1 (edited by Dr. Phil 2013-04-17 09:32 AM)

Topic: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

As has been said by many, including Jay,  road racing a 1975 4-door, six cylinder, automatic transmission-equipped AMC Hornet is a VERY bad idea.  And then Turbocharging the anemic, emissions-choked malaise-era 258 straight six, with a Chinese Turbo and an Ammo Can pressure box, is an even dumber idea.  But as Rusty Mr. Rood once said,  we are what doctors call "stupid."

In response to many questions about this forced-induction alchemy, here is an info-graphic of the business-end of the Turbo Whorenet

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8126/8657321147_29debe48df_c.jpg
whornet by shoalsailing, on Flickr

Phil Ehlinger
1975 AMC Hornet

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Phil,

How do I get it blowed up  (the pic, that is)

I saved the pic, then tried to go 400%.  all blurry.

Silent But Deadly Racing-  Ricky Bobby's Laughing Clown Malt Liquor Thunderbird , Datsun 510, 87 Mustang (The Race Team Formerly Known as Prince), 72 Pinto Squire waggy, Parnelli Jones 67 Galaxie, Turbo Coupe Surf wagon.(The Surfin Bird), Squatting Dogs In Tracksuits,  Space Pants!  Roy Fuckin Kent and The tribute to a tribute to a tribute THUNDERBIRD/ SUNDAHBADOH!

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Beautiful!

Tunachuckers: 15 Years of Effluency
'08 - '10: 1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
'10 - '18: 1975 Ford LTD Landau --> 2018 - current: Converted into 1950 "Plymford"
'22 - current: 1967 Volvo 122, "Charlie ]["

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

May I steal this image for a C/D post?

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Sir Thomas Crapper wrote:

Phil,

How do I get it blowed up  (the pic, that is)

I saved the pic, then tried to go 400%.  all blurry.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/townplanni … otostream/

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Judge Phil, please use at will, including posting it up at youporn

here is a direct link :  http://www.flickr.com/photos/townplanni … 657321147/

And here are "Proof of Concept" test pictures.  The leaf blower fumes in the car almost killed me before the test was completed. Dont try this at home or before any cognitive or blood testing ;-)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8658547338_9e56157d06_b.jpg
Turbo "Proof of Concept" test by shoalsailing, on Flickr

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8103/8658552090_2581d26118_b.jpg
The Ammo Box test by shoalsailing, on Flickr

Phil Ehlinger
1975 AMC Hornet

7 (edited by Drdanteiii 2013-04-17 10:02 AM)

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

FYI:  There is anecdotal evidence of those $50 ebay HEI distributors eating the cam gear.  I've seen it happen on a friends 304.   I re-used hte factory cam gear on my ebay HEI for my 304 without issues.


I'll just leave these here....
http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/IMG_0038.jpg

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/47-4500WH%20300.jpg


http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merc … _Code=J258



http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/ofy-5999dp_w_m.jpg
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-5999dp/overview/

The Roto-Racer '89 Merkur:  If it ain't rusting, It ain't racing.

'14 Real Hoopties of NJ: Judges Choice

8 (edited by Dr. Phil 2013-04-17 10:43 AM)

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Drdanteiii wrote:

FYI:  There is anecdotal evidence of those $50 ebay HEI distributors eating the cam gear.  I've seen it happen on a friends 304.   I re-used hte factory cam gear on my ebay HEI for my 304 without issues.

Yes there must be 100 pages of jeep and AMC forum chatter bout these cam gears. And I read every one before I did the cheap HEI.   But what everyone in those posts seemed to miss is that the 258 i6 cam has the dist. gear teeth machined into it and its a one piece unit.  The argument that the Chinese metal gear on the distributor is somehow harder than my hardened camshaft steel defies logic. The v8 (304 etc) have a different setup and the cam gear is removable and is not part of the cam metal itself  (at least that's my understanding)  Therefore the 258 distributor cam gear is part of the camshaft, which is pretty darn hardened.   Even so I pulled the dist after a couple hundred miles and checked the gear because I was so gun shy, and it looks like new.  It's a six vs 8 cylinder thing I guess.

That twin carb setup is actually brilliant because it eliminates the long intake tract to #1 & 6 which always run lean as a consequence of the old school stock manifold.

Phil Ehlinger
1975 AMC Hornet

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

yeah, the V8 cam gear is replacable (press onn/off), and apparently pretty soft.  I ran mine for while with the gear that came with the dizzy, but swaped it out for the factory one after getting a little paranoid.  I honestly havent paid much attention to the 6cyl side of the issue.

you're gonna need a bigger ammo can to run that twin carb job. smile

The Roto-Racer '89 Merkur:  If it ain't rusting, It ain't racing.

'14 Real Hoopties of NJ: Judges Choice

10 (edited by Parkwod60 2013-04-17 05:20 PM)

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Buying new parts is for cheaters. Just grind 2 flat spots on the stock 1bbl manifold and put 2 more 1bbl carbs on it. You're going to need 2 more ammo cans. Is the factory manifold aluminum? Then you are 2 steps ahead of me. The Ford 200 manifold is cast with the head, and therefore cast iron.

One of my next set ups will be 3 side draft bike carbs.

I am jealous.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Dr. Phil wrote:

And here are "Proof of Concept" test pictures.  The leaf blower fumes in the car almost killed me before the test was completed.

... but did it work?!? Not that I'd deliberately trade a few horsepower for asphyxiating my drivers... per se...

"Real ZomBees prefer Bacon"
IOE(x2) MGB/SAAB 96, Judge's Choice, Class C Win, & 2011 Hooniverse Car of the Year!
MRolla, Stick Figure/Animal House, Free Range MR2, SAAB Sonett, "The Death Flip"
2008 Exoskeleton Jag Fiasco, Concours d Lemons - Rue Britannia, worse British car.

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Very cool and the test blower is worth more than the Gremlin.

Troy

#35 LRE
1973 Datsun 240Z

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

If your wastegate isn't activating, how are you planning to turn up the boost?  If you're not already controlling it low, there's no magic button you can push to get more.

#(1)75 (was #74) Dirt Cheap Racing (driver/wrench/cool suit cooler fabricator/accountant/substitute captain) - '88 Mustang turbo-4, in garish stickers over spray chrome!
2011 - Garrapatas (11th / 3rd in B), Heaps in the Heart of Texas (19th / 3rd in B)
2012 and 2013 - Lemons didn't fit into our schedule
2014 - Heaps in the Heart of Texas

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Mr. Wednesday wrote:

If your wastegate isn't activating, how are you planning to turn up the boost?  If you're not already controlling it low, there's no magic button you can push to get more.

True.  But the Carb Box is leaking boost in a couple places, and the 1 bbl Carter's bore is so small the pressure drop is significant, and the motor is not seeing anywhere near the boost we are making.   We made the decision before NY to leave the known boost leaks as AFR had achieved a safe level of equilibrium that was good for endurance racing.   When we tighten up the intake tract and enclosure, and swap the carb for a 2bbl motorcraft or holley (junkyard of course), and advance the timing beyond our ultra conservative tune, we anticipate more zoom zoom.  Or maybe boom boom.

Phil Ehlinger
1975 AMC Hornet

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Don't forget the Rochester 2GC, its a perfectly good 2bbl that probably flows twice what the 1bbl does and has no smog stuff to take off. We run ours sideways by basically cutting a second hole in the 1bbl manifold.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

One vote for Holley 4412, which is a light years better carb than a Rochester, and usually cheaper, and easier to find in working order. They both flow the same CFM, and the 4412 is much more tuneable. Plus you can find more adapters and base plates to mount them.
The Motorcraft 2100 or Autolite 2100 is a great carb, but I have never found jets for them. That means you have to solder and drill to jet. Plus the 2100 is only 380 CFM or so. The Motorcraft has a kick ass AFR curve, though. Super flat across the board. I like the way that carb works, but tuning it at the track proved difficult.
You can find the 4412 in junkyards, but they are also plentiful at swapmeets, especially circletrack specific ones. I have never pais more than $50 for one.

Smokey Yunick, Jim Hall, Chad Knaus, and Me...

Re: Behind the Bonnet: Infographic of IOE winning Turbo Whorenet

Jalopyshoppe wrote:

One vote for Holley 4412, which is a light years better carb than a Rochester, and usually cheaper, and easier to find in working order. They both flow the same CFM, and the 4412 is much more tuneable. Plus you can find more adapters and base plates to mount them.
The Motorcraft 2100 or Autolite 2100 is a great carb, but I have never found jets for them. That means you have to solder and drill to jet. Plus the 2100 is only 380 CFM or so. The Motorcraft has a kick ass AFR curve, though. Super flat across the board. I like the way that carb works, but tuning it at the track proved difficult.
You can find the 4412 in junkyards, but they are also plentiful at swapmeets, especially circletrack specific ones. I have never pais more than $50 for one.

Not sure about the Motorcraft jets, but they have had everything else I have been looking for http://www.carbsonly.com/

I always suggest the Rochester because they are also so easy to find on the cheap, and now many circle track street stock classes use it, so tuning parts are still easy enough to get.

Constructor/Owner/Driver - Billy Beer Ford Futura