1 (edited by RogueLeader 2016-10-12 04:24 PM)

Topic: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Ok so heres some history, this car is becoming more of a pain in my ass than the race car.....

Before we start at no point has the car ever overheated during any of these scenarios.

2010 Camaro SS LS3 V8 M6 72k miles. At 55k miles 3 years ago I had a collapsed valvespring, car was towed to dealer and top end parts replaced, drivers side headgasket replaced etc. Got the car back it was perfect. 1 year later the drives side catalytic converter failed (due to last years valve spring problem most likely) while being replaced I had coolant flushed. Car is great. Fast forward to last year radiator blows. I swap radiator out, fill up with coolant, burp the system (or so I think). Car is rarely driven until march of this year about 500 miles later and I am parked on a slope nose down and notice coolant leaking from overflow tank. I think its cracked so I replace it, Refill and go. Leak returns, I realize that I have overfilled coolant which was the problem in the first place and its coming out the overflow hole. I drain a bit, all seems good.

Park in garage one day I hear boiling coming from overflow tank? Strange but nothing leaking. Drive again next day, boiling again now a little less. Drive again boiling goes away, no loss of coolant. A month later boiling loud, coolant sprays out of tank overflow all over the place, big mess. I check no leaks, no nothing, I park car on slope in other direction making radiator highest point, I burp the system multiple times. All seems good, coolant cycling, fan turns on and off, etc. All seems fine. Come home one day and I notice faint boiling sound, but nowhere near what it ever was before. I let it go. Noticed it a few more times but always faint no leaking, coolant levels seem fine.

Fast forward to today, driving home and car never warms up, coolant gauge is full cold, digital gauge shows --- , oil temp gauge is full cold. Message shows on dash saying "AC Turning off Engine overheating". I pull over cooling fan is on, radiator is warm but not hot, engine is warm but not hot. Ran heater hot air coming out. Drive home and after 30 minutes of driving I am able to open radiator cap and not burn myself/boil over. Coolant overflow tank is low but not empty, radiator is full, upper radiator hose was soft (both when I pulled over and when I shut off). Oil does not have coolant in it. NO white smoke from exhaust, engine runs perfect no codes. I am able to touch both engine and radiator and not burn my hands.

Anyone have any idea what the hell is going on? I mean with coolant loss like that I'm thinking headgasket but it wasn't that much gone, and as I said no white smoke at all. No smell of coolant burning anywhere. Also something had to be cooling the motor, it is not even hot or overheating. Is there some sort of giant air bubble trapped in there?

I'm at a loss.....

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Thermostat stuck open?

My first thought is to replace the thermostat and the water pump.

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

When the message popped up saying "Engine Overheating," did it correspond to the temp gauge suddenly working again?

My LS3-powered G8 had an on and off problem where the temp gauge would never budge from cold. Sometimes in stop and go traffic it would suddenly shoot up to the overheating range along with a dash warning, and the fan would suddenly come on. Turned out I had a pinched wire in the harness leading to the temp sensor, probably happened when I swapped the engine. When there was no connection the ECM wouldn't see the high temps, and it would never turn the fan on. Then randomly when the loose wire contacted, the engine would suddenly realize it was overheating. Never a problem on the highway since the fan wasn't required.

If you want to check it, the LS3 temp sensor is located on the driver's side head, toward the front. Possible they damaged the wires when they took the head off. Or maybe it's a bad sensor. Or it's something completely different or a combination of issues.

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4 (edited by RogueLeader 2016-10-12 05:10 PM)

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

I ordered a thermostat and I'm gonna try that I was thinking the same thing.  Normally these small block water pumps make noise or leak through the weep hole when they fail, it doesn't seem to be leaking or making noise.

The temp gauge doesn't come back, the dash message contradicts the fact that the coolant temp is 0, also the oil temp was very low (did not show on gauge) which was strange.  Ambient temperature outside is about 63 degrees but I was on the highway with no traffic so the engine had good airflow over it the whole time.

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5 (edited by SpaceFrank 2016-10-12 05:28 PM)

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

It's weird that the temp gauge stays dead while the fan is active (and it gives you the message). Maybe the Camaro has multiple temp sensors. I'd look into that. I know there was an ECM change in mid-year 2009. (I had to swap the TB and oil pressure sensor from my original 2008 engine onto my new crate LS3 because the new ones wouldn't communicate with my ECM.) My new motor still only had one temp sensor, but maybe your car has one in the radiator or elsewhere.

The oil pressure showing 0 also makes me suspect sensor or wiring. If that was a real reading, I wouldn't expect the engine to stay running for long.

EDIT: Then again, the car has to be overheating or it wouldn't give you the warning message. You may have multiple issues here.

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6 (edited by RogueLeader 2016-10-12 05:43 PM)

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

The pressure is fine its the Oil temp showing 0.  I just pulled the dipstick the oil definitely was hot. 

I turned the car back on and got the same Overheating error still and the temperature for both coolant and oil still doesn't work.  Maybe its a combo of a bad sensor and bad thermostat.  The sensor is in the spot where you said, wiring looks fine, I moved it around just to be sure and its still good.  There is no sensor in the radiator, I swapped the radiator out and there was nothing on it.

Maybe I'll order a sensor as well.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Boiling noises are of worry, make sure the cap is good?

Make sure all the "air" lines are clear, long story oversimplified, recently a friend replaced a repeatably overheating  tahoe engine only to have the new one do same, turns out one small line on the rad was never punched.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Yep radiator cap was replaced when I did the radiator at the end of last year

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Oh, you have an oil temp gauge? Fancy. I might've been able to avoid my engine swap if the G8 had one of those... or if I were less of a hoon.

The oil temp reading could be sensor or wiring related, but I would also suspect the thermostat at this point.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Team Infinniti wrote:

Boiling noises are of worry, make sure the cap is good?

Make sure all the "air" lines are clear, long story oversimplified, recently a friend replaced a repeatably overheating  tahoe engine only to have the new one do same, turns out one small line on the rad was never punched.


This is a good place to check. LS motors have a small hose running from the front of the cylinder heads to a small port on the radiator. The purpose is to vent steam pockets in the heads. If your new radiator doesn't have that port opened up (not sure why that would happen), that might allow steam to build up and bubble out through the overflow?

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

RogueLeader wrote:

Yep radiator cap was replaced when I did the radiator at the end of last year

Does the overflow bottle have a pressurized cap?  It may be bad, too. You may also have a leak somewhere. If get a pressure tester and test the system and the cap.

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

SpaceFrank wrote:

Oh, you have an oil temp gauge? Fancy. I might've been able to avoid my engine swap if the G8 had one of those... or if I were less of a hoon.

The oil temp reading could be sensor or wiring related, but I would also suspect the thermostat at this point.

\


I've read that the oil temp gauge on the camaro is not an actual reading, but a computer estimate of the temp.  So if other temp sensors are malfunctioning, it would mis calculate the oil temp.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376900

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13 (edited by RogueLeader 2016-10-13 08:27 AM)

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Drdanteiii wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

Oh, you have an oil temp gauge? Fancy. I might've been able to avoid my engine swap if the G8 had one of those... or if I were less of a hoon.

The oil temp reading could be sensor or wiring related, but I would also suspect the thermostat at this point.

\


I've read that the oil temp gauge on the camaro is not an actual reading, but a computer estimate of the temp.  So if other temp sensors are malfunctioning, it would mis calculate the oil temp.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376900

This would make a whole lot of sense I never knew that before, but clearly must be the issue there.  I've stopped short of buying a new coolant temp sensor (I did get the t-stat) but both advance and autozone near my house have them in stock if I replace the thermostat and it still gives the error.

piper.gras wrote:
Team Infinniti wrote:

Boiling noises are of worry, make sure the cap is good?

Make sure all the "air" lines are clear, long story oversimplified, recently a friend replaced a repeatably overheating  tahoe engine only to have the new one do same, turns out one small line on the rad was never punched.


This is a good place to check. LS motors have a small hose running from the front of the cylinder heads to a small port on the radiator. The purpose is to vent steam pockets in the heads. If your new radiator doesn't have that port opened up (not sure why that would happen), that might allow steam to build up and bubble out through the overflow?

That hose is clear and working last I saw when I was trying to burp it.  However I will double check it to be sure.  I'm almost thinking maybe theres a blockage somewhere.

rlchv70 wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Yep radiator cap was replaced when I did the radiator at the end of last year

Does the overflow bottle have a pressurized cap?  It may be bad, too. You may also have a leak somewhere. If get a pressure tester and test the system and the cap.

Overflow is not pressurized.  So the t-stat comes in saturday so when I work on this sunday I will pressure test as well.  I mean at this point other than that and the sensor the last thing to replace is the water pump, but I've never seen a water pump fail without leaking out the weep hole all over the place as well.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Drdanteiii wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

Oh, you have an oil temp gauge? Fancy. I might've been able to avoid my engine swap if the G8 had one of those... or if I were less of a hoon.

The oil temp reading could be sensor or wiring related, but I would also suspect the thermostat at this point.

\


I've read that the oil temp gauge on the camaro is not an actual reading, but a computer estimate of the temp.  So if other temp sensors are malfunctioning, it would mis calculate the oil temp.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376900

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

RogueLeader wrote:
Drdanteiii wrote:
SpaceFrank wrote:

Oh, you have an oil temp gauge? Fancy. I might've been able to avoid my engine swap if the G8 had one of those... or if I were less of a hoon.

The oil temp reading could be sensor or wiring related, but I would also suspect the thermostat at this point.

\


I've read that the oil temp gauge on the camaro is not an actual reading, but a computer estimate of the temp.  So if other temp sensors are malfunctioning, it would mis calculate the oil temp.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=376900

This would make a whole lot of sense I never knew that before, but clearly must be the issue there.  I've stopped short of buying a new coolant temp sensor (I did get the t-stat) but both advance and autozone near my house have them in stock if I replace the thermostat and it still gives the error.

piper.gras wrote:
Team Infinniti wrote:

Boiling noises are of worry, make sure the cap is good?

Make sure all the "air" lines are clear, long story oversimplified, recently a friend replaced a repeatably overheating  tahoe engine only to have the new one do same, turns out one small line on the rad was never punched.


This is a good place to check. LS motors have a small hose running from the front of the cylinder heads to a small port on the radiator. The purpose is to vent steam pockets in the heads. If your new radiator doesn't have that port opened up (not sure why that would happen), that might allow steam to build up and bubble out through the overflow?

That hose is clear and working last I saw when I was trying to burp it.  However I will double check it to be sure.  I'm almost thinking maybe theres a blockage somewhere.

rlchv70 wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Yep radiator cap was replaced when I did the radiator at the end of last year

Does the overflow bottle have a pressurized cap?  It may be bad, too. You may also have a leak somewhere. If get a pressure tester and test the system and the cap.

Overflow is not pressurized.  So the t-stat comes in saturday so when I work on this sunday I will pressure test as well.  I mean at this point other than that and the sensor the last thing to replace is the water pump, but I've never seen a water pump fail without leaking out the weep hole all over the place as well.

A lot of new pumps are a plastic impeller pressed on a metal shaft. I have seen broken impellers and impellers spinning on the shaft.

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Wow that would suck, and I guess its possible that it failed.  Which would make sense, no coolant flowing past the sensor, therefore no temperature.  Plastic impeller that is scary, but not necessarily surprising.

My only thing is the previous coolant boiling problem the motor was definitely cooling fine never had a temp issue before.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

RogueLeader wrote:

Wow that would suck, and I guess its possible that it failed.  Which would make sense, no coolant flowing past the sensor, therefore no temperature.  Plastic impeller that is scary, but not necessarily surprising.

My only thing is the previous coolant boiling problem the motor was definitely cooling fine never had a temp issue before.

Exactly why I was suggesting a T-stat and a water pump. Been there done that on a number of VWs.

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

TrackGeeks_Chris wrote:
RogueLeader wrote:

Wow that would suck, and I guess its possible that it failed.  Which would make sense, no coolant flowing past the sensor, therefore no temperature.  Plastic impeller that is scary, but not necessarily surprising.

My only thing is the previous coolant boiling problem the motor was definitely cooling fine never had a temp issue before.

Exactly why I was suggesting a T-stat and a water pump. Been there done that on a number of VWs.

Yeah I'm pretty sure you're right.  Another thing is in my experience with cars with Dexcool if one thing goes everything goes (happened on my corvette).  I REALLY don't feel like swapping a water pump this weekend and probably won't get it in time, so I'll likely try the thermostat anyway, and when it doesn't work just park the car for a few weeks till I get the time to do it.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

it should be fairly simple to plug in obd2 scanner and monitor engine temperature from there.  it will show you the temperature that ecu sees.
to see if water pump is pumping, when cold open the radiator cap and leave it off. start the engine and let it get warm. after that, rev the engine a bit, to like 3k. you should see either some flow in there or the level of coolant move as you do that. DO not go to next step if this does not work.
to see the thermostat, with obd scanner as it comes to temperature. one of the hoses will be cold at start, but as it warms up both hoses will get to be warm at first and then hot. when that happens, check the scanner to see the temperature. should be about 83c. and both hoses should be hot around 87c.

all in all, sounds like water pump is done. Most likely, as mentioned above its plastic POS inside.

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20 (edited by RogueLeader 2016-10-13 03:29 PM)

Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

kakarot1232001 wrote:

it should be fairly simple to plug in obd2 scanner and monitor engine temperature from there.  it will show you the temperature that ecu sees.
to see if water pump is pumping, when cold open the radiator cap and leave it off. start the engine and let it get warm. after that, rev the engine a bit, to like 3k. you should see either some flow in there or the level of coolant move as you do that. DO not go to next step if this does not work.
to see the thermostat, with obd scanner as it comes to temperature. one of the hoses will be cold at start, but as it warms up both hoses will get to be warm at first and then hot. when that happens, check the scanner to see the temperature. should be about 83c. and both hoses should be hot around 87c.

all in all, sounds like water pump is done. Most likely, as mentioned above its plastic POS inside.

ECU is seeing high temp as its locking the fans on, either that or it assumes high temp because it sees no temp.  There is only 1 coolant sensor in the block.  The hoses were both hot but not that hot, and the upper hose was soft. 

The sensor is probably not bad but for $13 while I'm doing everything else I'll replace it anyway.  I think I'm not even gonna bother replacing the t-stat at this point and just use the new one on the new water pump.

EDIT: Good news is the impeller is metal so while something aint right in there at least I don't have to worry about bits of broken plastic stuck in my cooling system.

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

Ok so today I replaced the temp sensor, water pump, thermostat, radiator cap, and serpentine belt.  I started the car and was still getting the error, pulled the battery cable, re-attached, no error, everything seems to be functioning fine now.

I don't know what in particular was broken, but now other than the damn head gasket, everything is new!

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Re: 2010 Camaro SS weird cooling issue

go back to first principles! is the radiator has a cap (even sealed systems usually do) with engine cold, run the car with the cap OFF. obviously system should be full. as the car warms up, the coolant will remain cold until enough heat present to open the thermostat, then warm/hot water will drift in... you can (1) feel it with your finger (2) see it move.

the car will cool just fine with the cap off. pressure raises boiling point etc but at an idle, seriously, etc.

once warmed up, revving the engine a bit should cause noticable flow in the tank. if you are lucky enough with a rad setup that lets you see coolant flow. some crossflow tanks arent that visible.

also as it warms up from cold, feel around. the heads get warm first, block second, top hose, radiator tanks, lower hose, etc, in that order as hot coolant starts. keep in mind how the thing is supposed to work 'on paper' and verify it, in metal.