• From: Michigan - Near Gingerman
  • Registered: 2014-03-29
  • Posts: 55

Topic: Question for cage for body on frame truck

I've searched through the threads here, and have read the cage rules and looked over the PDF many, many times.  My team and I still want to understand something that we must be missing.

Is it required to weld the cage to the frame on a body on frame vehicle (in our case a truck)?  If not, and we weld to the floorpan using the appropriate (or even oversized) spreader plates, can we then tie that location to the frame?

The frame on the truck sits inboard too far to cut through the floor and have a cage that sits around the driver instead on the driver.  We'd like to use square tube to make outriggers from the frame to the location where we would like to place the cage, is that legal provided we are properly welded and on correctly sized spreader plates in the cab?

Can we remove the body mounts and make a solid connection through that location for the purpose of getting the cage to the frame?

I've written an e-mail to Jeff & John as I've seen instructed in other threads, but haven't heard back.  We want to get our cage in before we register for our event.. but we are running out of time without these answers.

Thanks!

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2 Reply by chaase (edited by chaase 2014-07-28 10:08 AM)

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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

I don't see the answer in the rules but I know NHRA requires that the roll cage be mounted to the frame for body on frame cars. It is stronger to weld it directly to the frame than to the body. Personally, I wouldn't mess around with the body mount. I would just find a nice spot near by and attach it to the frame. Hopefully someone that has done this before will chime in.

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3 Reply by cheseroo (edited by cheseroo 2014-07-28 09:01 AM)

  • From: Tustin, CA
  • Registered: 2010-12-30
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

When I was contemplating doing up a TR4 (which has a narrow frame), John wanted 2 legged outriggers tying the cage legs back to the frame.  The connection point was outrigger pads, body, spreader plate and cage tubing.  Tying the cage directly to the frame rail wasn't logistically possible with that car as half my body would be outside the cage with the A post between my legs.  I was concerned about the cage being tied to cantilevered outriggers but John said that's the way it was done.  Make a rough drawing of what you plan to do and send it to John.  If he signs off on it and execute well, you won't have any problems passing tech with it.

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  • From: Michigan - Near Gingerman
  • Registered: 2014-03-29
  • Posts: 55

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

@cheseroo: Your TR4 thread is one of them I reviewed in detail, thanks for responding.

I have e-mailed both jeff *at* 24hoursoflemons.com and  john *at* evilgeniusracing.com with questions, but not drawing / pictures, but have yet to hear back (it's been a week and I can respect they have more than just my one e-mail to respond to).  We'll do up some pictures / drawings and resend if those are still the correct addresses to send the information to.

Our situation wouldn't be as bad as the TR4, but still not ideal.   Our concern is also the cantileaver that's going on there, but with appropriate spreader plates to the body, we should be fine without the outriggers.  Our thoughts were the same... from inside the cab to outside it would be: cage tubing -> appropriately sized spreader plate -> sound body sheetmetal->pads/outriggers which are tied to the frame.

Appreciate the feedback, we want to be safe, but want to be legal to the rules as well, and I understand that we aren't looking to make a 1,000 page rule book with every possible situation covered, so we are OK with asking for direction/clarification and appreciate the help and guidance.

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  • From: Columbus, OH
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Keep in mind you can register for the event then if the cage doesn't work out you can drop out.  Until you pay your fees dropping out doesn't cost you anything.  The fees won't be due for a couple weeks after the sign-up deadline.

Once you pay, well, you're out the money.

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  • From: Michigan - Near Gingerman
  • Registered: 2014-03-29
  • Posts: 55

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

dculberson wrote:

Keep in mind you can register for the event then if the cage doesn't work out you can drop out.  Until you pay your fees dropping out doesn't cost you anything.  The fees won't be due for a couple weeks after the sign-up deadline.

Once you pay, well, you're out the money.

This I didn't know... I thought we had to pay when we registered, which is why we haven't yet.  Thanks!

Statically Indeterminate: #58 '95 Purple S-10 (Flyin' Purple People Eater)
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  • chaase
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

rlhammon wrote:
dculberson wrote:

Keep in mind you can register for the event then if the cage doesn't work out you can drop out.  Until you pay your fees dropping out doesn't cost you anything.  The fees won't be due for a couple weeks after the sign-up deadline.

Once you pay, well, you're out the money.

This I didn't know... I thought we had to pay when we registered, which is why we haven't yet.  Thanks!

You have a couple of weeks, after you are accepted, to pay up.

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1969 Rover P6B 3500S(sold) - Super G-Rover - I.O.E Winner, Class C Winner
1996 Saturn SW2 - Elmo's Revenge (reborn!), Saturn SL1  Dazzleshipm Class C x2 and IOE winner
1974 AMC Javelin - Oscar's Trash heap - IOE,”Organizer's Choice" and "I got Screwed" award winner
  • From: Birdsboro, PA
  • Registered: 2009-10-26
  • Posts: 892

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

The boat, which is an S10 underneath, has this same issue when caging.  We made beefy outriggers out of 3/16 welded directly to the frame, then the main hoop sits on that.  For the forward bars, the ideal location was right above the stock forward cab mounts, and John approved playing the floor of the cab there like a unibody car, as they were well supported underneath.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia
  • From: Michigan - Near Gingerman
  • Registered: 2014-03-29
  • Posts: 55

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Sonic wrote:

The boat, which is an S10 underneath, has this same issue when caging.  We made beefy outriggers out of 3/16 welded directly to the frame, then the main hoop sits on that.  For the forward bars, the ideal location was right above the stock forward cab mounts, and John approved playing the floor of the cab there like a unibody car, as they were well supported underneath.

Can you provide any pictures?  We are dealing with an S10, and agree on the locations for the cage and the issue with the front mount.  Our plan was to add in larger spreader plates on the A-pilar location tube to body contact, even though our plan is to be on top of that body mount.

I'm interested in seeing how you did the outriggers so that they passed tech.  We would just like to copy the design to ensure we are in compliance and didn't want to end up being at tech and have someone say, "I would like you to do X" when we have the ability to do it now.

Appreciate any pictures you can provide of those outriggers.

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  • From: Birdsboro, PA
  • Registered: 2009-10-26
  • Posts: 892

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

I'd be happy to, but I won't see the boat again until next Friday, email me at Chris at threepedalmafia dot com so that I remember and I'll send some to you.  Basically they are triangular boxes almost as big as the frame, welded inside and out, then boxed in once in place, flat panel on top for the main hoop to sit on. We have the roof cut off and the hoop behind the cab wall but the outriggers would be the same.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia
  • From: Victoria, BC
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Chris, I would be interested in seeing how you did this as well, as our next build will be on an S15 chassis. I think we plan on caging the chassis, then adding the bodywork around the cage, but that could all change...
Sean

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  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Yeah,on S10s we box out to the front cab mount and land the front of the cage there.    I wish I could dig up pics of the Licensed To Ill s-10, we did the cage on that.     You need to go the to frame, but you can do so by tying into/landing on the factory cab mounts.

-John

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  • From: Alvin, TX
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Been watching this thread for pointers.

John,  what would you recommend for THIS:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/ninechaos/D5402F05-D72D-4235-923E-E53810F952C7_zpschcimxbk.jpg

big_smile

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  • From: Davis, Ca
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Been there, done that. Next...       We've done a few Mazda truck cages, not that bad... Never done a REPU, but the frame is similar to the b-series trucks, so it shouldn't be a big deal.   We land the bars on the frame mounts inside the cab and cut holes in the bed to land on  the rear frame rails.

-John

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15 Reply by Evil Genius (edited by Evil Genius 2014-07-31 11:47 AM)

  • From: Davis, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-04-30
  • Posts: 1,843

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

rlhammon wrote:

@cheseroo: Your TR4 thread is one of them I reviewed in detail, thanks for responding.

I have e-mailed both jeff *at* 24hoursoflemons.com and  john *at* evilgeniusracing.com with questions, but not drawing / pictures, but have yet to hear back (it's been a week and I can respect they have more than just my one e-mail to respond to).  We'll do up some pictures / drawings and resend if those are still the correct addresses to send the information to.

Our situation wouldn't be as bad as the TR4, but still not ideal.   Our concern is also the cantileaver that's going on there, but with appropriate spreader plates to the body, we should be fine without the outriggers.  Our thoughts were the same... from inside the cab to outside it would be: cage tubing -> appropriately sized spreader plate -> sound body sheetmetal->pads/outriggers which are tied to the frame.

Appreciate the feedback, we want to be safe, but want to be legal to the rules as well, and I understand that we aren't looking to make a 1,000 page rule book with every possible situation covered, so we are OK with asking for direction/clarification and appreciate the help and guidance.

I've gone through my emails and cannot find that email.  I'm sorry it didn't get answered, I strive to get back to people within 24 hours.    Unless, of course, I'm off line in the hinterlands of Cape Breton....

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  • From: Davis, Ca
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

Been watching this thread for pointers.

John,  what would you recommend for THIS:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/ninechaos/D5402F05-D72D-4235-923E-E53810F952C7_zpschcimxbk.jpg

big_smile

Please race it with the shell on it, that'd be awesome!

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17 Reply by BoB

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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Team Sensory Assault wrote:

Been watching this thread for pointers.

John,  what would you recommend for THIS:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/ninechaos/D5402F05-D72D-4235-923E-E53810F952C7_zpschcimxbk.jpg

big_smile

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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

BoB wrote:
Team Sensory Assault wrote:

Been watching this thread for pointers.

John,  what would you recommend for THIS:

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a70/ninechaos/D5402F05-D72D-4235-923E-E53810F952C7_zpschcimxbk.jpg

big_smile

Mandatory tetanus shots for anyone within 20 feet of it.

SOP for Sensory Assault.

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  • From: Michigan - Near Gingerman
  • Registered: 2014-03-29
  • Posts: 55

Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Just a follow up on this.

We've got the cage in and tied to the frame... now it's time to patch up all of the floor since we had to remove a fair amount to get down to where the welds were.  When we put a floor back in, do we need to weld the floor to the cage bars?  We are taking pictures of the support structure since it will be hard to really review well in tech once the floor in back in... so we were not sure what to do with the floor plan / cage bar intersections.

Thanks!

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  • From: Birdsboro, PA
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

Thanks for bumping this up as a reminder. The boat is now at my house, I'll post pics tomorrow.

Chris from 3 Pedal Mafia
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Re: Question for cage for body on frame truck

On my Mazda I built outriggers on frame . Then when you weld it raise the body up weld top of cage and  then  tube to outriggers. Easiest cage ever.

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