Topic: Which Car?

I am considering building a car to go road racing.
And I enjoy the challenge of doing things cheap.

I like being creative, and Lemons looks to be my kind of crowd, so I'd love to build something whacky to join in the fun.
But then once I understand how much a $500 Lemons car really costs
in both time and money, I have to ask if  building something that will get laughs for one race is worth it.

All my cars have been street cars as well as race cars.
I just bought a cheap 1971 Pinto that has no smog check issues for California that I was planning to use.
I have existing engines in my junk pile, I have a 5.0 explorer to swap in if I want to be boring,
a twin-turbo 12A rotary that was built for my jetboat, A SHO v8, a Volvo T5 from a parts car, (top choice), and a 3.0 V6 Duratec
from a t-boned jag, A spare Suzuki 1.0L 3-cylinder from my MG project, as well as a subaru 2.5,
and a subaru 3.3 I can use.   

The Pinto seems a straightforward choice, but I also have a VW Bug idea that would be street legal and more whacky yet reasonable,
as compared to my welding two volvo wagons together idea...

What I'd really like to do is build a hybrid electric Prius-parts vehicle. It is way over $500 to do this,
but it is more interesting to me than anything.

And finally is Lemons really the right race?  Is just open track days enough fun for this former drag racer?

Re: Which Car?

I just happen to know where there's a caged Prius in SoCal waiting for a new owner....Jus sayin.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Which Car?

cheseroo wrote:

I just happen to know where there's a caged Prius in SoCal waiting for a new owner....Jus sayin.

I appreciate the lead, but I don't want a prius itself, but build something that uses prius drivetrain parts.
I've already done it with my 'indy one' car, which isn't Lemons legal.   But while I'm posting, the rules don't allow 3-wheels,
but does it require 4 wheels must be in a rectangle?   smile

Here is a 4 wheel 'vehicle'..
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTa3fy0CNWSnZ5WejAttSErmLF1-2sHVaIrnCWK3sns5L004_Rn

Re: Which Car?

There is also a Lemons race-ready Humber Super Snipe available in Los Angeles for only  $1399.
It is also street legal, so you can drive it home today.

Sure it's slow, but how else can you have so much Lemons fun for so little money?

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Which Car?

nimblemotorsports wrote:

...does it require 4 wheels must be in a rectangle?

If you can find something that was mass-produced and legal for US highway use at the time of its manufacture, as also required by the rules, that was originally equipped with four wheels in a nonstandard configuration, then by all means please make the case for it to Lemons HQ (preferably before spending any money on it).

My guess, though, is that they'd quickly find a way to say no to a Litestar/Pulse.

http://auctionsamerica.com/images/lots/AF12/AF12_r997_02.jpg

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Which Car?

mharrell wrote:

My guess, though, is that they'd quickly find a way to say no to a Litestar/Pulse.

Where on earth do you keep finding these obscure vehicles (and I use the term loosely)?

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Which Car?

Pinto is great, I say put the 12A in it for maximum "DOMINATION®" But really the volvo T5 in a pinto would be pretty slick.

THEN, Do the hybrid bug. Batteries in the frunk engine in back "perfect" 50/50 weight distribution.

For bonus points and a shot at heroic fix, bring one of the other engines and do a full swap over the weekend when the 12A kasplodes!!

Lemons beats track day for bang for the buck and fun especially in junk cars. Unless you LIKE waving people by the entire track day.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Which Car?

nimblemotorsports wrote:
cheseroo wrote:

I just happen to know where there's a caged Prius in SoCal waiting for a new owner....Jus sayin.

I appreciate the lead, but I don't want a prius itself, but build something that uses prius drivetrain parts.
I've already done it with my 'indy one' car, which isn't Lemons legal.   But while I'm posting, the rules don't allow 3-wheels,
but does it require 4 wheels must be in a rectangle?   smile

Here is a 4 wheel 'vehicle'..
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTa3fy0CNWSnZ5WejAttSErmLF1-2sHVaIrnCWK3sns5L004_Rn

Has to be a "mass-produced, four-wheeled vehicles legal for US highway use at the time of their manufacture." So you find a mass produced 4 wheeled car laid out like that....yea you won't.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

9 (edited by -SDR- 2017-01-01 10:20 AM)

Re: Which Car?

If you would like a little Pinto know-how just ask.  Done all sorts of racing with them, including here.


Bill

2017 NJMP #24 Team Super Grover, DNF, MF, WTF.........
2016 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

10 (edited by -SDR- 2017-01-01 10:22 AM)

Re: Which Car?

mharrell wrote:
nimblemotorsports wrote:

...does it require 4 wheels must be in a rectangle?

If you can find something that was mass-produced and legal for US highway use at the time of its manufacture, as also required by the rules, that was originally equipped with four wheels in a nonstandard configuration, then by all means please make the case for it to Lemons HQ (preferably before spending any money on it).

My guess, though, is that they'd quickly find a way to say no to a Litestar/Pulse.

http://auctionsamerica.com/images/lots/AF12/AF12_r997_02.jpg


Appears to be part Honda GoldWing.....

2017 NJMP #24 Team Super Grover, DNF, MF, WTF.........
2016 Thompson Motor Speedway #36 Sabrina Duncan's Revenge, IOE Trophy, 5th Place 'C' Class 1977 Ford Pinto
2009 Stafford Motor Speedway #16 Team Teflon, 11th Place (overall) 1997 Saturn SL2

11 (edited by nimblemotorsports 2017-01-01 11:51 AM)

Re: Which Car?

Has to be a "mass-produced, four-wheeled vehicles legal for US highway use at the time of their manufacture."

There are plenty of kitcars that alter the wheelbase of 'mass produced' cars, those not allowed?   A Limo is certainly stretched,
some of the Lemons contraptions I've seen don't look mass-produced. 

It isn't my race so rules can be whatever but I do enjoy trying to be too clever. smile     
This is why I build street legal cars, so I'm not hostage to the whims of any particular race organization, and Lemons is very whimsical. smile

The VW idea would make it similiar to the Tango:

http://www.commutercars.com/images/6a00d83451e0d569e20134851cdae9970c-800wi.jpg?crc=66206187 https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3238/3885654264_e0bf6aa361_z.jpg?zz=1

Re: Which Car?

CowDriver wrote:

Where on earth do you keep finding these obscure vehicles (and I use the term loosely)?

Oh, that's nothing. Believe it or not, I know a guy who has owned not just one, but two, Humber Super Snipes.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Which Car?

mharrell wrote:
CowDriver wrote:

Where on earth do you keep finding these obscure vehicles (and I use the term loosely)?

Oh, that's nothing. Believe it or not, I know a guy who has owned not just one, but two, Humber Super Snipes.

One is happenstance.   Two is just coincidence.   Three is when you should start worrying.

"I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it!"
IOE winner in the Super Snipe -- Buttonwillow 2012
IOE winner in Super Snipe v2.0 -- Buttonwillow 2016
"Every Super Snipe in Lemons has won an IOE!"

Re: Which Car?

nimblemotorsports wrote:

...some of the Lemons contraptions I've seen don't look mass-produced.

It has generally, but not universally, been the case that a fair amount of modification is allowed as long as the underlying frame and/or unibody and/or whatever is that of a mass-produced, US-legal, etc. vehicle and the modifications still result in something with sturdy fenders, doors, and so forth. Remember, under Rule 2.1, "Individual waivers may be granted; just don't ask about Peterbilts, Zambonis, sidecars, or golf carts again. We already said no." Please note, however, that I am not a Lemons tech inspector, so it's not my call to say what will and what won't be accepted.

nimblemotorsports wrote:

It isn't my race so rules can be whatever but I do enjoy trying to be too clever.

Lemons HQ likes clever, but they purposely keep a degree of arbitrary absolutism in the rules so they always have the final say on "too clever." If you eventually find yourself arguing in favor of a wilfully contrived interpretation of the rules in order to do something they don't think you should be doing, you ain't gonna win that argument. That's why it's best to seek clarification or a waiver before spending time and money on something iffy.

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Which Car?

mharrell wrote:

That's why it's best to seek clarification or a waiver before spending time and money on something iffy.

Good advice.

Re: Which Car?

Generally speaking, kit cars are a "No" from Lemons HQ. They might make an exception for someone who is demonstrably capable of building a safe race car. I believe a veteran team got the OK on a "Laser 917" kit car, though I don't think they ever started work on it. That's a team that has run three or four very well-built cars in terms of safety gear and I think there was substantial back-and-forth on what Lemons HQ wanted to see to make it meet their safety standards.

Eric Rood
Lemons Contributor for www.roadkill.com
"Like" my page on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRustyHub
Follow me on Twitter: @therustyhub

17 (edited by mharrell 2017-01-02 03:07 PM)

Re: Which Car?

therood wrote:

Generally speaking, kit cars are a "No" from Lemons HQ.

But that Bradley GT in 2010 was so magnificent!

http://murileemartin.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/hottamale002.jpg

1982 MG Metro 1300: IOE 2015 Pacific Northworst GP, Longest Distance 2010 Cd'L Box Wine Country Classic
1980 KV Mini 1: Worst of Show and Fright Pig Supremo 2009 Concours d'Lemons
1978 H Special: Second-Round Elimination 2010 Lemons Pinewood Derby at Sears Pointless
1967 SAAB 96: IOE 2012 Pacific Northworst GP

Re: Which Car?

I want that Laser 917 so bad but fdlks;gnvfksd;fneas I need to sell a couple kidneys first and sacrifice a testicle to the Gods of Parsh.

19 (edited by Guildenstern 2017-01-03 08:21 PM)

Re: Which Car?

But the Bradley is just technically a Beetle under there isn't it? Basically the same as the S-10 under 3PM's Boat.

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Which Car?

So I couldn't put a Bradley GT body on a Prius chassis, moving the drivetrain to the rear wheels, and changing the 4-cyl prius engine with a sho V8, and maybe a second prius transaxle (no engine) in front for awd?  smile

http://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/5908576763.html
https://images.craigslist.org/00R0R_eaYU7kNKR7c_600x450.jpg

Re: Which Car?

If you move beyond the dream stage into actually turning whatever into reality, first thing you will need to do is check with Lemons HQ as all your work will be for naught if you show up with something that not only fails tech but can't be fixed to pass.  The Honda V6 stuffed in the back of the Baja bug looks to be quite the handful to drive and has already suffered one big loss of control hit so I can see where your plan is a winning one. 

Removing the OEM crush structure/roof in a new build will likely be an instant/no fix fail.

1990 RX7 "Mazdarita" 
1994 Jaguar XJ12 (Winner C-Class 2013 Sears Pointless)
1964 Sunbeam Imp (IOE 2013 Sears Pointless)
1980 Rover SD1 (I Got Screwed 2014 Return of Lemonites) (Sold -> Houston.  Gone and forgotten)

Re: Which Car?

Looks like I'll stick with the Pinto and the T5 Volvo engine.   Honestly didn't think the OEM 71 Pinto was safe at all,
and we know they will explode if you tap the rear bumper... 

What do y'all think of this theme, BUSHED Half-Baked Pinto Beans:

https://thefinallap.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/bush_472.jpg

Or I could go with my drag racing roots and build a Bob Glidden Pinto, call it 'Bob and Glide'

https://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/fl0111/fl0111-103900/images/fl0111-103900_2.jpg

And then it occured to combine both of them, and call it a Mixed Metaphor because I like that phrase and it seems to fit Lemons.

Re: Which Car?

NICE!

Mistake By The Lake Racing (MBTL) https://www.facebook.com/groups/MBTLracing/
88 Thunderbird "What's the word? Thunderbird!", "What's the Price? Thirty Twice!"
A&D: 2014 Sebrings at Sebring (NSF), 2014 NJMP2 Jurassic Park (SpeedyCop), 2012 Summit Point J30 (PiNuts)

Re: Which Car?

If I buy a car for 500$ how much do we have to invest in it to be an average team and not someone who will be laughed at the race? Is this even possible with a car in this price range?

25

Re: Which Car?

We laugh a lot with average teams, so not sure that is possible.

How much you have to spend to get your car ready depends on how much work you can do yourself.  The majority of what you will spend is on safety.  So if you can build a cage from scratch its cheaper if you can't bend but can weld it you save some money, if you have to pay someone to build it all you pay more, and that depends on where you live.  Also kind of expect everything to cost more than the car.  the seat, a set of tires, it all adds up.  Been a while since I built mine and I got a real good deal on the cage but seems most estimate between 3-5K to really complete a build.

Racing 4 Nickels - 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera
2011 SHOWROOM-SCHLOCK SHOOTOUT  IOE Winner
2012 The Chubba Cheddar Enduro Class C winner
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