51

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

We may send a car from our fleet to Rockingham in March to see what it's all about...

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

52 (edited by troubleonwheels 2009-08-04 12:22 PM)

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

OK, I HAVE ANSWERS FOR ALL OF YOU.  I'll do my best to not make this a cluster$%(#.

The big dilema seems to be residual value, so I"ll tackle that one first.  Professional.Dreamer and I and a couple other people have been whacking it out over email, and here is the final result: Bring a $500 car to Chump Car. 

The Lemons residual value was created so people could fix their broke-ass rigs, but many (including me) took it as a means to upgrade their cars.  If those upgrades have pushed you over $500, you'll be getting penalty laps in ChumpCar.

Having said that, if you've replaced broken tie rods and suspension bushings and engines and transmissions and WHATEVER with good used parts (junkyard, craigslist etc) then ChumpCar doesn't even look at it.  How are they to know?  So they give the open door on that one.  If you've replaced key suspension or steering parts with new stock and it was cheap, it'll likely only get a passing glance, and you'll be fine (not so for engines/trannys, obviously).  Bring documentation.  That's within the spirit of $500 crap can racing.  But, if you've upgraded to poly or heim joints or you have a shiny new racing whatever, expect to be penalized

A quote from the email string that sums it up: "But don't assume that if you BS'd your way through Lemons, that you will be able to BS your way through Chumpcar."

$500 cars people, well documented, too. 

The rules verbatim:

4.3. Approved Post-Race Parts Replacement and Vehicle Value Determination (Previously Section 5.6):



4.3.1. All cars entering Safety & Technical Inspection in any ChumpCar World Series event shall have a full and complete value of $500 or less. This $500 value, as detailed and discussed in Sections 4.1 and 4.2 of the ChumpCar World Series Rules, is less whatever cost-reduction sales you can document and/or all approved and specified safety items. The $500 value is regardless of past racing use in any other series or event. You either have a $500 crap-can race car or you don't.



4.3.2. After any previous ChumpCar World Series (or other) racing event, teams may replace any worn, broken, ventilated, impaled, defective or bent-beyond-all-recognition parts on their car -- anything -- without affecting the value of the car so long as it's a used or junkyard part and it’s OEM and it's 100% stock. No new parts; no aftermarket crap; no OEM part that's been modified or upgraded in any way… and no swapped parts just because they fit. Everything has to be OEM and 100% stock and well used to qualify for the no-added-value pass. It would serve all teams to keep their junkyard or CraigsList receipts.

            4.3.2.1. For vehicles with non-original powertrain swaps (e.g. – 1988 Yugo with 350c.i. V-8), we don’t want to discourage creative engineering… so… used/OEM/stock powertrain parts replacements are allowed provided you can prove that your vehicle did participate in a ChumpCar World Series event prior to the parts replacement with the same or comparable powertrain swap installed. If you can’t prove it, we’ll have to inspect your car thoroughly… but once that’s done,

you’ll have the proof needed for the next time. It’s pretty simple, really!



4.3.3. Other than replacing or repairing necessary and approved safety items listed in Section 4.2 of the ChumpCar World Series Rules (such as brake pads, hoses or other operation-critical parts), Teams are allowed a maximum allowance of $50 of non-OEM replacement parts after every race. Want some Nylon bushings to tighten up that suspension of yours? If you can get them for $50, fine – if not, rethink your plan. Teams are advised to have solid documentation for parts purchased (with dates on all receipts) and realize that once the $50 is gone, you've spent your wad. That's all you can do until the next race. If we find any trick racing crap on your car that isn’t within the $50… you're toast.



4.3.4. If you’ve built a legal car (under $500 value), and you can keep it legal (under $500 value), and you’d like to avoid having to go through Technical Inspection at every race… teams that have successfully completed a ChumpCar inspection and an event without any ChumpCheck penalties may request that

their vehicle be assigned a fixed “LESS THAN $500 VALUE” -- that is, if you’re going to race that same POS again.



4.3.5. Section 4.3.4 refers ONLY to Technical inspection. All cars must undergo a Safety inspection at every event.



4.3.6. Requests must be filed using the Official ChumpCar “LESS THAN $500 VALUE” Form (available on-line or at ChumpCar Tech Inspection).



4.3.7. Any entrant, team or vehicle receiving an approved “LESS THAN $500 VALUE” and is subsequently found to have added components that bring the value of the vehicle in excess of $500 (otherwise known as cheating-after-the-fact) will be penalized $50 and the funds donated to charity. Additionally, the car will be issued an immediate 25 lap penalty at whatever event they are entered in and the car will be refused a fixed value approval in the future.



4.3.8. “LESS THAN $500 VALUE” approvals may be rescinded by ChumpCar at any time.



4.4. What Section 4.3 means is this… we’re very serious about a $500 value. Don’t screw with us and we won’t screw with you.

Bob, the engineering award is a very straight-forward award.  Any engineering feat will be analyzed and rated.  Nothing about banned or dangerous, nothing about heroics.  If you built something very cool to make your car faster/better, you're in contention.  Gimmics (such as our windmill =pointless) will be looked at but really won't be in contention, unless they work.

The midwest is simply a 'can we do it' evaluation, along with cost of  tracks.  I know John has been working incredibly hard to try and get everywhere, but in the end it's a numbers game.

Bongle, as I understand it Lemons is done expanding.  That is where the motivation for ChumpCar came in - to service the under-serviced areas, and that's the motivation for ChumpCar's 'no-compete' rule. 

As for entrant choices, I haven't heard an official word,  but based on my experiences so far I'd bet heavily on the choice being made based on quality of race experience for everyone less than theme.  Wanna race a 59 Edsel?  You'll have a lot of convincing in ChumpCar and are a shoe-in at Lemons, that's my bet (totally a bet, though.  No word yet)

Jer, PIR is a fast, fast track and this is a full 24 hour race.  It should be a hell of an opener and I've not been more excited since my first race, ever.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Bongle, as I understand it Lemons is done expanding.  That is where the motivation for ChumpCar came in - to service the under-serviced areas, and that's the motivation for ChumpCar's 'no-compete' rule.

You guys should come to Canada.  Specifically, Shannonville.  One of our cars is kept literally minutes away from the track.  Its a low-rent track in the middle of nowhere (but fairly close to Hamilton, Toronto, Buffalo, Ottawa, and Montreal) with lots of space and lots of runoff area.

Car to Pit telemetry (OBD2, GPS, and analog inputs) with little more than a phone, router, and laptop.  It's not MacGuyver, it's WifiLapper (forum | facebook)

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Well shit, I'm sunk then. I lost my documentation folder somewhere (really - I have no reason to lie. Look at my car next race and see for yourself!). I have all costs saved in spreadsheets, but no receipts to back them up. *shrug*

The Homer: Powerful like a gorilla, yet soft and yielding like a Nerf ball.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Our car's only performance upgrade since the first race is adjustable lower control arms I made for about $10.

Otherwise, we have just kept patching it up mechanically.

Safety wise, we have changed seats, harnesses, added a cool system various crap there.

Our car appreciated a bit after the first race with a residual slightly higher than our actual build cost.

We have received a $350 residual each time.  Having been given a rule like:

4.3.2. After any previous ChumpCar World Series (or other) racing event, teams may replace any worn, broken, ventilated, impaled, defective or bent-beyond-all-recognition parts on their car -- anything -- without affecting the value of the car so long as it's a used or junkyard part and it’s OEM and it's 100% stock. No new parts; no aftermarket crap; no OEM part that's been modified or upgraded in any way… and no swapped parts just because they fit. Everything has to be OEM and 100% stock and well used to qualify for the no-added-value pass. It would serve all teams to keep their junkyard or CraigsList receipts.

Many repairs wouldn't even require a residual. 

What about repairs during the race?  We are on our 3rd clutch.  First one died during the first race and got replaced by a house brand parts store clutch.

What about cars that are "works in progress?"  Lots of teams do what they can before the deadline but are rarely finished.

If I show up with a $300 car and stuff left to sell, I should be able to retain the $150 I didn't spend plus I can still sell off stuff.  Would I get shafted by the $50 max cap and then get the additional $50 fine + 25 penalty laps if I use my remaining $150?

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

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Re: Chumpcar Race Series

troubleonwheels wrote:

The midwest is simply a 'can we do it' evaluation, along with cost of  tracks.  I know John has been working incredibly hard to try and get everywhere, but in the end it's a numbers game.

There is a track that I've heard is great(All the track days I hear about are when I'm working) just outside of Chicago in Joliet, but its called a countryclub track so I'm pretty sure track rental fees are up there.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Troy - you always have a "what if."  Let's get to the bottom line for Lemons or any other series: is it a $500 crap-can racer or not?  No? Then it's outside the rules.

"Age only matters if you're a cheese."  Helen Hayes

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

In the FAQ it does mention Gateway, so there might be hope for the Mid-West just yet.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Troy, it sounds like you guys have done everything right, for both race series.  Well within the spirit. as to...

If I show up with a $300 car and stuff left to sell, I should be able to retain the $150 I didn't spend plus I can still sell off stuff.  Would I get shafted by the $50 max cap and then get the additional $50 fine + 25 penalty laps if I use my remaining $150?

the answer is documentation documentation documentation.  A $350 car is just that.  Spend your remaining $150 then you have a $500 car.  Finish a chumpcar race and spend $50 more, you're still in the rules, as I read it.

Repairs at-track are simple: follow the same rules.  If you break something, replace it with a used one.  If no used is available, get a new one but keep your documentation.  If you exceed $500 car value expect to get dinged at the next race (actually, $550 after completing one race).  If you blow your 250k mile small block and drive to the nearest napa and get a crate engine, expect to be claimed at the end of the race. 

LTDscott, you guys are a 'known' commodity.  Without documentation your car will certainly be scrutinized very closely in tech, but it helps to have a car that people have seen progress and generally know about.  If you guys know you have a $500 car don't worry about it.  If not, think about what could be done to make it a $500 car, or be honest in judging and take your lumps in the form of penalty laps.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

FYI... looks like the real site is up and running www.ThatOtherSeries.com

Can't wait for Portland

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

FreeRange wrote:

FYI... looks like the real site is up and running www.ThatOtherSeries.com

Can't wait for Portland

And a Canadian date, at Shannonville...for you Yankees, it's a flat, technical track that's pretty much perfect for Lemons....lots of club racing and bikes there, decent access to a major highway, etc. If you're coming up, The popular beers to buy are Labatt's Blue and Molson Canadian, and there are a bunch of great small brewery stuff to try....you need  to find a "Brewer's Retail" or an "LCBO" (liquor as well as beer)...and your exchange rate is favourable....get that passport renewed!

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Where is Canada again, I can't find it on a map?  eh?

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

RobL wrote:

Where is Canada again, I can't find it on a map?  eh?

It's that annex we have up north.  To cold to really use, though.  Too bad, too, I hear there's no one there.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

troubleonwheels wrote:
RobL wrote:

Where is Canada again, I can't find it on a map?  eh?

It's that annex we have up north.  To cold to really use, though.  Too bad, too, I hear there's no one there.

We seem to store nuclear weapons and marijuana there perfectly...

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

RobL wrote:

Where is Canada again, I can't find it on a map?  eh?

Kinda hard to miss...it's the second biggest country in the world....with the population of California, so there's plenty of parking space (unless you live in Toronto)...but leave your handgun behind

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

66

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

I have good documentation for two of my cars, but NONE for the coROLLa.  Since it's been rolled, and there's no new parts on it, I would hope it passes the $500 test.  What do you think?

When will a forum and registration open for this series?  I have family in Pueblo, Colorado, and would LOVE to do a ride swap with someone.  smile

Jer / Schumacher Taxi Service
2010 Spring CMP I.O.E. winner
2010 Sebring overall winner
1996 Miata, 1991 BMW E30, 1987 coROLLa (retired), 1984 Citation (retired), 1993 Miata (retired)

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Do pictures of hand fabrication count as documentation? We plan on doing a little sheet metal and fiberglass work.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

68

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

my guess is you will need to have the receipts for materials.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
Facebook Page

69 (edited by Riktor 2009-08-13 02:17 PM)

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

BoB wrote:

my guess is you will need to have the receipts for materials.

Exhaust piping from oreillys and sheet metal from home depot... so yeah... we have recipes for that and pics of the parts being made.

Can i get a judges call on this? Maybe with a bottle of Johnnie Walker Gold waiting next to the photo album?

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Wrong forum for that. If/when ChumpCar gets their forum up and running, you could ask there, but a quick read of their rules (and a long history of taking John Condren's temperature via the Yahoo group on these kinds of things) tells me that you're more likely to be SOL as he doesn't really like the bribey kind of thing.

Maybe Johnnie Walker Blue Label King George V Edition, but probably not even then.

Pat Mulry, TARP Racing #67

Mandatory disclaimer: all opinions expressed are mine alone & not those of 24HOL, its mgmt, sponsors, etc.

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Oops.. I crossed the two series.

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

RobL wrote:

Where is Canada again, I can't find it on a map?  eh?

http://www.funlol.com/6590/Canada_-_Ame … s_hat.html

smile

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

RoadRunner wrote:
RobL wrote:

Where is Canada again, I can't find it on a map?  eh?

http://www.funlol.com/6590/Canada_-_Ame … s_hat.html

smile

But the hat's larger than the head...it should droop around the ears, maybe around Pennsylvania...

Jim "Endo" Anderton
30 years of racing and still not Brambilla.....

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

Plus, shouldn't it be a touque rather than a baseball cap?

1978 AMC Pacer - The Blue Flag Special
BFE GP '12 - IOE
BFE GP '13 - Co-Organizer's Choice w/ Speed Holes Wrenching

Re: Chumpcar Race Series

@CaptainRat & cpmskinny

Just glanced at the revamped chump site and noticed the Lab Rats Colt in the background.  I hope they're giving you guys royalties...;)

1978 AMC Pacer - The Blue Flag Special
BFE GP '12 - IOE
BFE GP '13 - Co-Organizer's Choice w/ Speed Holes Wrenching