Topic: Tires for the rain

Hi all.  What tires do teams use for the rain?  We're in the Pacific Northwest and used RS4s for the October race, which worked great.  For the upcoming April race, there's a pretty good chance it will be wet.  Keeping that in mind, any recommendations for rain tires that will make it?  We're in the Dodge Intrepid, so pretty heavy and front wheel drive.  We have a fresh set of RS4s ready to go, but adding another set of rain oriented tires would be great.

Thanks,
Scott

Re: Tires for the rain

Based on our weekend at Sonoma in December, I can confirm that RS4s work fine in rain on a heavyish FWD car (our VW Passat)- I mean, I am the slow guy on the team and was passing Miatas in the rain. We don’t bring any other tires but a spare set of RS4s regardless of weather forecast, fwiw.

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Re: Tires for the rain

We've done plenty of wet races on "normal" tires in a heavy FWD car. I don't recall what I was on for one of the particularly wet CT races, I think it was before we switched to the RS4, but I clawed back a lap from the top 10 cars before the rain started letting up and they then took it away again. That may have been back on the dunlop direzas? (i can't spell). We've done rain with the RS4s since, and they're fine.

Continental Extreme Contact DWs used to be THE wet weather tire. They changed all the models around, and I'm not sure exactly which model is the latest successor. But if you have a race that you know for sure will be wet from start to finish, those were the tires to be on. Trouble is if it starts drying out they just aren't nearly as good in the dry compared to the RS4 and similar. That's why a lot of teams that aren't in the hunt for an overall win just don't really bother with separate rain tires, the tires most are on in the dry work well enough in the wet to not add that level of complication. But if you want to experiment, have at it.

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4 (edited by duthehustle93 2023-02-20 12:07 PM)

Re: Tires for the rain

How competitive are you trying to be?

Generally speaking, an autocross-200TW - good 300TW summer tire all work well in the cold and evacuate water well. The golden child for rain is typically a continental ECS, but an RE71R (believe the new RS is supposed to also be good in the rain) or ZIII will be quicker when dry and give great wet performance. The Falken FK510 also isn't a bad choice.

Unless your trying to win, I'd save your money. You said you got a new set of RS4's, which will be fine. They're not the fastest option in the rain, but just slow your pace and they won't kill you. I don't think many, or any, of the other teams will be switching to rain tires so it's not like you'll be a roadblock by sticking to the RS4's.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: Tires for the rain

If you were happy with the RS4 in the wet then I would continue to run them.  They can be a really really poor rain tire on a very light car that struggles to build heat, but are otherwise fantastic in my experience.

The hands-down best endurance racing wet tire I have driven is the Nitto Invo.  Not because of outright grip or evacuation, but because they are stupid communicative.  They are tons of fun on a drying track because of the excellent feedback.  They are a touch slower than the NT05 in the dry, but way more versatile and longer-lasting.

As mentioned above, a dedicated rain tire never seems worth it.  If the whole weekend was going to be a monsoon then maybe that would affect tire choice, but otherwise meh.

Re: Tires for the rain

Thanks for the recommendations, it sounds like we will be fine with our RS4s. We aren't terribly competitive, but we have a shot at winning C class, so I'll have to think about that. Considering we have a 2nd set of rims, I'm tempted to put some Continentals on the extra set. Thanks again everyone.

Re: Tires for the rain

Agree with what's been said here about RS4's. Same holds true with Azenis.

However, just running new endurance tires in the rain is not the only way to get traction. We were hooking up like crazy in the rain at Sonoma this December. Ran full tread depth Azenis, lowered the ties pressure (F&R), and switched to a softer (smaller diameter) rear sway bar on the Kim Jong Elantra. We finished in 11th overall in a Hyundai Elantra. Maybe want to drop the rear bar if if using a smaller one is not an option. Overall, soften up the car for the rain.

So, there is more to rain set-up than tire selection.

--bb

Re: Tires for the rain

I ran brand new rs4s at Sonoma in December as well.  RWD solid axle wagon.  Rear tires did nothing but spin until you got to 4th gear.  Turned and braked okay, but a handful in the corners.  FWD cars and the BMWs with traction control were dominating at that race.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Tires for the rain

A longtime Lemons builder and driver told me that the Yokohama A052 is hands down the best Lemons-legal rain tire they've ever run. Price point is usually not what most Lemons people are looking for, but that's the feedback I've gotten.

YMMV...tires and brakes are the source of much subjectivity among Lemons people.

Eric Rood
Everything Bagel, 24 Hours of Lemons
eric@24hoursoflemons.com

Re: Tires for the rain

scogreen wrote:

Thanks for the recommendations, it sounds like we will be fine with our RS4s. We aren't terribly competitive, but we have a shot at winning C class, so I'll have to think about that. Considering we have a 2nd set of rims, I'm tempted to put some Continentals on the extra set. Thanks again everyone.

Something to keep in mind... the prize of winning C class is about equal to a set of tires, so financially your gambling to break even. And I guarantee you none of your coworkers will see you on the news for winning a satire race series to congratulate you when you go into work on Monday. IMO, it's hard to justify spending extra money to win a Lemons race.

billy bee wrote:

Agree with what's been said here about RS4's. Same holds true with Azenis.

However, just running new endurance tires in the rain is not the only way to get traction. We were hooking up like crazy in the rain at Sonoma this December. Ran full tread depth Azenis, lowered the ties pressure (F&R), and switched to a softer (smaller diameter) rear sway bar on the Kim Jong Elantra. We finished in 11th overall in a Hyundai Elantra. Maybe want to drop the rear bar if if using a smaller one is not an option. Overall, soften up the car for the rain.

So, there is more to rain set-up than tire selection.

--bb

Bill, you've got a lot more experience than me, so I could be wrong here, wanna hear your input if I am. Definitely agree with mechanically softening the car where possible (particularly the rear). However, I was always told to increase tire pressures when running wet... with the idea that a higher pressure pushes out the center of the tread/opens up the tread pattern and helps the tread evacuate water more efficiently.

Full Ass Racing
#455 Piñata Miata - 1990 Miata
#735 BMDollhÜr 7Turdy5i - 1990 735i

Re: Tires for the rain

duthehustle93 wrote:

it's hard to justify spending extra money to win a Lemons race.

Toto-It's called a motor race!

Re: Tires for the rain

I thought you where gonna say the prize for winning C is getting bumped to B next race lol.

Re: Tires for the rain

General G-Max all seasons work well in the rain, and are a very cost-effective rain tire if you have a spare set of rims.

14

Re: Tires for the rain

It was wet and cold for a good portion of the true 24 last fall.  I believe most of the cars were running RS4s and kept the same traction-limited pace.  A handful of cars were on Maxxis VR-1s (pretty sure) and, wow, they were much quicker. 

I'm in a pointy-end class A car and was lapped twice by two other "slower" cars in my wet stint.  When things dried out my car was quicker. 

So YMMV I suppose.

Re: Tires for the rain

duthehustle93 wrote:

Bill, you've got a lot more experience than me, so I could be wrong here, wanna hear your input if I am. Definitely agree with mechanically softening the car where possible (particularly the rear). However, I was always told to increase tire pressures when running wet... with the idea that a higher pressure pushes out the center of the tread/opens up the tread pattern and helps the tread evacuate water more efficiently.

Just catching up with this thread...

If there is lots of standing water on the track adding some PSI's to the tars may be the right move to help displace water (as you describe). However, I do everything I can to soften the car up in the wet, including lowering tar pressures. Seems like we have run at Sonoma about 6 or 7  times, usually in the rain. Only one time would I have considered raising the tire pressure. There were rivers of water running across the track in several places. Otherwise, lower pressure have worked out well.

--bb