• Registered: 2023-01-12
  • Posts: 13

Topic: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

I am in the process of putting together my team/car, and have a decent idea of all the things needed in order to pass tech. My biggest concern is the roll cage, as my friends and I are not welders, and know how important the cage is if you want to pass tech. I am sure we will pick up some welding skills during the build, but when it comes to the cage I'd much prefer an experienced professional. I am located in NE Minneapolis, and wondered if there was anyone in the area that could be recommended for a budget roll cage that can pass inspection?

  • From: Camarillo, CA
  • Registered: 2021-03-26
  • Posts: 385

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

What car do you have? If you don't have a car, don't forget there's lots of great deals on pre-caged retired cars.

If you don't have welding experience, a cage is NOT the place to start so you've got the right idea. Spend the money and find someone to build it... either a shop that makes cages or you can buy a "cage in a box" and find a good welder that can build it. Make sure this welder has made cages or perhaps a space frame chassis at some point. Just because they can weld, doesn't mean they understand how to make a cage and how to contort around a caged car.

Make sure you understand the rules and cage requirements, and make sure your fabricator knows the rules as well. Or you can work with them during the process to make sure the cage is built per rules and all your drivers will fit. Once the cage is tacked, send pics to John Pagel before they fully weld it.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i
  • Registered: 2023-01-12
  • Posts: 13

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

duthehustle93 wrote:

What car do you have? If you don't have a car, don't forget there's lots of great deals on pre-caged retired cars.

If you don't have welding experience, a cage is NOT the place to start so you've got the right idea. Spend the money and find someone to build it... either a shop that makes cages or you can buy a "cage in a box" and find a good welder that can build it. Make sure this welder has made cages or perhaps a space frame chassis at some point. Just because they can weld, doesn't mean they understand how to make a cage and how to contort around a caged car.

Make sure you understand the rules and cage requirements, and make sure your fabricator knows the rules as well. Or you can work with them during the process to make sure the cage is built per rules and all your drivers will fit. Once the cage is tacked, send pics to John Pagel before they fully weld it.

I already picked up the car - I wanted to be original so I went with a BMW 3-Series I picked up for as cheap as a running car is found these days. I would've loved to find something more unique, but in MN it's a little tough given my lack of connections and rust eating up pretty much every car. On top of that, I've always had BMWs so it was something I knew I'd be passionate about, and would be willing to put a few multiples of the price of the car into the cage and safety equipment etc.

I definitely won't be going with anyone that doesn't have good experience with cage building, and ideally I want someone who has done a Lemons build before. And my plan is to show up with the rule book/tech book of all the cage requirements, make sure they agree on it, and then like you said tack in place to get approval before the final weld.

  • Zacks
  • Ripened Lemon
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2022-10-17
  • Posts: 104

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Not sure anyone will want to "tack a cage in place first" really makes getting some welds 360 difficult.  Its even annoying crawling under a diag and harness bar to get to the rear down bars and you can't lie across the door sill if the side bars are in ect.

Just wanted to mention it so you don't piss off your welder,  I mean it can't hurt to ask ...I could be wrong but I wouldn't wanna weld it like that. 

I was even regretting putting passenger door bars in before wiring in the new ecu as I then had to work with the bar in my way.

  • From: Elverson, PA
  • Registered: 2017-08-15
  • Posts: 1,118

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Sleepybear wrote:

[snip] "... a budget roll cage that can pass inspection?"

^ You're looking for the 'holy grail' ;-), but this is where you want to spend your money: safety equipment, right?

"Plinth boxes" - many threads in this forum.

"Mount the seat first" - many times suggested here.

Personal interest: what BMW? I'll be interested in a build thread if you post one.

Zacks: I think you're letting out the 'secret sauce' of cage building - sequence of actions.

And I'm paying close attention.

The second seat shipped to me just hit ISC New York; let's see if this one makes it all the way. I'm itching to start planning my cage. NJMP is already right around the corner.

  • Registered: 2022-12-17
  • Posts: 18

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

I’m new to Lemons, but not structural welding. The LAST place you want to be cheap is your roll cage. Just because someone has experience welding does not mean they’re qualified to weld safety equipment. Getting proper penetration without porosity takes talent. Welding 360* around a circle requires even MORE talent. Talent is not cheap.
My best recommendation would be to go down to your local boilermakers union, or Iron workers union, (boilermakers 1st bc of their job requirements) and explain to the local rep your situation. They may know a gear head welder who will help you out for cheap. But remember in such a case that they’re doing you a favor and be nice, please!
Just my .02 worth.

  • Registered: 2022-12-17
  • Posts: 18

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Oh and to add to Zacks reply, instead of tacking the cage in proper welders can just use magnets so you can get a pic to submit before welding. Or clamps.

  • From: Minneapolis, MN
  • Registered: 2023-01-20
  • Posts: 9

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

One other idea would be to ask on the Technical Discussion forum of the Minnesota Autosports Club to see if anyone has a recommendation, there are some well connected and helpful twin cities guys who check in there. I'd post a link but the forum software won't let me on my first post, google should get you right there.

I'd be interested to hear who you end up going with. Some friends and I are planning on putting a car together for Road America this fall.

2001 focus zx3

https://www.instagram.com/pyrrhic.victory.racing/
  • Registered: 2018-03-13
  • Posts: 16

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Patience Metal Fab in Brooklyn Center bent up a few bars for me that didn't fit right from my roll cage components kit but we did all the welding and fitting on our cage.  If i had the cash I would have them do the full install cage but they are definitely on the high end of metal work.  When I asked around the audi/vw/porsche guys in the metro thats where they all said to go.

  • Registered: 2023-01-12
  • Posts: 13

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Nobunaga wrote:

I’m new to Lemons, but not structural welding. The LAST place you want to be cheap is your roll cage. Just because someone has experience welding does not mean they’re qualified to weld safety equipment. Getting proper penetration without porosity takes talent. Welding 360* around a circle requires even MORE talent. Talent is not cheap.
My best recommendation would be to go down to your local boilermakers union, or Iron workers union, (boilermakers 1st bc of their job requirements) and explain to the local rep your situation. They may know a gear head welder who will help you out for cheap. But remember in such a case that they’re doing you a favor and be nice, please!
Just my .02 worth.

Appreciate the info - I just found the local boilermakers union and will be reaching out to them to get started! And don't worry, I work in sales and know being an asshole doesn't do anything for anyone! And forgive my limited technical understanding, I fully plan on connecting the cage builder  and whoever I will have do the install before anything gets started, and will work with the installer to make sure nothing gets final install until we have approval from Lemons.

rust-eze wrote:

One other idea would be to ask on the Technical Discussion forum of the Minnesota Autosports Club to see if anyone has a recommendation, there are some well connected and helpful twin cities guys who check in there. I'd post a link but the forum software won't let me on my first post, google should get you right there.

I'd be interested to hear who you end up going with. Some friends and I are planning on putting a car together for Road America this fall.

That is a good idea - I'll be checking that out as well. I'll update this thread/start a build thread when I start moving forward on the cage portion. Look forward to seeing you at Road America!

  • Registered: 2023-01-12
  • Posts: 13

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

points1928 wrote:

Patience Metal Fab in Brooklyn Center bent up a few bars for me that didn't fit right from my roll cage components kit but we did all the welding and fitting on our cage.  If i had the cash I would have them do the full install cage but they are definitely on the high end of metal work.  When I asked around the audi/vw/porsche guys in the metro thats where they all said to go.

My buddy's girlfriend actually works at Patience, so I'm aware of them, but as you mentioned their work and cost is on the highend. I would love to have them do the full cage, but would probably be limited to just installing a semi-prefab cage for cost reasons.

  • Registered: 2023-04-07
  • Posts: 2

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Have you figured your cage out yet? I'm fairly close to you, just over the border in Wisconsin.

PMF does great work, pricey though.

I'm a certified structural welder, I have a shop and a bender.
We've built a few cages for my cars and for friends. All have passed tech without issue. Dirt cars, Road race cars, mud racers and my bros drag car certified to 8.50.

Maybe we could make a deal on partial trade on cage fab in exchange for seat time?

  • Registered: 2023-01-12
  • Posts: 13

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Mopar.minion wrote:

Have you figured your cage out yet? I'm fairly close to you, just over the border in Wisconsin.

PMF does great work, pricey though.

I'm a certified structural welder, I have a shop and a bender.
We've built a few cages for my cars and for friends. All have passed tech without issue. Dirt cars, Road race cars, mud racers and my bros drag car certified to 8.50.

Maybe we could make a deal on partial trade on cage fab in exchange for seat time?

I have not yet finished the rollcage, but been very busy with the other prep. I am definitely open to that type of a trade if we can make it make sense for both of us! Want to send me a PM and we can connect?

  • Registered: 2023-01-12
  • Posts: 13

Re: New team in MN area - Need help on the rollcage

Mopar.minion wrote:

Have you figured your cage out yet? I'm fairly close to you, just over the border in Wisconsin.

PMF does great work, pricey though.

I'm a certified structural welder, I have a shop and a bender.
We've built a few cages for my cars and for friends. All have passed tech without issue. Dirt cars, Road race cars, mud racers and my bros drag car certified to 8.50.

Maybe we could make a deal on partial trade on cage fab in exchange for seat time?

I've tried sending you a message, not sure if it made it through to you, but if you see this comment here and we can connect to discuss further.