Topic: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

My Cordoba does not run hot and I run a fixed fan that runs all the time with a stock type steel fan. It runs about 195- 200 degrees while racing and it has a 180 degree thermostat. .  I have thought about running a viscous fan which has the potential to save 30HP if its not needed.



An electric fan might be the way ( If the fan is not needed most if the time)  but that might also require some fabrication fitting in the shroud etc.. . Also the charging electrical system is all factory(  fuse block, Alternator, volt reg etc. now)


The  question are  .....

a)  do you think the motor needs a full time fixed fan to keep cool ?
b)  Does the air flow past the radiator during a race keep the motor cool enough so that the fan isn't needed all the time.
c) Are flex fans any good
d) Does any body have any experience running a stock viscous fan?

Cordoba

2 (edited by Zacks 2023-03-26 12:28 PM)

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

My understanding is most modern vehicles with electric fans do not run them over a certain mph (like 20) as the ram air is actually faster than fan speed.

With that logic you basically don't need a fan for racing,  I leave it in in case we have to idle.

Electric can't be a 30hp draw right???  Viscous fans still spin a bit When cold and have friction to the touch, so I imagine Electric would be better.

The bad radiator fan complaint is classically vehicle runs fine on the highway but overheats in traffic

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

You need a fan for racing or you will overheat in the pits.

I have a puller fan on the backside of the radiator.  The radiator has a fan switch installed and turns the fan on at about 190 degrees.  I think it only runs in the pits.

Near the fan is a fuse block with a 30 amp fuse connected to the kill switch.  The 30 AMP fuse is connected to the fan, the fan is connected to the fan switch in radiator, the fan switch goes to ground.

My car did not originally come with an electric fan.  I image all the stuff that was taken out of the car, more than makes up for adding in the fan alternator wise.  Been fine for 15 races.  Only time we have overheated is when a connector disconnected from the fan switch while we were waiting to get on track.

You should be able to find a ton of fans at the junkyard.

Team whatever_racecar #745 Volvo wagon

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

Best method is to make it stupid proof. No switches, no sensors, just on!!!! We run all of our fans constant. Javelin is a straight blade 4 , all the Saturns are wired to the ignition. The only overheat in 13 years of Lemons is when a hose clamp wasn't tightened and popped off.
No thermostat and fan on constant.
My 2cents.....
Manny

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

for racing, viscous or electric fan is good way to go. the mechanical fans are too high of a draw.

a 15A 12V fan which would be very high power is 180Watt is 1/4HP, with alternator at 50% thats 1/2HP to run a giant electric fan. at that point, can just run it full time .

besides big trucks, regular cars designed to run with no fans while moving. the minimum moving speed depends on the manufacturer. My miata was 15mph minimum, my challanger is 40mph.

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Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

Doing some digging ( got this info from Engine masters ep 20 ) .....

a metal flex fan uses about 20.3 HP

a steel fixed fan uses 29.9 HP

A thermo style viscous fan uses 14 HP



Another question - do flex fans live? or do they hand grenade? Rumer is they can come apart.  I've never had one go boom, but I haven't run many on the street and never in a endurance race.

Cordoba

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

BMW used to always put Viscous in manuals and Automatics often had fixed fans.  The RPM variation meant you were accelerating and decelerating the fan particularly when downshifting so the viscous isn't fully locked up all the time particularly at speed and that means the viscous fan isn't robbing power unless its too hot.

But electric would be my go to, mostly because you get a lot of flexibility on how to control it.

You can be fancy like newer cars where there is a pulse width modulation coming from the computer but personally I think the two speed type temperature switches are the best option powering either a single two speed fan or dual fans from many of the FWD cars.

You can switch from radiator temp, or head temps, or oil temps.  You can also use an automatic transmission kickdown switch to bypass the fan's power at full throttle which is a nice touch in a race car because you can also "de-energize" other items as you see fit at full throttle with ease.  Let your imagination be the guide there but anything electric you don't think you need at full throttle can be de-energized by simply controlling it through the step down switch.  Or energized you could blast an airhorn whilst turning off your fan if you felt like it.

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

Jimmy wrote:

My Cordoba does not run hot and I run a fixed fan that runs all the time with a stock type steel fan. It runs about 195- 200 degrees while racing and it has a 180 degree thermostat. .  I have thought about running a viscous fan which has the potential to save 30HP if its not needed.



An electric fan might be the way ( If the fan is not needed most if the time)  but that might also require some fabrication fitting in the shroud etc.. . Also the charging electrical system is all factory(  fuse block, Alternator, volt reg etc. now)


The  question are  .....

a)  do you think the motor needs a full time fixed fan to keep cool ?
b)  Does the air flow past the radiator during a race keep the motor cool enough so that the fan isn't needed all the time.
c) Are flex fans any good
d) Does any body have any experience running a stock viscous fan?

On both cars we run no thermostat (one less thing to break and it's never cold enough here to need one). On a proper cooling system with good ducting you'd be surprised how small of an e-fan you can get away with. It's just for keeping it from overheating in the pits and while idling while fixing your POS.

a) No... fan's are generally useless above 30MPH, and I might even argue make things worse above 30MPH
b) Yes, at track speed you'll run cooler and better without a fan... but you'll overheat your engine when in pits/stopped. We used to have a manual switch running our fans and I hate to admit how many times we've overheated engines by forgetting to turn on the switch in pits/garages/etc. We've recently gotten $10 two pin radiator fan switches off ebay for dirt bikes and they work great to replace the manual switch.
c) No, e-fans really aren't that hard to wire in, I think it makes them the obvious choice
d) the 735i came with a viscous fan and they ran it for a handful of races as is before we purchased it. We immediately went to an efan since we had an extra laying around. So you can run the viscous fan, but it's cheap and easy to go to an efan.

Full Ass Racing
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9 (edited by VKZ24 2023-03-28 10:42 AM)

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

duthehustle93 wrote:

We used to have a manual switch running our fans and I hate to admit how many times we've overheated engines by forgetting to turn on the switch in pits/garages/etc.

Our Integra has two factory fans (which we connected together) that are switched via the factory temp sender.  We also have an override switch that simply sends a ground to the factory fan relay to turn the fans on manually when so desired.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

Hey Thanks....I much appreciate the info.

Cordoba

Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

Jimmy wrote:

Hey Thanks....I much appreciate the info.

In regard to flex fans, one may hear a old story about them failing, it can happen but its rare, what is most common is being sliced or sent to the hospital if you slip into its path while the car is running, for this reason,you couldn't pay me to run a non factory flex,, factory flax fans hurt but don't slice like aftermarket

The rest of the info is accurate, all of it, have run all ways including no fan, you only need fans below 40mph, a clutch fan will rob half the power of a fixed fan and a electric is stupid easy to convert (and the way we do things after trying them all) go wander the junkyard for something suitable.  Bring a drill battery to test it and don't forget the connector off the donor car.

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Re: Viscous or Fixed fan Questions

Electric will use the least power, I'd definitely ditch the heavy stock fan. We use the stock fan in our 88 Firebird, no issues over heating, it is hard wired in, we bypassed the temp switch. If you run an electric, just make sure it is sealed up against the rad and get one as big as you can.

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