Topic: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

I've been chided a couple times (and nearly got penalty laps) for having a clean well presented car. I understand its supposed to be junkers and relaxed fun, but its easier, safer and a whole lot less messy to have clean junk. That way, when (not if) it brakes, you can see where the various fluids are pouring out of. I'm building another car right now, and am finding that spending no money, there is still a lot you can do to simplify and lighten the cars. Its a junker, but its gonna be a clean junker, BS judging be-dammed!

PS, putting in my $35 unknown spring rate springs in today smile

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Our newbie team is having this same conversation today... we want to degrease the engine bay but have been warned about the car being "too clean".

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

How does one "degrease" an engine?  I've never heard of such a thing!

I STILL have grease in my fingernails from the motorswap at BWillow....  maybe cleaning would have been a good plan!

There is a difference between "clean" and "shiny".  The judges are smart enough to know the dif. between a BRAND NEW part.. and a clean one

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

FreeRange wrote:

There is a difference between "clean" and "shiny".

We were warned that if the engine was clean the assumption would be made that it was chock-a-block full of go fast goodies... of course, nobody makes go fast goodies for a Yahama V6 so I suppose that point is moot.

Drat! And Double Drat!

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

FreeRange wrote:

How does one "degrease" an engine?  I've never heard of such a thing!

I STILL have grease in my fingernails from the motorswap at BWillow....  maybe cleaning would have been a good plan!

Are you joking?

Take your pick - http://www.gunk.com/degreasers.asp

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

RobL wrote:
FreeRange wrote:

How does one "degrease" an engine?  I've never heard of such a thing!

I STILL have grease in my fingernails from the motorswap at BWillow....  maybe cleaning would have been a good plan!

Are you joking?

Take your pick - http://www.gunk.com/degreasers.asp

pssst... Rob.. I was being facetious

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/3835756532_d378e158f1.jpg

We know grease.. and degrease

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

FreeRange wrote:
RobL wrote:
FreeRange wrote:

How does one "degrease" an engine?  I've never heard of such a thing!

I STILL have grease in my fingernails from the motorswap at BWillow....  maybe cleaning would have been a good plan!

Are you joking?

Take your pick - http://www.gunk.com/degreasers.asp

pssst... Rob.. I was being facetious

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3249/383 … e158f1.jpg

We know grease.. and degrease

wow I should have been drinking more to put up with that!

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Sorry... you never know.

--Rob Leone Schumacher Taxi Service
We won the IOE at Southern Discomfort.
We got screwed at The Real Hoopties of New Jersey  and we took cars down with us.
We got the curse at Capitol Offense but they wouldn't let us destroy the car.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Spinnetti wrote:

I've been chided a couple times (and nearly got penalty laps) for having a clean well presented car. I understand its supposed to be junkers and relaxed fun, but its easier, safer and a whole lot less messy to have clean junk. That way, when (not if) it brakes, you can see where the various fluids are pouring out of. I'm building another car right now, and am finding that spending no money, there is still a lot you can do to simplify and lighten the cars. Its a junker, but its gonna be a clean junker, BS judging be-dammed!

PS, putting in my $35 unknown spring rate springs in today smile

Look, we weren't born yesterday. We know that real cheaters add dirt to their engines in order to cover up the cheats.

We just like to make every sweat equally.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Judge Jonny wrote:
Spinnetti wrote:

I've been chided a couple times (and nearly got penalty laps) for having a clean well presented car. I understand its supposed to be junkers and relaxed fun, but its easier, safer and a whole lot less messy to have clean junk. That way, when (not if) it brakes, you can see where the various fluids are pouring out of. I'm building another car right now, and am finding that spending no money, there is still a lot you can do to simplify and lighten the cars. Its a junker, but its gonna be a clean junker, BS judging be-dammed!

PS, putting in my $35 unknown spring rate springs in today smile

Look, we weren't born yesterday. We know that real cheaters add dirt to their engines in order to cover up the cheats.

We just like to make every sweat equally.

Well, due to the regularity of the cheating, so far I've found (3 events) that the judges believe a well told lie a lot more than the truth. The 2nd round I had to make up a few little lies as the truth wasn't believable! I'm worried on my current Lex build that the truth might not be good enough. Maybe a fantastical story is in order smile

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

oh yeah -- well told lies work very well.

That said, Judge Murilee and I are getting better with each race, so yeah -- bring it on.

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Judge Jonny wrote:

oh yeah -- well told lies work very well.

That said, Judge Murilee and I are getting better with each race, so yeah -- bring it on.

Well, if so, can I go for the full truth this time? smile I'm posting every step of the Lex build, so hopefully it will be transparent.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

I'm sure we couldn't handle the "truth."

"This is the scene where I get shot," Bronson said. "I have these little squibs that explode to make it look like bullets are hitting." "Fascinating," said Bergman. "I never knew how they did that." "You mean," asked Bronson, "you don't use machine guns in your movies?"

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Im glad this question got brought up because quite honestly the cheapest thing you can do is clean things.  Clean engines run cooler and are easier to diagnose for leaks.  Our car is undergoing a rigerous cleaning program (if we get penalized so be it, I'll take the ease of repair that comes with clean)

http://wartburg.misfittoysracing.com
OTTER: "I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part."
BLUTO: "We're just the guys to do it."

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Spinnetti wrote:

Well, due to the regularity of the cheating, so far I've found (3 events) that the judges believe a well told lie a lot more than the truth. The 2nd round I had to make up a few little lies as the truth wasn't believable! I'm worried on my current Lex build that the truth might not be good enough. Maybe a fantastical story is in order smile

Spending the time to put together a really good fake story shows respect for the Lemons Supreme Court; providing no documentation whatsoever and/or sending some hapless schmuck who knows nothing about the car to the BS Inspection shows a lack of respect.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Much to the judges dismay, most of the parts on out car are pretty clean. 

While I have a parts washer in the garage and various media blasting devices, you can use any old tub, cleaning brushes and some diesel to clean parts. 

Cheap way to inspect and preserve parts.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Troy wrote:

Much to the judges dismay, most of the parts on out car are pretty clean. 

While I have a parts washer in the garage and various media blasting devices, you can use any old tub, cleaning brushes and some diesel to clean parts. 

Cheap way to inspect and preserve parts.

New penalty idea: Datsun Z drivers get to clean the dirtiest Camaro engine compartment at the track. You know, those pre-87 small-blocks jest love to leak oil!

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

When we see a sparkly-clean engine on a potentially fast Lemons car, we think "Here's a team that wasn't able to apply convincing-looking layers of grime on the valve cover bolts, intake gaskets, etc. after they completely disassembled and hot-rodded the living shit out of their now-14:1-compression cheater engine, so they went ahead and made the whole thing clean." We don't think "Here's a team that's trying to make their 350,000-mile engine run 0.0004 degrees cooler, while keeping their tools nice and clean."

When we see a nice clean engine on a Kia or Eldorado, we don't care. It's all about how high a reading your car gets on our Suspicion-O-Meter™. You show up with an E30, SE-R, Miata, RX-7, Neon, etc., and you're gonna get sweated no matter what.

Anyway, Spinnetti, what the hell are you worried about? You're running a damn 99,000-pound luxury car! Unless it shows up with a manual transmission, headers, and Cheatanium-239 suspension components, you'll get just the standard amount of judicial sweatage. If it has any or all of those items, however, we'll be asking you a lot of pointed questions in a concrete cell lit by a single bare 150W bulb.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

MurileeMartin wrote:

When we see a sparkly-clean engine on a potentially fast Lemons car, we think "Here's a team that wasn't able to apply convincing-looking layers of grime on the valve cover bolts, intake gaskets, etc. after they completely disassembled and hot-rodded the living shit out of their now-14:1-compression cheater engine, so they went ahead and made the whole thing clean." We don't think "Here's a team that's trying to make their 350,000-mile engine run 0.0004 degrees cooler, while keeping their tools nice and clean."

When we see a nice clean engine on a Kia or Eldorado, we don't care. It's all about how high a reading your car gets on our Suspicion-O-Meter™. You show up with an E30, SE-R, Miata, RX-7, Neon, etc., and you're gonna get sweated no matter what.

Anyway, Spinnetti, what the hell are you worried about? You're running a damn 99,000-pound luxury car! Unless it shows up with a manual transmission, headers, and Cheatanium-239 suspension components, you'll get just the standard amount of judicial sweatage. If it has any or all of those items, however, we'll be asking you a lot of pointed questions in a concrete cell lit by a single bare 150W bulb.

Lol. ok, ok....

Nah, I got a $35 ebay suspension with unknown spring rates on stock shocks. I didn't pull the motor or do anything to it. Not so much as sparkplugs, wires  , cap and rotor... just hacked off a frozen idler pulley and put on a shorter belt along with pulling the EGR valve. 240k odd miles on it... I was REALLY tempted to  do a manual trans tho.... I can get a trans for $75, but its the flywheel/clutch that's giving me fits to get in budget.. still dreaming tho!

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

When we got our Stratus, it was puking oil at both ends of the engine AND the back of the head.   Our car and engine bay are well oil coated.

We tried to degrease and powerwash it, we tried.

WE ARE IMPORTANT MEN!  WE DRIVE A DODGE STRATUS!

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

danio3834 wrote:

When we got our Stratus, it was puking oil at both ends of the engine AND the back of the head.   Our car and engine bay are well oil coated.

We tried to degrease and powerwash it, we tried.

I have a hard time imagining the circumstances under which a Stratus would earn any BS Penalty laps.

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

MurileeMartin wrote:
danio3834 wrote:

When we got our Stratus, it was puking oil at both ends of the engine AND the back of the head.   Our car and engine bay are well oil coated.

We tried to degrease and powerwash it, we tried.

I have a hard time imagining the circumstances under which a Stratus would earn any BS Penalty laps.

Maybe if it had a Hemi.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

23 (edited by Riktor 2009-08-24 11:16 AM)

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

So... do you all open the trunks?

On topic: Our engine is pretty damned clean cause I hate transporting shit if I can't clean it first... but the assembly paint is still on the engine bolt... damned asians and their indication marks...

Sons of STIG
Judge Jonny, "So, what's the next formerly thought to be immune from winning that will steal the nickels?An MR2? A Fierro (ha ha ha)? A Datsun/Nissan Z? A Camaro?"

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Spinnetti wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

When we see a sparkly-clean engine on a potentially fast Lemons car, we think "Here's a team that wasn't able to apply convincing-looking layers of grime on the valve cover bolts, intake gaskets, etc. after they completely disassembled and hot-rodded the living shit out of their now-14:1-compression cheater engine, so they went ahead and made the whole thing clean." We don't think "Here's a team that's trying to make their 350,000-mile engine run 0.0004 degrees cooler, while keeping their tools nice and clean."

When we see a nice clean engine on a Kia or Eldorado, we don't care. It's all about how high a reading your car gets on our Suspicion-O-Meter™. You show up with an E30, SE-R, Miata, RX-7, Neon, etc., and you're gonna get sweated no matter what.

Anyway, Spinnetti, what the hell are you worried about? You're running a damn 99,000-pound luxury car! Unless it shows up with a manual transmission, headers, and Cheatanium-239 suspension components, you'll get just the standard amount of judicial sweatage. If it has any or all of those items, however, we'll be asking you a lot of pointed questions in a concrete cell lit by a single bare 150W bulb.

Lol. ok, ok....

Nah, I got a $35 ebay suspension with unknown spring rates on stock shocks. I didn't pull the motor or do anything to it. Not so much as sparkplugs, wires  , cap and rotor... just hacked off a frozen idler pulley and put on a shorter belt along with pulling the EGR valve. 240k odd miles on it... I was REALLY tempted to  do a manual trans tho.... I can get a trans for $75, but its the flywheel/clutch that's giving me fits to get in budget.. still dreaming tho!

hey! Spinnetti!, I thought you were going to shoehorn that lexuuuuussss motor into a celica?

Re: Question for judges: Why does "cheap" have to equal Filthy?

Serj wrote:
Spinnetti wrote:
MurileeMartin wrote:

When we see a sparkly-clean engine on a potentially fast Lemons car, we think "Here's a team that wasn't able to apply convincing-looking layers of grime on the valve cover bolts, intake gaskets, etc. after they completely disassembled and hot-rodded the living shit out of their now-14:1-compression cheater engine, so they went ahead and made the whole thing clean." We don't think "Here's a team that's trying to make their 350,000-mile engine run 0.0004 degrees cooler, while keeping their tools nice and clean."

When we see a nice clean engine on a Kia or Eldorado, we don't care. It's all about how high a reading your car gets on our Suspicion-O-Meter™. You show up with an E30, SE-R, Miata, RX-7, Neon, etc., and you're gonna get sweated no matter what.

Anyway, Spinnetti, what the hell are you worried about? You're running a damn 99,000-pound luxury car! Unless it shows up with a manual transmission, headers, and Cheatanium-239 suspension components, you'll get just the standard amount of judicial sweatage. If it has any or all of those items, however, we'll be asking you a lot of pointed questions in a concrete cell lit by a single bare 150W bulb.

Lol. ok, ok....

Nah, I got a $35 ebay suspension with unknown spring rates on stock shocks. I didn't pull the motor or do anything to it. Not so much as sparkplugs, wires  , cap and rotor... just hacked off a frozen idler pulley and put on a shorter belt along with pulling the EGR valve. 240k odd miles on it... I was REALLY tempted to  do a manual trans tho.... I can get a trans for $75, but its the flywheel/clutch that's giving me fits to get in budget.. still dreaming tho!

hey! Spinnetti!, I thought you were going to shoehorn that lexuuuuussss motor into a celica?

I was... (Corolla actually). I still have it, but the "team" isn't up to the task. It would end up with me doing most of it, and then I wouldn't own it. I also wanted to prove out the Lexus driveline first, so what better place than leaving it in the car it came in? I finished the exhaust yesterday (nightmare - 4 of 6 manifold studs broke off, and not easy to get to, especially lying on the ground!). It running good, though the soft, slow shifting tranny is the weak link.

"Don't mess with Lexas!" LS400. We survived another one! See website link for build details.
Maker of the "unofficial Lemons fish!" - If you ask nice, I'll likely give you one at the track.