this weekend, probably. The still produced some kind of horrifying clear liquor that smelled like varnish. Judge Phil wrote about it here:

https://murileemartin.com/wordpress/?p=1407

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

therood wrote:

Get one of these bad boys...

While you're at it, make sure it's one of the diesel variants.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP, Organizer's Choice 2022 Hell on Wheels California Rally

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

Run the Miata as is if you want to spend the weekend on the track.  Swap it if you want to spend the weekend wrenching.

"We Got Screwed" NHMS 2017, 4th NHMS 2020,  4th NJMP 2021,
"Judges Choice" NHMS 2021,10th NJMP 2022, 3rd Thompson 2022
#847 Batmobile  aka-"Beulah"  search Squidrope Racing on Facebook

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

Lemon_Newton-Metre wrote:

mgzzb: I think you did the 'Thumbnails for Forums'; try the 'Hotlinks for Forums' for large pics (I'm curious about this project).

Yep, I messed that one up. Here are a few of the pictures from when I picked it up.

https://i.postimg.cc/Jh8NZnGz/09-BFE3-E3-6-D0-F-4961-8045-49246056356-D.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/V6GnxW4J/2-AD65-A1-B-B63-C-475-D-BBC0-A3-DC23-A746-FE.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SsNc1vL0/747-F6-BAD-7991-407-D-9067-EC29215-ABD89.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Dz3g66YF/D78-A7-B17-DE95-4197-AE87-11419-F4366-ED.jpg

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

therood wrote:

Forget the rotary. Get one of these bad boys, huck it in an otherwise stock Miata (or anything), and enjoy Class C.

How about two 36hp air cooled vw engines linked at the crank to make a flat-8? I have them in the basement after I was technically paid to take them. Our stubborn friend was dead set against it, but his opinion doesn’t rank very highly on my list of concerns at the moment.

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mharrell wrote:
therood wrote:

Get one of these bad boys...

While you're at it, make sure it's one of the diesel variants.

squidrope wrote:

Run the Miata as is if you want to spend the weekend on the track.  Swap it if you want to spend the weekend wrenching.

It appears you have so many entertaining ideas you're having trouble making a decision; I feel you. AT LEAST one of my ideas includes a diesel (I have a predilection for diesels).

You're not limited to only one race car - just sayin'.

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mazdagoeszoomzoomboom wrote:
therood wrote:

Forget the rotary. Get one of these bad boys, huck it in an otherwise stock Miata (or anything), and enjoy Class C.

How about two 36hp air cooled vw engines linked at the crank to make a flat-8? I have them in the basement after I was technically paid to take them. Our stubborn friend was dead set against it, but his opinion doesn’t rank very highly on my list of concerns at the moment.

I'll just leave this here  http://www.dlg.speedfreaks.org/archive/ … 0/3200.php

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita"  1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless) 2002 Jaguar x-type (Winner C-Class 2021 Sears Pointless)
Gone bye-bye
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)  1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites)

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mazdagoeszoomzoomboom wrote:
duthehustle93 wrote:

As kinda touched upon, it depends on your goals. Want to drive, stay out there, and have fun? Run the miata and leave it stock. Want to race in Lemons spirit? Flip the miata and use that money to help launch your team. We did a couple fix and flips to help fund our startup costs for the team... they add up quick and NA miatas are worth may more than they should be right now and would be a great financial start.

If you wanted the full Lemons experience, cleanup that NA, sell it, and fund the rabbit hole of running a Subaru. it sounds like you have a choice between the Lemons A class experience or C class experience. Theres no wrong answer here.

I think that pretty well sums up our connundrum for the team. Two of us would rather have a C class hooptie, and honestly don’t greatly care about even finishing the race as long as we have a good time. But we do have the one mutual friend who is a bit more competitive and insists we should race the Miata because, well it’s a Miata. I was kind of trying to make a case either way with the responses here, so we can decide how valid his argument is before overruling him or deciding to race the Miata.

My personal style is to find the crappiest, most unsuspecting car, and then build it as a sleeper. The Miata kind of meets that criteria on the street, but at a Lemons race it feels like even the most outrageous Miata falls a bit flat.

Side note: I’m not sure what I did exactly to make the site mess up so badly on the “thinking about the fd” chain, but some sort of punctuation at the end of my first sentence absolutely broke the internet lol. I was trying to say something to the tune of, “That fd was what made me worried about the engine budget, because we don’t want to spend the next decade trying to make it to lap zero”

We vote on everything on my team when it comes to big decisions and my moto is "as long as everyone is a little bit unhappy." It sounds like 2/3 want a class C experience, so it sounds like your decision is pretty easy. You can't make everyone happy, and to be entirely honest friend #3 may not hang around your team forever... and that's okay. Run your team the way you want it, and you'll find people with a similar mind set to keep your team running. If friend #3 is in it to win it, I don't think he's going to enjoy the Lemons experience enough to continue doing it, even if you run the miata. You'd be shocked with how organized, fast, and efficient the top 10 teams are.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

I think you have the right idea there duthehustle. I don’t think anything we do will make everybody happy, “you can make some people happy all the time, and all the people some of the time” or something like that.

I should probably phrase it to our friend as him being invited to race with us in what will most likely the Subaru, as I have realized it would cost me more in fuel to scrap that car than I would get back. Seems like a pretty fitting beginning to a Lemons build to be basically starting in negative cost.

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mazdagoeszoomzoomboom wrote:
duthehustle93 wrote:

As kinda touched upon, it depends on your goals. Want to drive, stay out there, and have fun? Run the miata and leave it stock. Want to race in Lemons spirit? Flip the miata and use that money to help launch your team. We did a couple fix and flips to help fund our startup costs for the team... they add up quick and NA miatas are worth may more than they should be right now and would be a great financial start.

If you wanted the full Lemons experience, cleanup that NA, sell it, and fund the rabbit hole of running a Subaru. it sounds like you have a choice between the Lemons A class experience or C class experience. Theres no wrong answer here.

I think that pretty well sums up our connundrum for the team. Two of us would rather have a C class hooptie, and honestly don’t greatly care about even finishing the race as long as we have a good time. But we do have the one mutual friend who is a bit more competitive and insists we should race the Miata because, well it’s a Miata. I was kind of trying to make a case either way with the responses here, so we can decide how valid his argument is before overruling him or deciding to race the Miata.

One word of advice from a seasoned team captain that has built a couple of fast cars and a lot of IoE contenders.  Cars are easy compared to building and maintaining a team.  Most teams lose 70%'ish of their team members before they run their first lap.  A couple of things can help seperate those that can/will stick around if the conflict is around what type of team goals you have:

Give them all vote but someone has to be designated "Benevolent Dictator".  Not all teams need this but most have someone that, when there are disagreements on the path forward, makes the final decision otherwise the team becomes deadlocked with no progress.  FYI, there are about three main types of team goals with infinite variation.  If the WHOLE team is not on board, you will lose members.

We are here for the whole Lemons experience and racing might happen
We are here for the racing but not at the expense of all that Lemons has to offer
I am here to race and will tolerate the rest of this circus.

Put their money where their mouth is.  If they are "all in" split a vast majority of the build cost ($3-6K for most teams) into equal parts and they pay that to the build...it is non-refundable but they can recoup it from a new member they convince to buy them out.  This normally will seperate those that think "this sounds fun" from those that can/will go the distance unless life gets in the way.  If the mutual friend is just interested but not commited, he won't pony up and you build what you want...then offer him the option of buying a stint when it is ready.

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

FYI, it doesn't sound like you were implying it, but just keep in mind your starting cost will be $0, not -$. So you'll have $500 of "improvements" to be made. We have about a $50 car, but don't plan on improving any further because... miata.

+1 to everything OnkelUdo said. This was very quickly my experience when I first started the team. Lots of people who think it sounds cool who make the process as a team captain very difficult. Take $ upfront, have people commit to meeting dates earlier rather than later. Double the amount of meetings you think you'll need. Set expectations very low for your first race, focus on safety and fluids and getting through tech. Have fun, try to not get last, bring lots of beer and good company.

Also, your looking for people who are reliable, financially responsible, and are okay with not getting their way. As mentioned, we always vote. Everyone gets a vote, and my (captain) vote counts as 1.00001 votes. That way if we have 6 people tied 50/50, there is a decision made. I'm thankful everyone on my team agrees after voting and everyones easy-going enough to not try to die on a hill. Also, I would argue 3 people is not enough.. I have around 7 people. 2-3 are consistent, and the rest all rotate. All 7 of them say they're "all in" but the reality is life gets in the way and people nowadays are unreliable.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

40 (edited by mazdagoeszoomzoomboom 2022-11-04 10:11 AM)

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

OnkelUdo wrote:

Give them all vote but someone has to be designated "Benevolent Dictator".  Not all teams need this but most have someone that, when there are disagreements on the path forward, makes the final decision otherwise the team becomes deadlocked with no progress.  FYI, there are about three main types of team goals with infinite variation.  If the WHOLE team is not on board, you will lose members.

We are here for the whole Lemons experience and racing might happen
We are here for the racing but not at the expense of all that Lemons has to offer
I am here to race and will tolerate the rest of this circus.

Put their money where their mouth is.  If they are "all in" split a vast majority of the build cost ($3-6K for most teams) into equal parts and they pay that to the build...it is non-refundable but they can recoup it from a new member they convince to buy them out.  This normally will seperate those that think "this sounds fun" from those that can/will go the distance unless life gets in the way.  If the mutual friend is just interested but not commited, he won't pony up and you build what you want...then offer him the option of buying a stint when it is ready.

That was very well put and really gives me the perspective I needed. It’s a pretty high chance I will be stuck holding the bag on this adventure, so I might as well use the cheapest combination of car and junk laying around the house that I can. I’m sure I can find plenty of other people to help split up the cost, and they can race/ help build  whatever I happen to have on my driveway. Given that I have a friend already happy to pay over $2k for the Miata as soon as I get a new top and window on it, this idea becomes more and more of a non-question.

I also realized I never put up any pictures of the Subaru in question, so here it is. Of course it would need a fender in order to be legal, but that a pretty easy fix at the local junk yard.

https://i.postimg.cc/HkJFH776/71253-A1-A-6196-41-DE-A8-FB-2083-CA81292-C.jpgamerican guy names

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

duthehustle93 wrote:

FYI, it doesn't sound like you were implying it, but just keep in mind your starting cost will be $0, not -$. So you'll have $500 of "improvements" to be made. We have about a $50 car, but don't plan on improving any further because... miata.

+1 to everything OnkelUdo said. This was very quickly my experience when I first started the team. Lots of people who think it sounds cool who make the process as a team captain very difficult. Take $ upfront, have people commit to meeting dates earlier rather than later. Double the amount of meetings you think you'll need. Set expectations very low for your first race, focus on safety and fluids and getting through tech. Have fun, try to not get last, bring lots of beer and good company.

Also, your looking for people who are reliable, financially responsible, and are okay with not getting their way. As mentioned, we always vote. Everyone gets a vote, and my (captain) vote counts as 1.00001 votes. That way if we have 6 people tied 50/50, there is a decision made. I'm thankful everyone on my team agrees after voting and everyones easy-going enough to not try to die on a hill. Also, I would argue 3 people is not enough.. I have around 7 people. 2-3 are consistent, and the rest all rotate. All 7 of them say they're "all in" but the reality is life gets in the way and people nowadays are unreliable.

I suppose I did word it a bit close to that, but yes I do realize we can’t have a sub-zero value for the car. I just meant it would cost me money to get rid of the car as it is. And we are not by any means under the impression that three noobs are enough to race, the three I keep referring to are just our “core group” and I have a few others that would love to be part of this, circumstances permitting. I may also search out a few other local-ish people using this forum to see if we can find drivers looking for a team.

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

mazdagoeszoomzoomboom wrote:
OnkelUdo wrote:

Give them all vote but someone has to be designated "Benevolent Dictator".  Not all teams need this but most have someone that, when there are disagreements on the path forward, makes the final decision otherwise the team becomes deadlocked with no progress.  FYI, there are about three main types of team goals with infinite variation.  If the WHOLE team is not on board, you will lose members.

We are here for the whole Lemons experience and racing might happen
We are here for the racing but not at the expense of all that Lemons has to offer
I am here to race and will tolerate the rest of this circus.

Put their money where their mouth is.  If they are "all in" split a vast majority of the build cost ($3-6K for most teams) into equal parts and they pay that to the build...it is non-refundable but they can recoup it from a new member they convince to buy them out.  This normally will seperate those that think "this sounds fun" from those that can/will go the distance unless life gets in the way.  If the mutual friend is just interested but not commited, he won't pony up and you build what you want...then offer him the option of buying a stint when it is ready.

That was very well put and really gives me the perspective I needed. It’s a pretty high chance I will be stuck holding the bag on this adventure, so I might as well use the cheapest combination of car and junk laying around the house that I can. I’m sure I can find plenty of other people to help split up the cost, and they can race/ help build  whatever I happen to have on my driveway. Given that I have a friend already happy to pay over $2k for the Miata as soon as I get a new top and window on it, this idea becomes more and more of a non-question.

I also realized I never put up any pictures of the Subaru in question, so here it is. Of course it would need a fender in order to be legal, but that a pretty easy fix at the local junk yard.

https://i.postimg.cc/HkJFH776/71253-A1-A-6196-41-DE-A8-FB-2083-CA81292-C.jpgamerican guy names

I had a very similar one in dark green...many moons ago. It was a piece of crap that snapped the timing belt at 19k miles!

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

And:

look at the "OkStupid Solo Driver Matchmaker" subtopic; sell stints on the forum when it's ready

44 (edited by bigamonsta 2022-11-27 06:49 PM)

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

I think I can reply-
I have 94 NA that has always been classed A. Lemons judges tend to hate miatas but for some reason I (I'm basically a 1 man team) seem to have still left a mark on the races I've been in. I'm not a car guy by profession and am essentially hopeless as a driver but have now done a lot of races and finished all but one of them. I've had over a dozen drivers through the car and had bought the car pre raced so essentially about 20 drivers have cut their teeth in Corky and done fine. There's been some spins and one accident more than a bent fender but otherwise we've stayed out of the penalty box for the most part and had a great time. The miata in stock form is a great platform to learn to drive fast in- very forgiving with no nasty handling tendencies and it tends to figure itself out quickly by coming off throttle. It's good on gas and tires tend to last. Most of your Lemons fun is the people and atmosphere at the races. The miata isn't annoyingly slow to other drivers on track either. Get a tall rear hoop on your cage (not a 'spec miata' cage), get a brake prop valve (this helps A LOT) and play with it, and start with some race brake pads (and change to DOT 5.1 fluid) and let her rip. The coolant reroute is also a great idea for longevity. Don't try to 'race' your first race if possible- do long driver changes and short stints etc- and have a good time. If you can find someone who has done Lemons before to join your team (even at a discount) it is super helpful. Find the miata folks at the race and ask questions- most of us are helpful and many of the others are knowledgeable- I don't know much but I have a lot of cheap spares to get you back on track for example.
Try to have a theme- the judges can suggest one- it's fun and the judges will like you more. Watch the Thompson 22 video and they air their complaints about miatas and also feature Corky.
Feel free to ask me anything.
If I continue Lemons I'll probably try to get a more strange car together but I have a ton of fun with my miata and getting new people involved with Lemons racing!
Tim

PS- that subi will blow up.

El Capitan of Team Corky
94 Miata transitioning to BRG because she now identifies as a Lotus previously covered in cork as Mazda/Toyo Kogyo tribute then painted like the Queen's coffin
4 time tire raffle winner. (So I got that goin for me which is nice)

Re: Is the answer always Miata? Even in Lemons?

duthehustle93 wrote:

We vote on everything on my team when it comes to big decisions and my moto is "as long as everyone is a little bit unhappy." It sounds like 2/3 want a class C experience, so it sounds like your decision is pretty easy. You can't make everyone happy, and to be entirely honest friend #3 may not hang around your team forever... and that's okay. Run your team the way you want it, and you'll find people with a similar mind set to keep your team running. If friend #3 is in it to win it, I don't think he's going to enjoy the Lemons experience enough to continue doing it, even if you run the miata. You'd be shocked with how organized, fast, and efficient the top 10 teams are.

This-ish.

We work hard to build consensus among the four primary members of our team. We have lunch together regularly to see which bad ideas have traction. The good news -- any really good bad idea will gain traction. We all pretty much have the same mindset. I tend to be too competitive and shouldn't take myself so seriously. A quick attitude adjustment usually solves all of our team problems.

--bb