The 24 Hours of Lemons Forums → Lemons Newcomers → Can we bring a spare car?
So its towards the end of the season and there are some cars being sold very cheap. Our current car isn't super reliable, so if it blows up, instead of swapping the engine and missing 5 hrs of track time. If we had a spare car, could we just move the transponder and keep racing? Will Lemons want another entry fee? Has anyone every done this?
So its towards the end of the season and there are some cars being sold very cheap. Our current car isn't super reliable, so if it blows up, instead of swapping the engine and missing 5 hrs of track time. If we had a spare car, could we just move the transponder and keep racing? Will Lemons want another entry fee? Has anyone every done this?
It MIGHT be allowed but it not a guarantee. Case by case only.
In our case we brought our Saturn that was for sale with a for sale/for rent sign on it to one race. We knew there were going to cars that would not pass tech or would not start or would blow up during test and tune. This was a current car with known tech pedigree.
The Simca blew up early and two of the A&D's for that car asked to rent it...they allowed it. Keep in mind, these folks had to install their seat and harness in it and they failed to drain the coolant out and replace it with water, etc, etc. They spent HOURS off track doing these things so make SURE said car is ready to go in every way...or better yet figure out how to swap your engine faster in your existing car...or better yet, figure out how to make the car you have reliable.
Thanks! how much did you rent the Saturn out for?
I've done it once where I had the crazy notion that the Jag wouldn't last 24 hrs so I brought a spare. I teched it so it had a signed sheet but had no window sticker. What they agreed on was that I could swap cars but an automatic 50 lap penalty would be applied and the replacement car put in a higher class so that I didn't mess with the people competing for a class win. The Jag went 24 so we didn't need to see how it worked in practice.
But it brings up an interesting point for new teams with a new build that there is nothing to prevent you from showing up at a random race where you aren't entered and send the car through the tech/BS line at a slow time in the middle of Friday to find out where you stand. With no entry for the car you can't get a window sticker or driver wristbands so you can't race but you'll have that peace of mind.
Its been done multiple times in the past. You will generally be barred from winning anything not that it matters.
Thanks!
I think we will definitely do this. Probably easier to bring a 2nd car than to bring the spare engine and all the tools to do a swap at the track.
Thanks!
I think we will definitely do this. Probably easier to bring a 2nd car than to bring the spare engine and all the tools to do a swap at the track.
You need a more adventurous attitude. Engine swaps are not that hard. Go practice once. Half the point of this series is to see how long you can keep a car going. We want heroic fixes, not piles of money solving problems.
That said, yes. I've seen teams go fetch their second car once the first was damaged beyond repair.
...could we just move the transponder and keep racing?
Be sure to inform Lemons HQ of the transfer before taking the second car onto the track. Timing and scoring (i.e. Roland) is not amused by unannounced irregularities with the transponders, no matter how innocently intended.
Thanks!
I think we will definitely do this. Probably easier to bring a 2nd car than to bring the spare engine and all the tools to do a swap at the track.
Depends how good you are at an engine swap.
On the Fox I had it down where I could remove the motor on my own in an hour. We did a motor swap in a short morning in my driveway a few weeks ago. It helps that we had a spare configured and ready to go, and the whole engine is on 1 quick connect harness.
Swapping an engine that quick at least keeps you in the running for an award, and takes up less space 
At one race we turned 5 laps on saturday. By the evening we realized we couldn't get our car fixed so we asked the judges if we could make a 4 hour round trip back to HQ to pick up our other car. They said they'd bump us to A class but we didn't care as we only wanted to get track time to make up for the money we paid.
The funny thing, there were two teams with blown up red pickups that saturday, us and 3PM. The next day both teams brought our spare cars which both ended up being Mercedes sedans.
Run a multi-car team. If all goes well, more track time for everyone! If it goes to crap, at least there's likely a car to drive.
As Hella Sh!tty how it went for them at Thunderhill .
If you bring a spare car, we won't charge you anything to switch cars but the spare will need to pass a full tech inspection before it goes out on the track. Once you have a tech sticker on the spare, just swap transponders, let the tower know the new car number, and you should be good.
This doesn't mean that you can switch back and forth between the two cars all weekend, just that you can switch to the second car if you blow up the first one.
Once you have a tech sticker on the spare, just swap transponders, let the tower know the new car number, and you should be good.
Or just put the same number on both cars. Or all 3 cars, because you should be planning for worst case scenario.
Ya'll need to improve your engine swap times. Back when we were averaging 2 engines a race, we could do a full motor/transmission swap in under an hour. I know Team SOB has done it faster - pretty impressive to watch.
Judge Phil wrote:Once you have a tech sticker on the spare, just swap transponders, let the tower know the new car number, and you should be good.
Or just put the same number on both cars. Or all 3 cars, because you should be planning for worst case scenario.
This x 100
Roland will come out of the timing tower and throttle you with whatever he can find at hand if you switch up numbers. Just do your best to not get in people's ways if you run a backup car; if you're out of contention, you (A) don't want two broken cars to fix and (B) don't want to overdrive it and wreck somebody competing for a win and also ending up at (A) in the process.
Thanks, this is good news. spare car should arrive this week ($500 for shipping) Also could come in handy in the unfortunate case the first car gets wrecked.
We will have a spare, untested, almost complete, engine, but its defiantly not a whole FWD assembly so I'm pretty sure we would be way longer than an hour to swap... I guess we should practice like TheEngineer recommended.
I'm a believer is Murphy's Law, so if we have a spare car and engine at the race nothing can possibly go wrong with the primary car. Right??
Thanks, this is good news. spare car should arrive this week ($500 for shipping) Also could come in handy in the unfortunate case the first car gets wrecked.
We will have a spare, untested, almost complete, engine, but its defiantly not a whole FWD assembly so I'm pretty sure we would be way longer than an hour to swap... I guess we should practice like TheEngineer recommended.I'm a believer is Murphy's Law, so if we have a spare car and engine at the race nothing can possibly go wrong with the primary car. Right??
Doing it once to practice has many benefits. First you understand what it takes to swap. Second it lets you get a better look at everything, maybe you'll notice a part that wants to fail. Third you'll better understand the car which helps with diagnosing problems.
I was to the point where I could pull an engine inside an hour without help, and I could rebuild them in my sleep. Didn't need a full FWD assembly, I just unbolted the engine from the trans and pulled it out. Works for some cars, not others.
By definition, if you're switching to the spare car, you're out of contention. Nobody switches to the backup car 30 seconds after detecting a minor problem with the main car. They switch cars after a cruel, hours-long drama of magical thinking and unsuccessful repair attempts. This means that you will have plenty of time to notify the tower about number changes or whatever.
Doing it once to practice has many benefits. First you understand what it takes to swap. Second it lets you get a better look at everything, maybe you'll notice a part that wants to fail. Third you'll better understand the car which helps with diagnosing problems.
And to add to this, it gives you chance to do front and rear seals which are COMMON leakers that can lead to a black flag that takes a long, long time to fix in the paddock.
We went a step further with the Saturn and actually had laminated sheets telling each member their tasks in the swap. 1/3 of those tasks were checking someone else's work. This is HUGE when you have two guys that do 90% of the work on the car when not at the track and three others (OK, maybe only two) that can follow step by step instructions.
So we are in the process of changing the "rear main" crank seal, center shaft bearing, and clutch, so this car should be much more reliable; if we finish in time for the race...
We still plan to bring the spare car (its almost just as nice -for a Lemons car) except it is an auto. Was wondering if we would be able to rotate it in for a few laps on Friday's track day?
Officially, no unless you register both cars to the tune of $195 each. Even then, Gingerman could theoretically say no because the car is not registered as a Lemons entry but I think that unlikely.
so how much did you rent your Saturn for when you brought it as a spare/for sale?
I would consider spending the $195 and then we could get both cars on the track at once (would be easy to see which was the better car...) plus might have more drivers next year and if we use both cars would be good to have some time at the track for the 2nd car.
I honestly do not remember but but it was kind of a brother-in-law deal since the car that blew up was the Bacon Man's car. I want to say it was about $400 for 12 hours (it was a true 24 hour race). Would not ever rent it for the that price again and keep in mind...we were trying to sell it and not having any takers plus that car is really good on consumables like brakes and tires.
Oh, also keep in mind...the faster car is by no means guaranteed to be the better car. The better car balances fuel burn, lap time, reliability and ease of repair/need for repair and finally, ease of driving it quickly in heavy traffic.
You would be surprised how big an advantage it is having a car and drivers for that car being able to do silly-long stints. You can't do that unless the drivers are capable of driving that car, with that fuel burn/capacity, for that long without breaking down.
I doubt either will be exceptionaly fast. The 2nd car might do better on fuel since the tank is bigger, but otherwise it seems a toss up. 1st car is 90ish camry with 3.0 V6 5 speed and 2nd is volvo 960 I6 auto. about same HP and weight is probably close now (original was 2800 vs 3500 but volvo shed ALOT of weight) I am partial to Toyota since most of my work cloths have their logo on them... also the camry has been thru tech inspection and finished a 24hr race last year, the volvo very well built, but never been on the track. both are new to me...
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