Re: Refueling regs.

Tajracing45 wrote:

I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong but why not just flip the visor up?  In the future since full faced helmets will be mandatory, I would assume that full faced means full faced, visors included, eh?

At my height (6'-3) it's a challenge for my helmet to clear.  Add the visor sticking up and it's not gonna work in our car.

AFAIK, 'full-faced' is designed with the 'chin bar' as the portion to protect your face, not the shield per say.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Refueling regs.

Full face can also be to protect your face (chin area) and you can buy helmets that are full and do not come with shields. The shield isnt protecting you in a crash, just briefly in a fire i guess.

Anyway, I have been to tracks that say no motorized vehicles but you get there and they are buzzin all around. Wondering if anyone thats been to Stafford can remember if people had them.

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Re: Refueling regs.

VKZ24:  Perhaps you could just take a sledgehammer to the bottom of the roof to allow for more clearance?

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Re: Refueling regs.

Tajracing45 wrote:

... why not just flip the visor up?

If you drive a car on track with an airbag (outside of Lemons, obviously), there is a good reason to either keep the faceshield (the clear thing you look through) either closed, open a tiny crack, or fully removed. Apparently an open face shield can cause the airbag to enter the eyeport, causing severe trauma to the eyes. Further, the "visor" (the black plastic thing over the eyeport that shields your eyes from the sun) can be caught by the airbag, and these should be removed as well. YMMV.

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30 (edited by Tajracing45 2009-07-07 05:38 PM)

Re: Refueling regs.

EvergreenDan wrote:
Tajracing45 wrote:

... why not just flip the visor up?

If you drive a car on track with an airbag (outside of Lemons, obviously), there is a good reason to either keep the faceshield (the clear thing you look through) either closed, open a tiny crack, or fully removed. Apparently an open face shield can cause the airbag to enter the eyeport, causing severe trauma to the eyes. Further, the "visor" (the black plastic thing over the eyeport that shields your eyes from the sun) can be caught by the airbag, and these should be removed as well. YMMV.

Ahhh...eyeshield.  Thanks!  My mistake...
I was asking why just flip the visor...errrr...eyeshield... up instead of removing it completely and loosing it in a closet like mentioned before.  FWIW, I drive with mine down just in case assorted paintballs or Lemons are thrown into the car.  :-)

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Re: Refueling regs.

EvergreenDan wrote:
Tajracing45 wrote:

... why not just flip the visor up?

If you drive a car on track with an airbag (outside of Lemons, obviously), there is a good reason to either keep the faceshield (the clear thing you look through) either closed, open a tiny crack, or fully removed. Apparently an open face shield can cause the airbag to enter the eyeport, causing severe trauma to the eyes. Further, the "visor" (the black plastic thing over the eyeport that shields your eyes from the sun) can be caught by the airbag, and these should be removed as well. YMMV.

The other worse and more likely problem of racing a car with an airbag and having a full face helmet is the airbag blowing and catching the "chin" of the helmet and snapping your head back.  This is an issue that was examined by both NASA and the SCCA with the proliferation of HPDEs, I don't know what the result was, however If I were taking an Airbag equipped car on the race track I would pull the airbag fuse.

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Re: Refueling regs.

RogueLeader wrote:
EvergreenDan wrote:
Tajracing45 wrote:

... why not just flip the visor up?

If you drive a car on track with an airbag (outside of Lemons, obviously), there is a good reason to either keep the faceshield (the clear thing you look through) either closed, open a tiny crack, or fully removed. Apparently an open face shield can cause the airbag to enter the eyeport, causing severe trauma to the eyes. Further, the "visor" (the black plastic thing over the eyeport that shields your eyes from the sun) can be caught by the airbag, and these should be removed as well. YMMV.

The other worse and more likely problem of racing a car with an airbag and having a full face helmet is the airbag blowing and catching the "chin" of the helmet and snapping your head back.  This is an issue that was examined by both NASA and the SCCA with the proliferation of HPDEs, I don't know what the result was, however If I were taking an Airbag equipped car on the race track I would pull the airbag fuse.

As I understand it, the airbag is not designed to work at track speeds anyway.  Most people I know have removed theirs.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

33 (edited by RogueLeader 2009-07-08 05:48 AM)

Re: Refueling regs.

VKZ24 wrote:

As I understand it, the airbag is not designed to work at track speeds anyway.  Most people I know have removed theirs.

The airbag will definitely work properly at track speeds, and anything keeping you from hitting the steeringwheel definitely helps, however if you have a harness in your car then the only things it will hit are your arms and the bottom of your helmet (depending how close to the wheel you sit), which is where the issue comes in.  As well if you are just using the factory belts like in an HPDE event that airbag can definitely blow your head back depending on where it connects with your helmet in a wreck.  The other thing is Airbags can be set off by incidents that don't nessicarily disable the car, but the airbag going off in your face will completely screw you up as you will need to maintain control of your car or just make every attempt to GTFO of the way.

Either way if I were full time racing a newer car, I'd remove the bags, but if I was just tracking my daily driver like for an HPDE, I'm not about to go tearing up my dash, I'd just pull the fuse.  In real life /street situatons airbags do work very well, 11 years of being a firefighter and cleaning up car accidents has taught me that.

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34 (edited by VKZ24 2009-07-08 06:03 AM)

Re: Refueling regs.

RogueLeader wrote:

[The airbag will definitely work properly at track speeds, and anything keeping you from hitting the steeringwheel definitely helps...

I can't argue with you (intelligently) because I have no data to back it up.  However since I've never seen one in a real race car one may *assume* they don't work at those speeds?

Like you said, with a proper harness the air bad won't help your head anyway.

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
'93 Acura Integra - No VTEC Yo!

Re: Refueling regs.

VKZ24 wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

[The airbag will definitely work properly at track speeds, and anything keeping you from hitting the steeringwheel definitely helps...

I can't argue with you (intelligently) because I have no data to back it up.  However since I've never seen one in a real race car one may *assume* they don't work at those speeds?

Like you said, with a proper harness the air bad won't help your head anyway.

I don't have the data to back it up either (too lazy to search) but this is what I recall.  NASCAR actually looked at using Airbags (although it may have just been lip service to the safety ninnies) and concluded they are 100% not useful in a full out race car because:

1) A driver strapped in with a 5/6 point and HANS is NOT going to hit the steering wheel, and if he does the car is bent so bad that he is dead anyway airbag or not. 
2) The drivers vision is blocked even only momentarily and in that moment he can lose whatever control he may have left (important in an accident like an offset frontal collision).
3) In the same vein as #2 an airbag deployment would create panic and confusion in a situation that needs as little of it as posible. 

The airbag absolutely deploys quick enough to protect one from hitting the wheel at any speed (obviously it cant overcome the laws of physics, if you hit something at 150mph youre screwed airbag or not, it just may help you leave a better looking corpse), however the belt system in a race car usually wouldn't let someone come close enough so there is no reason to have it (unless you sit super close).  If youre using the standard 3 point belts and doing an HPDE in your car the airbag can definitely still save your life, however the trade off is that if it catches the bottom of your helmet it could also snap your head back with enough force to shatter your spine.  If you have 5 point belts this can still be an issue depending upon how close to the wheel you sit.

My personal opinion, based on what I'e read and seen, I'd only be on the track with a 5 point and I would disable the airbag.  Thats the safest way to go.

Tom Lomino - Proud to be a 23x Lemons Loser, 3x Class B, and 1x IOE Winner!
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Re: Refueling regs.

The airbag in a racecar discussion was actually spawned from the FIA.  They wanted airbags in open wheel cars to protect the drivers.  The designers couldn't make airbags work for the reasons above but developed the HANS device to help keep the drivers heads attached to their bodies.  I was at an SCCA Safety symposium where one of the designers spoke about the development.

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