Topic: Rollcage - How to?

Hello everyone, I m Mel and I m new to the forums. I been in some racing events both on organizing and racing parts of it for the last 10 15 years now. I heard about 24hrs of Lemons in past but I m considering to enter it with my team now. Beyond any other problem, I m curious about the roll cage. I saw a page where it shows how it is supposed to be. Like where it needs to connect and the shape etc. But I dont know what size pipes I can use etc. Is there a cheap way to get it done by someone (in San Diego) or do we have to diy it? I m a master tech and my team is as well. So rest of the stuff should be easy. This is my biggest concern. I m open to any ideas. Thanks.

Re: Rollcage - How to?

https://24hoursoflemons.com/prices-rules/#safety


3.5.1.1     Rollbar Tubing and Spreader-Plate Specs. Minimum tubing size for cars weighing under 3000 pounds as raced is 1.50″x .120″or 1.75″x .095″. Cars weighing over 3000 pounds as raced must use a minimum tubing size of 1.75″x .120″. Properly bent, racecar-grade and -quality tubing is mandatory: no stretched or crushed bends allowed. DOM mild steel is very strongly recommended over ERW (seamed) tubing. All spreader plates must be mild steel, at least 24 square inches, and at least .125” thick.

Re: Rollcage - How to?

How not to fail: https://24hoursoflemons.com/how-to-not- … inspection

Generally if you are a good welder you can install a pre-bent cage kit ordered from online (still a lot of work to cut and weld ect, but don't have to own a tube bender)  or you can pay to have a cage installed.   Paying for someone to build/install a cage is generally not cheap.  Dunno about san Diego, but Generally.  (Doubt san Diego is magically cheaper)

If you can weld and go DIY really think out your plan of attack to have space to make your welds all the way but still have the cage close to the roof ect.

Oh and since you said your a tech, someone probably needs to own a welder on the team, probably not the kinda thing you can borrow the shop welder for, you go through  a lot of gas and wire.

4 (edited by ANkle788! 2024-09-30 11:35 AM)

Re: Rollcage - How to?

Do these prebent cages come with beveled ends? I"m guessing not. What tools are best to accomplish this fitting?
Who are good suppliers of prebent cages?
Thanks


Zacks wrote:

How not to fail:

Generally if you are a good welder you can install a pre-bent cage kit ordered from online (still a lot of work to cut and weld ect, but don't have to own a tube bender)  or you can pay to have a cage installed.   Paying for someone to build/install a cage is generally not cheap.  Dunno about san Diego, but Generally.  (Doubt san Diego is magically cheaper)

If you can weld and go DIY really think out your plan of attack to have space to make your welds all the way but still have the cage close to the roof ect.

Oh and since you said your a tech, someone probably needs to own a welder on the team, probably not the kinda thing you can borrow the shop welder for, you go through  a lot of gas and wire.

Re: Rollcage - How to?

ANkle788! wrote:

Do these prebent cages come with beveled ends? I"m guessing not. What tools are best to accomplish this fitting?
Who are good suppliers of prebent cages?
Thanks

When we got our cage from Roll Cage Components, it did have some fish mouthed edges (many people have used Roll Cage Components for pre-bent cages). If they are missing or something happens, you can use a hand grinder, plasma cutter or even a tubing notcher. It depends on what tools you have. If you are not 100% comfortable doing this, I recommend paying someone to do it. This is one place you don't skimp.

1992 Saturn SL2 (retired) - Elmo's Revenge -  Class B winner, Heroic Fix winner x2
1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner

6 (edited by Zacks 2024-09-30 04:11 PM)

Re: Rollcage - How to?

Tubing notcher can be purchased.  Don't own one so no info on that. Probably great if you get the angle math perfect

I used a mix of grinder and sawzall, and then did final shaping with a carbide burr in a die grinder.  Lots of test fitting and making small adjustments.  Repeat until it fits nice

I really tried to avoid making any gaps to fill so welds would be easy strong and look clean.

Our kit also came with gussets to weld into corners but they where all 90* and cage has a few non 90* intersections so I made gussets out of scrap plate.  Used a few of 90s.  Gussets are not required but are recommended and we wanted to check as many "recommended" safety items as we could.  Trying to keep the judges happy lol.

Most of our pipes on the pre bet kit came extra long and you cut them down to needed size so it actually fits your car perfectly.

7 (edited by DelinquentRacer 2024-09-30 04:51 PM)

Re: Rollcage - How to?

https://www.ozhpv.org.au/shed.html
You can find a .exe file here that will print out a notch profile
based on tubing sizes, and intersection angles.
Then basic tools can be used to complete the fish mouth notch.

Link to file https://www.ozhpv.org.au/files/tubemiter.exe
It does not function in Freedom Units, though. If you are Metrically challenged,
I'm pretty sure you can find a similar program for your Imperial-based brain.

Added value edit: Article on notching tubing: https://www.kitplanes.com/tube-notching-made-easy/

Capt. Delinquent Racing
RUST-TITE XR4Ti - '21 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA  I Got Screwed
The One & Only Taurus V8 SHO #31(now moved on to another OG Delinquent)
'17 Vodden the Hell - (No) Hope for the Future Award, '08 AMP Survivor, '08 ARSE-FREEZE-APALOOZA Mega-Cheater

Re: Rollcage - How to?

DelinquentRacer wrote:

https://www.ozhpv.org.au/shed.html
You can find a .exe file here that will print out a notch profile
based on tubing sizes, and intersection angles.
Then basic tools can be used to complete the fish mouth notch.

Link to file https://www.ozhpv.org.au/files/tubemiter.exe
It does not function in Freedom Units, though. If you are Metrically challenged,
I'm pretty sure you can find a similar program for your Imperial-based brain.

Added value edit: Article on notching tubing: https://www.kitplanes.com/tube-notching-made-easy/

A comment on that article (from 2015)  has another online tool created by Lee Corney, but:

"After much research, it turns out, unfortunately, that ZIP alias Lee Bennett Corney from Las Vegas passed away suddenly (Lee Bennett Corney, age 68, of Las Vegas, Nevada passed away on Tuesday, January 3, 2023/ "

The tool originally disappeared, but there's another comment with a resource noted at archive(dot)org which still seems to work and it's also highly recommended:

https://web.archive.org/web/20220524070 … om/ttn_js/

This looks like primarily for fine work, like for recumbent bicycles and airframes, but it never hurts to have access to the best tools - especially free online ;-) .

Re: Rollcage - How to?

We used a pre-bent, U-weld cage for our 1996 BMW 328i convertible from Rhodes Race Cars (Indiana). It was freight shipped to the SF Bay Area, California.

The main hoop, halo, and front down bars come pre-bent. The rest of the pieces were either notched on one end or square-cut on both ends. Also with the kit were six 1/8-inch base plates. Because E36 convertibles have HUGE n thick  rockers, I bought a piece of 24x24 1/8-inch plate and bent/fabricated plinths for the main hoop and front down bar base plates.

My order of installation was: Main hoop base plates + plinths, main hoop, halo, front base plates +2 plinths, front down bars, rear stays +2 base plates, main hoop diagonal & harness bar, then door bars, and finally gussets per the Lemons guide. I clearanced the driver's door and mandrel bent the door bars to flare out into the door to ease ingress & egress. I did not install a front down bar crossbar.

You'll have to be mindful about when is the appropriate time to fully weld or just tack weld a piece. Some parts are easier to fully weld BEFORE adding the next piece. For example, once the landing locations of the main hoop and front down bars were settled, I removed them to fully weld the base plates and plinths. Then they were tacked back into place.

Tools used:
Miller 211 MIG welder with 0.030" wire and 75/25 gas mix
DeWalt grinders - one for cut-offs and the other for flap discs.
Bauer (Harbor Freight) portable bandsaw mounted on a SWAG Offroad bandsaw stand
Bauer portable bandsaw mounted on a Hercules "chop saw" stand. (Game changer!).
Woodward Fab Tubing Notcher with a Milwaukee hole saw.
Milwaukee 1/2-inch variable speed drill
Digital Angle Finder
Manual adjustable angle (lockable)
Harbor Freight 30-ton press & SWAG Offroad 30-ton brake (to bend base plates)
.. assorted magnets, hose clamps, and ratchet straps. The latter was used to suspend the halo in place with its union on the main hoop tack-welded while the front down bars were fitted.

Working at a leisurely pace, it took me a total of about three weeks. The base plates and plinths were a pain in the azz!

Re: Rollcage - How to?

Unless somebody on your team is a good fabrication guy, go pay someone to do it. And no it is the most expensive part of this series. We paid around $3600 for our cage, (years ago) it is 1.75" DOM with more than required tubing. The worst thing you can do is pay all you money, show up at an event and fail tech. Best advice...buy a car that is done. plenty for sale.

"get up and get your grandma outta here"