Topic: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

Well, here ya' go.

We didn't get the martian "cobra head" mounted on the roof.
Also missed the sound effects of the death ray.
~ but we did get the enviro-suits and some color-appropriate paint.
...Phil was concerned confused and afraid to ask what the theme was - somehow he missed the alien in the passenger seat.
Zero laps! (and a shake of the head)

Mechanically, we got a car together, but as it's kinda hard to thrash on a car outside in the rain in Sactown in the winter, no matter how much gear you pile on...
It was "just" together. untried, untested and untrue.

What could possibly go wring?

I got drivers from San Diego Autocross club - SDAD, to come up, make an attempt at subverting them from driving FTD sports racers, Lotus Sevens and Motocross to something more meaningful, Like a Turbo-aircooled bug. Sum total of racing experience of all drivers? probably close to 100 years. yeah, they are old farts. woohoo!

Thrashed all week b4 the event. just like most everyone else. Got the new guys involved/invested in the car by thrashing on things like bleeding the brakes, sealing holes in the firewall and running some last-minute electrical - on Friday at the track.
Painted the theme late Friday...

Then got on track. Saturday.
Under yellow for 6 minutes, got to finally open it up enough to see the boost numbers. Wow. With the 255/60-15's on the back, tached out from Just Before Riverside all the way down the Dragstrip. At the end was looking at boost. Crap. 12psi. a bit of ping on sudden throttle. Mixture looks good though (Innovate LM-1 on-board)
Work with it and do a retard and rejet on the 1st driver change - maybe @ 45 minutes.
Green flag.
Mid lap one, get to romp on it with the red/white RX-7. he doesn't get smaller in the windsheild! Damn and wow!
Traffic and weird flagging in the sweeper.
Tached out again on the front straight.
T-boned in Turn 2-3 "The offramp" - the usual dingbat doing a "Hero" move up the inside on the first lap - I had thought I was far enough back in the pack to avoid that...
Demolished a tire.

Pits:
Organize "the guys" to find an ANYthing tire in size enormous, knowing that I can't afford to drop diameter (being Tached out down the entire dragstrip)
Some hits, but the tire guys don't want to stretch something too small onto the 8" rim.
~thanks everyone that offered tires!~
Give up and go for the spare Star-Specs for the fronts.
205/50-15. Tiny in comparison to the T/A's!
Re-jet, Retard and get the next driver installed... about 1:30 into the day

Track version two:
Newbie driver, Lotus Seven driver. looks good! Sounds good! Turns a 2:46 on lap 5 of 7
oops, yeah, that was seven...
smoke everywhere, oil everywhere. 1 qt in the blow-by catcher. Head nuts in the rocker cover, not on the studs. Push-rod jammed between the rocker and the side of the hole.

Thrash to 'right' things, get it all back together about 5 minutes after the flag.
Turn it over by hand. swish,swish,swish, choof, clank.
we've a sticking valve and still no compression in one of them cylinders not associated to the clanking valve.

Very distraught throwing in of towel. We've no spares, and the new guys aren't yet Lemons spec mat'l

come to arrangement with the guys (I'll be very poor for a long time)

Walk the pits a bunch, try and get some sleep.

Sunday try and rally enough support in Peoples' curse to crush the guy who hit us and didn't bother to check us out or apologize (until coerced late Sunday)

Walk the pits and watch Spank's team work and work and work.
Admire many others who've got issues and problems - and spares.

end of day, great awards ceremony, thanks Jay and crew!

It was an OK weekend - we'll be back with the bug, it's a fantastic platform - but I NEED to redo the diff, and I gotta get a rev-limiter.

Seeya all at Infineon!

Thanks Larry, Rod and Thomas for attempting to be the first drivers of the Super-Bug!
Thanks, Mike R and Kevin for helping with the pre-Friday thrash
Thanks, too to Amanda (my g/f) for providing support and comistables to a huge group of miscreants located around the Spank camp!
Thanks Wendy and Bruce for a bitchin' generator.
And yeah, huge amounts of warmth to anyone who offered comiseration, condolances, help or whatever to us during the weekend.

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

Again reviewed the video - I hope Rod doesn't see this, but with the small meats on we were hitting 7000 and holding 6-plus in a motor not designed for over 5500.

the issues of no-torque on the head nuts was probably NOT the build after all.

I'll post pics of the internals next weekend

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

got an e-mail from #1 newbie driver, one who consistently offered "Make sure the other guys get to drive before I drive"

He says "After getting home, having a hot shower and sitting down to reflect, I had a good time this weekend" (He got back to San Diego at 5pm Sunday)

That'd be Larry Dennstedt, Dennstedt's Auto repair.
Straight-up one of the best people I know.

Blatant advert here, but if you are in San Diego and ever need a repair shop he's at 41st and El Cajon Blvd 619-284-4911

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou … 96,,0,5.15

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

And probably moments before, I got a very polite and thankful email from the only other driver that got on track -

Summed up pretty well here:

Hey Mike
well things did not go as hoped
I would have stayed and driven the limo but Thomas wanted to go.

Thanks to Amanda for the splendid food and your mom for her very 
pleasant company
and Mike (our tow-driver Mike Ross, who can't afford to race at all) for all his hard work and help and thanks to you for you 
herculean effort.
I know it must have been difficult doing all that work and seeing the 
motor go.
but if you never try something  . .. . . . ...
I will call and say hi tomorrow.
best Rod (Rod Lindgren)

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

crazymike wrote:

Again reviewed the video - I hope Rod doesn't see this, but with the small meats on we were hitting 7000 and holding 6-plus in a motor not designed for over 5500.

the issues of no-torque on the head nuts was probably NOT the build after all.

I'll post pics of the internals next weekend

Chromo pushrods + dual valve springs. Balance everything. You'll be able to do 7000 all day. What rear end gear were you running? We have a 3.88 and 4.125 - I think that the 4.125 is probably enough with star specs, even with them being shorter than stock.

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

Zachreligious wrote:

Chromo pushrods + dual valve springs. Balance everything. You'll be able to do 7000 all day. What rear end gear were you running? We have a 3.88 and 4.125 - I think that the 4.125 is probably enough with star specs, even with them being shorter than stock.

It appears to have the pushrods - or at least Empi...
nice valve springs and caps - pretty anyhow, I'll see if they are dual when I tear down

what engine are you running? 1600dp or 1.7 with the porsche heads? I've only 8mm studs and it's a "universal" case which I've been tiold only takes 8mm studs w/o serious hassle.

Rear end was:
"107mph through the traps at 7 grand" according to prior owner
-on Mickey Thompson Drags 205/60-15's that should have been a very similar rollout to the T/A's M/T's theoretically are 82" I know the T/A's are 769 t/m
  do the math - 5500 = 76mph
  Star spec @ 904 turns/mile and T/A @ 769t/m
  more math - Star spec @ 5500 = 64mph

Final engine-to-track ratio of ?? I come up with 5.70:1 which means my math is wrong - tho' there is no "Straight-thru" on a dub trans...
Any idea what the diff is by that?
I've theoretically a stock 4-speed 912/901 box, except the spool and diff. It would have come from a sportmatic.

So my driver was instructed to "peddle it" @ 5500-5800 - Vid tells he did that not so much and I really can't blame him - he was a sitting duck at that speed and doing that most of the way 'round...
...I was having issues @ 76mph

I've a 4.43 on the way... $95 and within residual value budget.

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

We have a 1600 and one that's a little bigger - all Type 1 stuff though.

5.7! I bet that thing took off like a rocket. Definitely a drag racing piece, I don't think that's any kind of stock ratio. 4.43 should be a little better, might still be a little short unless you can get the engine to last at 6000 rpm.

We pick up transaxles for around $100 each here, so we've collected a few and picked out the best two with different ratios. I think I'll probably put the 4.125 back in unless I can get the turbo working.

8 (edited by crazymike 2010-12-09 10:03 AM)

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

WOOHOO !I just scored a stock diff as said above (7:31) AND I just scored a f-ugly 912 5 speed (With same 7:31) Oh, and the word would be SCORED... about the same $$ as the diff! - mostly because it looks like it came out of a Katrina-Car (I hope it works at all).

... the car has a 901/914 sportmatic 4-speed in it, so the pan mods are all there. It'll just be a matter of swapping/mod'ing the output flanges.

The Calc's with stock gearing make it so I should run the star-specs all around at Sears and the T/A's at T-hill and B-willow

9 (edited by Spank 2010-12-20 12:10 PM)

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

yea, but did you fix that crack in the rear end?

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/3785203/RearEndCrack_detail.JPG

[fixed link]

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

OOH,  My eyes!

Jim C.
If God meant for us to race, we'd all have baggy Nomex skin.
08TMS.09NL.10GM, SP, NL.11SP, NL.12SP, VIR, NL.13GM, NJ.14NJ, VIR, WGI.15AB.16GM.17NCM.18GM.19...

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

I'm working on fixing that crack! At least lightening the car the easy way - diet.
the Link's bad (fortunately) - I had to search it
- some people should NOT be allowed to own a camera!
and THAT is why our eyes are on the front of our head!

Zach, I'm looking at 6000 rev limit... mostly for reliability.
I've not seen anything that says prolonged 7k is a reliably good idea for a type 1 case.
I'd be willing to theorize 6300, but want to attempt a finish before guaranteeing another down-in-flames.

It looks like the copper head gaskets are the only way to go? As in I can use those and blow up w/o killing the heads a bit more often?

I'm in the market for age-appropriate bumpers, anyone?

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

6000 or 7000 will last if everything is balanced, assuming the engine even makes power that high. Ours never has, so we shift around 5000-5500. Stock valve springs float before that though, our first race we were shifting around 4800 - when you could hear them float and start to miss.

I'd try to fix the gearing, with your forced induction, you shouldn't need anymore than 5000 with the right gearing. Try running a 3.88 or 4.125 with 225/50/15 star specs. You'll pick up more time in the corners than you'll lose on top speed - and you'll brake better also.

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

Hey what year would be period correct I have a few vw shops I work with maybe I can rustle something up for you,

Duck Die nasty Button turibble 13  60 somthinish  Snowballs Chance in Hell 85 MR2
The Skankaway Anti-Toe-Fungal 500  16th  WOOHOO
Arsesweat apaoooza 2011  90th Arsesweat 2012 36th
Sears pointless 2011 47th 2012 118th

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

Don't waste your time trying to run a turbo w/8mm studs.
They Will NOT hold up.
Gotta go with the 10mm studs. Keep your Compression ratio no higher than 8 to 1.
Also, stay away from the EMPI Chromoly pushrods. they used to be fine, but the last couple sets I've used must have had some soft metal on the ballends. ALL of them buried themselves into the rocker cups. I switched to Manton's from Scat, and have had zero failures since.

J.B. Bugs Racing
1973 VW Super Beetle....Yeah,yeah I know - It's Not a racecar.
2010 Horas de Cuba del Norte -First in class C, The Ugly, 23rd overall!

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

if you're feeling brave, have you balanced the engine? it'll help get your reliability up at higher revs.

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

bossnova wrote:

Hey what year would be period correct I have a few vw shops I work with maybe I can rustle something up for you,

Got Bumpers! Woohoo! off a '62 but they'll work fine. with a bit of re-engineering to redirect/redistribute the loads...

Also got a spare trans - and a spare diff to match!

benevolent donor parts can be almost anything:
It's a serious frankenbug - Front end is '64 link-pin rear may or may not be '68 IRS parts with Datsun 510 halfshafts grafted in - the trans is Porsche 901/914 box (912) with modified output flanges. Rear brakes stock, front brakes CB wide fives for L/P the variety of engines are all 1600dp pancakes.  (3 of them) unknown starter motor but it sure looks like the one from my wbx. 200mm stock flywheel.

Things of note I'm missing and need: Good steering box. Spare DGV. Spare rear drums. Spare Wide-five 15x7 and/or 15x6 wheels. Spare distributor. I'd also not mind having spare exhaust manifold stuff - the crap antlers and stuff from the rear-exit back (I frankenweld them into a system that fits my needs)

For the most part I'm set OK for a race or two, at least 'til I get some miles under it!

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

jbbugs wrote:

Don't waste your time trying to run a turbo w/8mm studs.
They Will NOT hold up.
Gotta go with the 10mm studs. Keep your Compression ratio no higher than 8 to 1.
Also, stay away from the EMPI Chromoly pushrods. they used to be fine, but the last couple sets I've used must have had some soft metal on the ballends. ALL of them buried themselves into the rocker cups. I switched to Manton's from Scat, and have had zero failures since.

I Have actually no idea what's inside - It came off the truck and into the bug as I got it! THe chromo' look pushrods looked like the ones in the Empi bag on the wall, could be anyones though. It has unknown make 8mm studs, hard to tell more 'til I disassemble.
I've too many conflicting stories RE 10mm vs 8mm studs. I'm going to chat with Low Bugget on this once I've taken everything apart.

As for balance - yeah we'll see - as said b4 I've never been inside this one!
... but I do have access to a shop so can do for free, otherwise the $$ expense and be honest won't fly.

Merry Christmas!

18 (edited by bossnova 2010-12-27 11:19 AM)

Re: Team-ing with bad Ideas, Martian Invasion Beetle

what size rear drums  got a vw # on old ones? five hole ?60-67 appear to be all the same I can get a pair of them gratis let me know

Duck Die nasty Button turibble 13  60 somthinish  Snowballs Chance in Hell 85 MR2
The Skankaway Anti-Toe-Fungal 500  16th  WOOHOO
Arsesweat apaoooza 2011  90th Arsesweat 2012 36th
Sears pointless 2011 47th 2012 118th