Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Feels like DC fast charge might be what needs to happen. Instead if investing into a lot of power supplies and chargers. two good DC charger might be needed. looking at https://www.plugshare.com/ there is no near CMP charge stations.
if pack is 18kw, then with fast charger might be possible to recharge in 1.25hrs.
12 laps would be around 24 minutes? Would it be sensible to add more batteries to the car? Double it?
at 1.35kw/lap, that is like 40kw-hr you sucking. So that is around 2.25C on the batteries. your mileage probably will improve as the battery demand drop.
what was the peak motor power usage?

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu - 3 races, IOE, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering
http://i.imgur.com/m3KbADo.gif

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

DC Fast Charge would be great, but that 50KW-120KW needs to come from somewhere, and it's not coming from CMP.

12 laps will probably be about 30 minutes; we are not a very fast race car. So probably closer to 30kwh.

Batteries can be added, but only in a way that makes it easy to get them in and out at pit stops. I figure I can add one more 6K pack before I run out of space. I could definitely stuff more batteries in it, but not in a way that would make it easy to get them in and out at pit stops. I may run a 24K set of batteries at the fall CMP race, it depends on how many batteries I can buy between now and then.

Along those lines, I had considered buying an old Chevy S10, as those are easy to convert, but we've got a lot more bugs to work out of the system before we've maxed out this platform.

Driving around this week and flooring it up hills, I was seeing 300A, so around 45K at full throttle.

I also have to consider price and weight. 1kwh of batteries costs about $100 and weighs 20 pounds.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

kakarot1232001 wrote:

Feels like DC fast charge might be what needs to happen.

150V @ 120A IS the DC fast charge for these things. Strings of ~53Ah cells, 3 in parallel. While one could possibly charge them at 3C (~450A), that will significantly reduce their lifespan and require water cooling. And the entire CMP power grid. At Barber, this wouldn't be much of a problem, but at CMP...

Given 15min to drain, and 1.5hr to charge (conservative estimates -- not that any of our math has ever worked), that works out to 7 packs. 1 in the car and 6 charging. Constantly. Assuming (because I've not looked at the charger data) 1hr to CV, we'd have 4 charging packs at full load (120A) and 2 at partial load. That's 75-80kW. That's a reasonable rental generator. 450A fast charging would create peaks over 150kW.

(to do this Formula-E style -- without charging, we'd need ~32 packs. Or put another way over 11 THOUSAND pounds of batteries.)

Remember, we aren't using conventional EV technology. That stuff is super f'ing dangerous: 360-450VDC. Ours is a safer, cook-you-slowly 150VDC. We charge them at an even safer 12cells-at-a-time 50V. And those chargers are fed from 24V supplies.

CarolinaHondas.com / Duff Beer Civic #128
2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7)
2016 Barber - Class B Win!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

One of this maybe? mount the motor-generator on a trailer.
https://previews.123rf.com/images/richg8250/richg82500808/richg8250080800008/3494250-Diesel-railroad-Locomotive-engine-on-a-side-track-Stock-Photo.jpg

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu - 3 races, IOE, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering
http://i.imgur.com/m3KbADo.gif

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

less of a joke
http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/v … vertTo=USD

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu - 3 races, IOE, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering
http://i.imgur.com/m3KbADo.gif

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

kakarot1232001 wrote:

One of this maybe? mount the motor-generator on a trailer.
https://previews.123rf.com/images/richg8250/richg82500808/richg8250080800008/3494250-Diesel-railroad-Locomotive-engine-on-a-side-track-Stock-Photo.jpg

Unrelated but related.  The generators we found all over Iraq at former British bases from the late 1940's had Rolls Royce printed all over them.  They were HUGE.  After successfully firing one up with minimal work, we did some research.  They were WWII 16 cylinder diesel locomotives, wheels removed, palatalized and an AC converter added.

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

So we're currently charging at .4C, which is safe; it's just slow.

Let's say we supercharge  at 2C to 80%, then run the battery down to 20%. Not as safe as .4C, but as long as we cut the 2C charge off at 80% (as soon as it hits 4.2v/cell), we should be okay.

So run the battery down to 3.5KW, then charge it back up to 14.5KW at 2C.

It takes about 1.5 hours to hit 80% at .4C, and it should take about 20 minutes at 2C.

80% charge should get us 8 laps which will take about 20 minutes to complete, so at 2C we charge as fast as we use.

Now we just need two battery packs, but we need 50KW of power and a CA DC power supply that can put out over 300A at 150VDC. Even if we get the generator, the DC power supply is a tall order. I know where to get one, but it would be more expensive than everything else combined (including the RV, trailer, and everything else in our paddock).

Charging at 1C is similar, but we need more batteries because we only charge half as fast as we use.

I think that the final answer is going to be something like running our current chargers and having two sets, if of course running one full set at .4C all weekend actually works. Last time I tried it I blew most of them up.

How many laps we get will depend on the number of batteries. My plan for Spring CMP with one set of chargers and three sets of batteries is something like this:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-stuff-picture6638-charging4.jpg

That should get us 140-150 laps for the weekend.

By Fall CMP I want to have two sets of chargers and four sets of batteries, so it will go something like this:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-stuff-picture6637-charging5.jpg

Now we're getting up around 250 laps, which is getting pretty good.

If I do some suspension work , new sticky tires, etc to let us carry more momentum, add another set of batteries and chargers, then it should start looking like this next season:

http://www.carolinahondas.com/members/roger-albums-stuff-picture6639-charging6.jpg

Now we're turning over 300 laps and racing for a Class C trophy.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:

DC power supply that can put out over 300A at 150VDC

The 150V is the complicating part. Charging the packs like we do -- 12S or ~48V (49.8 actually) -- puts us in range of cheap telco datacenter technology. However, those things are designed around 3 phase industrial power. [480v and 600v] I could power those at work, but not at home, our shop, or on the road. (and then there's the problem of setting them on a table in the rain, where CMP's fire ants WILL colonize them.)

At the end of the day, it's cheaper to just buy more batteries. Volt batteries are much cheaper than locomotives. :-) ('tho at some point, there's going to be too many to move around. Some might say we're there already.)

CarolinaHondas.com / Duff Beer Civic #128
2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7)
2016 Barber - Class B Win!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Sounds like you need this with the military grade generator I linked before or similar. Like this http://www.govliquidation.com/auction/v … vertTo=USD
and do something like this http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/Rotary_Co … Technology or mercury arc.

to do the 2C charge speed, a pack would be consuming 33kw-h (3.5kw to 14.5kw in 20 min) and thats is a lot of juice to do. Need your own power plant for this shindig.

stupid electricity sad

my own math, a car takes 4gal/hr to race. so that is 146kw, electric car is 3x more efficient, so 48.6kw needed every hour. Yup, its a tall order to be competitive with electric car in endurance race. Good luck, hope to see it do lots of laps in the future smile

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu - 3 races, IOE, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering
http://i.imgur.com/m3KbADo.gif

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Ricky stopped by the shop tonight. I think we figured out charging.

We make a deal with a team with a big heavy V8 car, like the Tunachuckers. We can offer them some gas money, sexual favors, 3-bean salad, or whatever they're in to.

Mount railcar couplers to a class 3 hitch frame on the big car and to the front of the Electrica. Run 10 laps. Radio for in-flight refueling, then match up on the front straight and connect. Flip a switch to put the controller in full regen mode, 300 amps for 5-6 laps should top us off and they'll hardly notice us back there. Signal that we're full, disengage on the front straight, repeat.

I can see no way in which this carefully laid plan could ever fail.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

111 (edited by Team Infinniti 2017-03-19 11:22 AM)

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

If regen is a fast alternative, how about towing the car around the paddock with your truck?

Just yesterday the local municipal auction was selling a half dozen low hour "portable" trailer mounted generators ranging from 40kw to 100kw,suggested sealed bid was $1200 , didn't stay to see actual sale price, internet  results are still  pending... Just saying, things like this do pop up.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR LeMons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

No, truck, we have a 35" Winnebago and a small car trailer. So no towing with the tow bar or anything on the trailer except the car.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

jfbeam wrote:

At the end of the day, it's cheaper to just buy more batteries. Volt batteries are much cheaper than locomotives. :-) ('tho at some point, there's going to be too many to move around. Some might say we're there already.)


I was thinking about this, because it's true. Battery changes are a lot of back-breaking work, and if we have to swap out a bunch of 120-pound batteries every 30 minutes, then we will probably break something.

Introducing the amazing BACK SAVER 3000:

https://youtu.be/XP3DlsZjlR0

That took me 4 minutes in real time. I think that we can do a battery pack swap in less than ten minutes with two people working on it.

I should patent this process. Once that YouTube video goes viral, every Electrica 007 driver is going to want to do this.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Ok no tow truck,and I actually have no clue if viable, how about a hacked prius/volt/other driveline/inverter setup to charge from the ICE?

Thinking out loud because I just bought a 02 prius with a bad battery for $300 i.e. this stuff is cheap @ end of life.

Homestead Chump 5th-Sebring 6th-PBIR LeMons 9th - Charlotte Chump  CrashnBurn 9th
Sebring 6th again -NOLA Chump 1st -PBIR Chump Trans Fail 16th
Daytona 11th - Sebring 6th - Atlanta Motor Speedway 2nd - Road Atlanta Trans Fail 61st-Road Atlanta 5th
Daytona 13th - Charlotte 9th - Sebring 2nd-Charlotte 25th broken brakes - Road Atlanta 14 10th-Daytona 14  58th- Humid TT 19th Judges' Choice!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:
jfbeam wrote:

At the end of the day, it's cheaper to just buy more batteries. Volt batteries are much cheaper than locomotives. :-) ('tho at some point, there's going to be too many to move around. Some might say we're there already.)


I was thinking about this, because it's true. Battery changes are a lot of back-breaking work, and if we have to swap out a bunch of 120-pound batteries every 30 minutes, then we will probably break something.

Introducing the amazing BACK SAVER 3000:

https://youtu.be/XP3DlsZjlR0

That took me 4 minutes in real time. I think that we can do a battery pack swap in less than ten minutes with two people working on it.

I should patent this process. Once that YouTube video goes viral, every Electrica 007 driver is going to want to do this.

I am in construction a bit. For sure you can do small pipe scaffold that car can pass under. you can mount electric winch one to lift battery out, and another do drop battery in. Think it be cool to see in action, lemmony video worth.

It be cold tube scaffold, or coupler scaffolding. You be able to make it large enough to drive straight under. Cheaper that you think, get the used equipment and haggle for the price. some planks and plywood to have a solid surface to work from. You be in business.

https://www.facebook.com/greatglobsofoil/
This car....Is said to have a will of it's Own. Twisting its own body in rage...It accelerates on.
1978 Opel/Buick Isuzu - 3 races, IOE, Incredible Feats in Badge Engineering
http://i.imgur.com/m3KbADo.gif

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

We thought about a gantry, but the engine lift is easier because we already have it. It breaks up into pieces that fit in the RV storage bins and sets up in a few minutes.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

117

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Here is an electric 97 S10 on govdeals in GA


https://www.govdeals.com/index.cfm?fa=M … cctid=1422

Three Pedal Mafia: IOE > Overall
2010 - Wartburg (IOE) Trifecta of Crap :  2011 - SPAM-Alot Civic Wagovan 4WD.  A&D w/Spank @ Buttonwillow, IOE  :  2012 - The Boat (IOE) Dustbuster Wagovan 4WD
2013 - Rolls Royce, Boat, Wagovan, TR7: 2 IOEs, Org Choice,  C Class win here, another with Spank @ The Ridge

118

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:
jfbeam wrote:

At the end of the day, it's cheaper to just buy more batteries. Volt batteries are much cheaper than locomotives. :-) ('tho at some point, there's going to be too many to move around. Some might say we're there already.)


I was thinking about this, because it's true. Battery changes are a lot of back-breaking work, and if we have to swap out a bunch of 120-pound batteries every 30 minutes, then we will probably break something.

Introducing the amazing BACK SAVER 3000:

https://youtu.be/XP3DlsZjlR0

That took me 4 minutes in real time. I think that we can do a battery pack swap in less than ten minutes with two people working on it.

I should patent this process. Once that YouTube video goes viral, every Electrica 007 driver is going to want to do this.

Nice.  After doing it every 12 laps you guys will probably be able to get it done in 60 seconds  smile

Captain
Team Super Westerfield Bros.
#411
'93 Acura Integra

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

rmcdaniels wrote:

Ricky stopped by the shop tonight. I think we figured out charging.

We make a deal with a team with a big heavy V8 car, like the Tunachuckers. We can offer them some gas money, sexual favors, 3-bean salad, or whatever they're in to.

Mount railcar couplers to a class 3 hitch frame on the big car and to the front of the Electrica. Run 10 laps. Radio for in-flight refueling, then match up on the front straight and connect. Flip a switch to put the controller in full regen mode, 300 amps for 5-6 laps should top us off and they'll hardly notice us back there. Signal that we're full, disengage on the front straight, repeat.

I can see no way in which this carefully laid plan could ever fail.

Tunachuckers are absolutely on board with this plan.  Since I work for a railroad, I may even be able to source some Type H Tightlock rail couplers.  The downside is they weigh about 800 pounds apiece.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

120 (edited by mechimike 2017-03-21 07:09 AM)

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Actually, we could probably make our own coupler, and it wouldn't be that hard.  There's a type of rail coupler known as the "Spear and Funnel" coupler that would work quite well.  You mount a long cylindrical rod to one car, and a funnel-shaped thing to the other car, and when you want to couple, you basically just need to aim the rod somewhere in the opening of the funnel, and shove it in (sort of like sex, I guess.  We could paint the funnel pink and add balls to the side of the spear for yucks.)

Somehow need to figure out a locking mechanism to hold the coupler together.  Some sort of solenoid-actuated gizmo would probably work.  The tension would have to be taken off before uncoupling, presumably this could be done under light braking.  Put in a mechanical cable emergency as a backup release. 

Would also need to make the spear and funnel have some articulation to them to deal with curves.  Mount them on pivots with centering springs.  Easy-peasy.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … oupler.jpg

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Found another one of these for sale near me:

https://baltimore.craigslist.org/cto/6004302571.html

Been for sale for...awhile, apparently.

2008- 2010:  1966 Volvo 122, "Charlie"
2010-present:  1975 Ford LTD Landau...doesn't have a name?

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

That phallic coupler would be perfect, but I'm guessing that there is no chance of Jay approving that plan.

I see a lot of Electrica 007 ads like that, saying that only 10 were made and that it's valuable. I think that the sellers actually believe it. They made thousands of 007's. We bought ours for $1000 because it had a set of decent AGM batteries in it, which I sold for $500 to a car stereo shop.

Everybody grab your brooms, it's shenanigans!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

mechimike wrote:

Tunachuckers are absolutely on board with this plan.  Since I work for a railroad, I may even be able to source some Type H Tightlock rail couplers.  The downside is they weigh about 800 pounds apiece.

I believe I said "something like" a rail coupler. (we also don't have the compressed air to release them, or a "trunk monkey" to pull the pin) We could make a scaled down version out of aluminium. I also thought about an electromagnet hitch -- think security door, those things are ~200lb/sq.in. The best part of the EM route is no big spear pointing out the front/back of the cars, lightweight, and easily retractable.

CarolinaHondas.com / Duff Beer Civic #128
2014 Sebring - Class B (#1 of 7)
2016 Barber - Class B Win!

Re: "Racing" the Duff Beer Electric Car

Hola compadres!

Solution: NISSAN LEAF Quick Charging and full battery pack swapping every 70ish miles.

Get two salvaged NISSAN LEAFs from Copart with the Level 3 CHAdeMO DC "Quick/Fast Charging" and you'll get about 70 miles of charge in 15-20 minutes of charging.

Run it at Buttonwillow because it's the flattest track and there is a Level 3 CHAdeMO DC "Quick/Fast Charging" Charger at the Days Inn Lost Hills 15 minutes away off the 5. See at plugshare.com

Swap the 2 full batteries packs back and forth in the pits every 70ish miles. Judges love to see major components replaced on the hour.

Drive a truck with the second battery 15 minutes to the Days Inn, charge for 15-20 minutes, drive back and swap packs again. Repeat each hourish.

Nissan LEAFs are now only a few thousand dollars on Copart.

Sooo bueno!

eIOE trophy and EV glory will be yours!

Eeeeiiiiiyyyyyeeeeee!

Juan Fiero of Fiero Libre